It's going to be interesting to watch how this competes with Blackboard.
Anecdotally, it definitely looks like Blackboard has an almost monopoly on class room management stuff. Since the education market is so slow to adopt new things, Google definitely has their work cut out for them.
With that being said, Blackboard definitely leaves a lot to be desired, and with classes supposedly going online more and more, the market is definitely ripe for some disruption.
One thing that this has going for it against Blackboard is that many universities already use Google Apps to manage their student email/accounts, so it should be a relatively smooth transition to enable access for students and teachers. As a student I would love to never have to use Blackboard again. Its UX is just awful and having a Google integrated solution seems like it would be a lot less hassle for everyone involved.
"Blackboard's market share among universities slipped to about 45 percent last year, down 26 points from six years before." And I question whether their share was really that high or just that high amongst universities that purchased a commercial LMS (as opposed to having a home-grown one, free & open source one, or no school-wide LMS at all).
These tools and services look very promising but Google needs to be clear and transparent about what data it captures when rolling out this service.
Is it tracking and recording the usage and behaviour of teachers and students who use these tools? What does it use this data for? ("we use this data to improve services" says absolutely nothing.)
If you start using these tools in your student years, then continue to use your email and Google apps into adult life, can you imagine the phenomenal amount of data Google will have captured and recorded about you?
> Google also won’t even use the data that moves through the platform or display ads in Classroom, either, in accordance with its new policy announced last week.
They say they don't collect information for advertising purposes, that doesn't mean they don't collect the information for tracking purposes, it just a game of words they have there in the privacy statement.
That's still a bit too vague for me. What does it mean? That they won't use the content being created in the system in any way? Does it mean that when a student signs into Classroom with their Google account, Google won't track or record the sites, apps and pages they use? Does Google anonymise any data it captures? Or does it tie your activity to your account? When Google says "Google Apps for Education users own their data" does that mean I can remove all my history of activity and sites visited from Google's servers?
I know lots of Hacker news readers consider this a complete non-issue, but I don't think these are unreasonable questions to ask of a company that has far greater oversight of people's online behaviour than anyone else.
The answer seems like it will be no since they're enabling it for Apps for Education customers. For customers outside of that, I'm not sure, but even so Apps for Education is going to be the majority using this.
I feel like I'm watching this happen in slow motion with Google Keep. I've been using it since its release for transient stuff like shopping lists, mostly because it has a nice Android lock screen widget.
It's over a year old now, and it's only received very minor updates. Still can't even reorder notes in the web interface. I won't be devastated if/when it goes away, but it just seems like a huge missed opportunity for Google to actually put some effort into this kind of application.
Google Keep is a frontend to a Doc in Drive, and is integrated with the Google Now reminders system, so it's not an experiment to wither, it's closely tied to core offerings. It replaced _something_ that was standalone that died because it didn't "get with the program".
They just added searchable text in images, I think that's a sign they're still working on it. I just think Keep is meant to be kept simple and not take over Evernote.
> It's over a year old now, and it's only received very minor updates.
wat. There was a major update less than a month ago, adding:
-Searchable images: Find printed text in images
-List settings: Set where new or checked items go
-Trash: Keep deleted notes just a little longer
-Yellow action bar
-Updated slide-out menu with multi-account selection
-Make copies of notes
-Action bar changes color with notes
A few months before that was:
-Sleek new design: many of your favorite things from the -Android app are now on the web – full color notes, text that scales to fit the note, and a custom font just for Keep
-Rearrange items in lists: keep everything in order, all the time
-Improved search: finding the note you’re looking for is easier than ever
-Navigation drawer: quickly switch between your active and archived notes, or get a custom view of all of your notes with reminders
(Apologies for the editorializing, I literally just searched for articles about Keep updates and copied the changelogs over)
> Still can't even reorder notes in the web interface.
I just opened up the Keep web app and clicking and dragging works fine for me to re-order notes.
I never bothered with Keep as it seemed like overkill for 99% of the time.
I use Tasks in the Gmail interface and have an app which syncs to my phone constantly. Its more of a list app rather than fancy colours and photo taking.
Considering it is in direct conflict with Keep, I've often wondered which will get the chop first.
I agree with the support issue,a lot of google products even paid ones barely have any support(unless you're a big corp customer). If i cant get in touch with the team and ask questions,i'm not going to buy the saas.
I need to show this video to some teachers I know, just so I can count how many turn white seeing a room full of kids using laptops with the screens turned away from the teacher's view.
<<A response from someone who works in education.>>
This actually is a HUGE deal for teachers and schools, and it will provide a LOT of value.
One of the largest frustrations teachers have with going paperless is managing the workflow of assignments. Learning management systems like Blackboard or Moodle were often a feasible solution to this issue, since teachers could share files for download and students could upload finished assignments.
Google Apps for Education products (namely Google Docs) disrupted this. Because Google Docs allows teachers to have access to student work (collaborative editing), it allows him/her to give feedback and support throughout the entire creative process.
That's a very big deal, and it makes the [upload/download] features in Blackboard or Moodle less useful. Plugins that allowed access to Google Drive folders were built for both of those tools (as well as others- like Schoology, Edmodo, Haiku, Canvas, etc.) but they stopped short when it came to managing the workflow of creating, sharing, organizing, and collecting collaborative files in the Google Apps ecosystem.
In 2011, Hapara [ed tech company, graduated iK12 accelerator, http://hapara.com/] entered the scene. Their tool laid on top of Google Apps products and streamlined the process of managing classrooms by giving teachers or administrators a bird's eye view of all student work- their files, recent activity, etc. That workflow problem was solved.
However, not every school is willing to pay for the advanced features of Hapara- so there still wasn't a free solution that every teacher could access. Some of the team at the NY-based school charter network New Visions for Public Schools built and released some of the scripts they were using to manage processes [http://youpd.org]. Some of the more popular scripts included 'Doctopus' [to manage assignment creation/collecting] and 'Flubaroo' [to automate the grading of quizzes created in Google Forms].
Again, the workflow issue was solved. However, a lot of teachers weren't tech-saavy enough (yet!) to utilize all of these scripts of piece-meal all of them together to build a comprehensive solution.
So yes, this is a huge deal, because it allows teachers to easily manage the tools they are already using (and they are definitely using GAFE products- literally tens of millions of students and teachers have access to those tools).
Also, as an aside-- I've noticed comments that say, "teachers do not want to create assignments" or "teachers would go white seeing a room full of kids with their laptops turned away". Please do not assume that most teachers are resistant to learning how to use digital tools. Schools are dealing with a variety of issues related to this shift, including weak infrastructure, broken and outdated equipment, lack of time for training, lack of a shared vision and implementation planning, lack of support, negative media coverage, etc. If any teacher is resistant, it is likely because he/she hasn't had enough support to adapt in a meaningful way yet. This is a BIG change for teachers and it completely changes the fundamentals of how many of them have operated. Think about the last time we went through a shift this dramatic... the closest thing to what the Internet has done for education is probably what the printing press did for education. That's a big deal, and there are going to be growing pains.
Not to mention the potential damage that could be done to Canvas by Instructure, which is competing with the Black Board behemoth at the (currently) higher ed market.
35 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 84.8 ms ] threadAnecdotally, it definitely looks like Blackboard has an almost monopoly on class room management stuff. Since the education market is so slow to adopt new things, Google definitely has their work cut out for them.
With that being said, Blackboard definitely leaves a lot to be desired, and with classes supposedly going