You can get an idea of what it might have been like, although at a much more modern, safe, and smaller scale by exploring the Chungking Mansions in Kowloon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chungking_Mansions
The first half of the movie gives a really great image of the Chungking atmosphere, so definitely check it out. I highly recommend it on its own narrative strengths too of course.
A successfully backed Kickstarter project for a 2nd edition of the book City of Darkness, which features really great documentary photographs of Kowloon Walled City:
Wow. I bought the book on the used market after reading about it -- I think here on HN, in fact. Probably the most expensive book I've bought so far!
They're selling prints on their website, and I'd love to get one, but they're charging 200 (two oh oh) GBP for a medium sized print which is preposterous, or in any event way out of my comfort zone. Too bad.
PS: If you enjoy City of Darkness, you may enjoy the film Dark Days (different subject, similar theme). Much like Kowloon Walled City, I've never seen anything else quite like it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Days_%28film%29
I've been fascinated by KWC since the first time I saw Bloodsport. I dug the depictions [1] in Gibson's bridge trilogy too.
There's something that draws me to that kind of organic human architecture whether it's Kowloon, Brazil's favelas [2], Torre David in Venezuela [3] or Ponte Tower [4] in Johannesburg.
NOTE: there is actually a lot more content on that blog than the (bad) navigation suggests. If you look at the right-hand "monthly archives" column, it looks like there is only 12 monthly headings going back to Sept. 2011 - but if you manually plug in a URL like:
I got a used copy (softcover / not in super condition) for $70 several years ago and the price has only gone up. Astounded to see that pristine copies are now going for $800, with hardbacks north of $1,000.
My friend's older brother had a flat (an apartment) in Ponte in the mid-80's. A lot of students from Wits Tek hung out there, which (to a wide-eyed teenager like me) made for parties more incredible than I could've imagined. At the time that flat seemed to epitomise the whole gothic rock thing I was into at the time. Fond memories.
Here's the full architectural rendering from the book they mention – they seem to have adapted part of it for their splash page. You can definitely sink quite a bit of time looking at what's going on in each room.
The kowloon Walled City is a park right now, drop by if you have chance to visit Hong Kong. The rich description and historical display there is simply awesome. And don't forget to check out the delicious dim sum stall nearby. ;)
I also recommend the already mentioned book City of Darkness and movie Chungking Express. Additional Jackie Pullinger‘s books "Crack In The Wall: Life & Death in Kowloon Walled City" (http://amzn.to/1nNKkuq) and "Chasing the Dragon" (http://amzn.to/1kd9zWc) are worth a read.
99% PI is what introduced Kowloon. The show did an amazing job of conveying just how special that place was. It is an great pod cast that captures the majesty of day to day design and architecture.
It is unfortunate that the images don't work on the episode page.
I arrived in Hong Kong in 1996, too late to see the KWC but I would certainly have taken the risk to experience it had it still be there.
Hong Kong is still filled with weird little wonders that you can only uncover by chance if you take the time to look around and explore. My favourite pastime is to lose myself in the city, taking every little back-alley, climbing stairs, slopes, paths, trails that I can find.
I'm always reminded though that these little hidden treasures have a tendency to disappear fast here, without a trace. Conservation of heritage is unfortunately not a big thing in Hong Kong, although it has gotten a little better.
Yes, that re-shaped the area by making it easy to travel along that steep slope. There are lots of elevated foot paths as well in Hong Kong, interconnecting buildings with each-others, usually going from shopping mall to shopping mall in a dizzy labyrinth of walkways and escalators.
In Hong Kong, pragmatism tends to win over other considerations. Making things convenient is a build-in feature of the culture.
If you mean with respect to crime, then no. Hong Kong has one of the world's lowest crime rates and what violent crime does exist, is typically targeted (e.g. organized crime, domestic disputes).
For example, the intentional homicide rate is 0.2 per 100,000 people, vs 4.8 in the US. [1]
I have lived here for many years, and I can't think of any area that i would feel uncomfortable going at any hour of the day or night.
I feel so safe in Hong Kong that, by comparison, I feel unsafe almost everywhere else.
Even though local people bemoan the rise of petty crime and violence compared to the old days, it's still not an issue and I feel safe going anywhere, at any time of the day or night. There is no street violence, no street gangs (although there is organised crime of which the Triads are the most famous of course), not even much graffiti (there is a bit of it, but it's mostly artistic/social expression from underground artists rather than used for turf wars).
Actually I have not even ever seen anyone jump over a turnstile to avoid paying a fare.
I grew up in Hong Kong and way back in the early 90s, if you hit the MTR (the underground/metro/subway system) turnstile hard enough with your thigh as you were walking through, it would give way, so you could basically travel for free. No jumping required, which might explain your observation!
I think they've changed them now, and I think it only ever applied to the turnstiles on the Kowloon side of the line.
I don't know why, but I think that people that are fascinated by Kowloon and the like would really enjoy the movie Samsara. Really, I think everyone one earth would enjoy it.
"Some of the connections made are too obvious, like following images of ammunition with a portrait of a severely wounded veteran, while others are completely elusive. Shots of the devastation Katrina left behind in New Orleans are beautifully spooky, but does it say anything useful to follow that with images of Versailles? The makers of 'Samsara' want to free our minds, but their technique makes us their prisoners more often than not." ~ Kenneth Turan
When I was 20 years old, I worked in the Kowloon Walled City at its height. I've recently been back to Hong Kong to see it now replaced by a park and an excavated, restored garrison (they did a great job). In the original KWC, the garrison courtyard -- I had thought it might be a temple -- was never built on, making a small "hole" in the middle of the city. I remember the original garrison walls. Now they're all that's left! It's a very strange experience going back.
- It was a horrible, hellish place that desperately needed to be destroyed. The people living there were in pretty desperate straits, many of them illegal immigrants trying to escape China.
- There was solidarity but little sense of community I think. It was everyone for himself.
- I honestly do not know how the plumbing in the place worked, but expect the answer could well have been "not at all". Most people did not spend a lot of time there: you couldn't, it was too horrible inside.
Fun fact. The street-facing shops of the KWC, all the way around it, were dominated by unlicensed Chinese dentists trying to hawk their services in Hong Kong against the law. They all had skeletons and skulls in the shop windows with their dental handiwork applied to show off their dental mojo, completely oblivious to the irony of doing this.
I lived in HK during this period, and the only three times I visited KWC was for dental work.... intense place... like mongkok or samshuipo on on crystal meth... I've been in places worse, but it was not a place for the feint of heart...
"many of them illegal immigrants trying to escape China."
I'm guessing the illegal immigrants were in KWC because Hong Kong's jurisdiction over KWC was ambiguous; and in Hong Kong, police regularly checked people for identification cards, and so illegal immigrants would be detected easily and would risk deportation outside KWC. Is this correct in explaining why illegal immigrants congregate in KWC?
The reasons why KWC came to by are a bit complicated. Essentially, the mainland Chinese garrison sited there was granted an exemption to the UK's 99-year lease, which means that Britain and its Hong Kong agents did not have authority over the city. A fuller history is here:
"At the Convention of Peking on the 9th June 1898 Britain obtained the New Territories under a ninety-nine-year lease. There was one exception, Chinese officials could remain in the Walled City, as long as it was not inconsistent with the military requirements of the defence of Hong Kong This was of no consequence to the British — until the following year when local peasants rebelled, and attacked colonial traders in the new region. The then Governor of Hong Kong, Sir Henry Blake, asked the Viceroy of Canton for protection and requested the Chinese customs post in the Kowloon Walled City be closed down. The viceroy sent in 600 troops, half of which, unbeknown to Blake, moved into the Walled City. Deadlines for their removal were not met. Their presence was deemed inconsistent to the military requirements of the defence of Hong Kong and British troops were sent in to remove them.
This military intervention would set the stage for eighty years of political argument, and claims and counterclaims over actual jurisdiction. In the meantime the population of the Walled City continued to grow, all but ungoverned and outlawed becoming, in effect, the tiniest city-state in the world. Theoretically controlled by the British, technically owned by China, and actually governed by whoever wielded power within such an anarchistic enclave — invariably gangsters.
Throughout the rest of the City’s history various confrontations have taken place. The Japanese, who occupied Hong Kong from 1942-45, must have feared whatever lay within the Walled City’s murky interior, and attempted to dismantle it. They achieved little, except pulling down the old exterior garrison wall. In 1947 the British tried to demolish the now wall-less walled City and build a park. The Chinese rejected this, claiming it remained the official residence for their representative. In 1948 the British did evict 2,000 squatters from the surrounding area and demolished their huts — the rioting that followed ensured they didn’t try any more colonial re-development in the area.
1966 saw the Cultural Revolution in China and the communist flag was briefly raised in the city. Official attempts to remove it were met with more rioting. British policy came to regard Walled City as something of a hornets nest — best not to be kicked unless absolutely necessary."
55 comments
[ 4.8 ms ] story [ 120 ms ] threadI first visited in 2010 and it was nowhere as gritty as seen in the movie, but also much safer I guess!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1060791749/city-of-dark...
They're selling prints on their website, and I'd love to get one, but they're charging 200 (two oh oh) GBP for a medium sized print which is preposterous, or in any event way out of my comfort zone. Too bad.
PS: If you enjoy City of Darkness, you may enjoy the film Dark Days (different subject, similar theme). Much like Kowloon Walled City, I've never seen anything else quite like it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Days_%28film%29
Anybody else have this problem?
There's something that draws me to that kind of organic human architecture whether it's Kowloon, Brazil's favelas [2], Torre David in Venezuela [3] or Ponte Tower [4] in Johannesburg.
1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idoru
2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favela
3: http://www.theguardian.com/cities/gallery/2014/feb/12/la-tor...
4: http://vimeo.com/51295174
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebbeus_Woods
http://historyofourworld.wordpress.com/2009/11/18/lebbeus-wo...
http://architizer.com/blog/lebbeus-woods-sfmoma/
http://lebbeuswoods.wordpress.com/
Very, very interesting work and commentary.
NOTE: there is actually a lot more content on that blog than the (bad) navigation suggests. If you look at the right-hand "monthly archives" column, it looks like there is only 12 monthly headings going back to Sept. 2011 - but if you manually plug in a URL like:
http://lebbeuswoods.wordpress.com/2008/11/
... you can see there is a lot more content there...
http://cooper.edu/architecture/events/lebbeus-woods-celebrat...
http://lebbeuswoods.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/the-design-game...
And if you have the money, New City is well worth the price.
http://www.amazon.com/The-New-City-Lebbeus-Woods/dp/06717681...
I got a used copy (softcover / not in super condition) for $70 several years ago and the price has only gone up. Astounded to see that pristine copies are now going for $800, with hardbacks north of $1,000.
Villa is the equivalent of Favela. The villa 31 is the most prominent example in Argentina.
http://www.deconcrete.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Kowloon...
One of the best documentaries IMHO is the following 4 part series from 1989 which shows the everyday life in KWC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lby9P3ms11w
I also recommend the already mentioned book City of Darkness and movie Chungking Express. Additional Jackie Pullinger‘s books "Crack In The Wall: Life & Death in Kowloon Walled City" (http://amzn.to/1nNKkuq) and "Chasing the Dragon" (http://amzn.to/1kd9zWc) are worth a read.
Here a Postmortem on Shenmue I & II and some brief explanation of the generation of the Kowloon scenario.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=4J...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenmue_II
It is unfortunate that the images don't work on the episode page.
Hong Kong is still filled with weird little wonders that you can only uncover by chance if you take the time to look around and explore. My favourite pastime is to lose myself in the city, taking every little back-alley, climbing stairs, slopes, paths, trails that I can find.
I'm always reminded though that these little hidden treasures have a tendency to disappear fast here, without a trace. Conservation of heritage is unfortunately not a big thing in Hong Kong, although it has gotten a little better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central%E2%80%93Mid-Levels_esca...
In Hong Kong, pragmatism tends to win over other considerations. Making things convenient is a build-in feature of the culture.
For example, the intentional homicide rate is 0.2 per 100,000 people, vs 4.8 in the US. [1]
I have lived here for many years, and I can't think of any area that i would feel uncomfortable going at any hour of the day or night.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...
Even though local people bemoan the rise of petty crime and violence compared to the old days, it's still not an issue and I feel safe going anywhere, at any time of the day or night. There is no street violence, no street gangs (although there is organised crime of which the Triads are the most famous of course), not even much graffiti (there is a bit of it, but it's mostly artistic/social expression from underground artists rather than used for turf wars).
Actually I have not even ever seen anyone jump over a turnstile to avoid paying a fare.
I think they've changed them now, and I think it only ever applied to the turnstiles on the Kowloon side of the line.
A weird place.
"Some of the connections made are too obvious, like following images of ammunition with a portrait of a severely wounded veteran, while others are completely elusive. Shots of the devastation Katrina left behind in New Orleans are beautifully spooky, but does it say anything useful to follow that with images of Versailles? The makers of 'Samsara' want to free our minds, but their technique makes us their prisoners more often than not." ~ Kenneth Turan
I know this isn't reddit, but AMA.
What kind of work were you doing there?
Do you think it was a positive place given the real world we live in?
Do you think it should have been knocked down?
Realistically was the sense of community strong?
How did the kids inside go? Did they just leave for walks or did they spend lots of time inside.
- There was solidarity but little sense of community I think. It was everyone for himself.
- I honestly do not know how the plumbing in the place worked, but expect the answer could well have been "not at all". Most people did not spend a lot of time there: you couldn't, it was too horrible inside.
Fun fact. The street-facing shops of the KWC, all the way around it, were dominated by unlicensed Chinese dentists trying to hawk their services in Hong Kong against the law. They all had skeletons and skulls in the shop windows with their dental handiwork applied to show off their dental mojo, completely oblivious to the irony of doing this.
I'm guessing the illegal immigrants were in KWC because Hong Kong's jurisdiction over KWC was ambiguous; and in Hong Kong, police regularly checked people for identification cards, and so illegal immigrants would be detected easily and would risk deportation outside KWC. Is this correct in explaining why illegal immigrants congregate in KWC?
http://www.tofu-magazine.net/newVersion/pages/KWC.html
"At the Convention of Peking on the 9th June 1898 Britain obtained the New Territories under a ninety-nine-year lease. There was one exception, Chinese officials could remain in the Walled City, as long as it was not inconsistent with the military requirements of the defence of Hong Kong This was of no consequence to the British — until the following year when local peasants rebelled, and attacked colonial traders in the new region. The then Governor of Hong Kong, Sir Henry Blake, asked the Viceroy of Canton for protection and requested the Chinese customs post in the Kowloon Walled City be closed down. The viceroy sent in 600 troops, half of which, unbeknown to Blake, moved into the Walled City. Deadlines for their removal were not met. Their presence was deemed inconsistent to the military requirements of the defence of Hong Kong and British troops were sent in to remove them.
This military intervention would set the stage for eighty years of political argument, and claims and counterclaims over actual jurisdiction. In the meantime the population of the Walled City continued to grow, all but ungoverned and outlawed becoming, in effect, the tiniest city-state in the world. Theoretically controlled by the British, technically owned by China, and actually governed by whoever wielded power within such an anarchistic enclave — invariably gangsters.
Throughout the rest of the City’s history various confrontations have taken place. The Japanese, who occupied Hong Kong from 1942-45, must have feared whatever lay within the Walled City’s murky interior, and attempted to dismantle it. They achieved little, except pulling down the old exterior garrison wall. In 1947 the British tried to demolish the now wall-less walled City and build a park. The Chinese rejected this, claiming it remained the official residence for their representative. In 1948 the British did evict 2,000 squatters from the surrounding area and demolished their huts — the rioting that followed ensured they didn’t try any more colonial re-development in the area.
1966 saw the Cultural Revolution in China and the communist flag was briefly raised in the city. Official attempts to remove it were met with more rioting. British policy came to regard Walled City as something of a hornets nest — best not to be kicked unless absolutely necessary."
http://randomwire.com/kowloon-walled-city-rebuilt-in-japan/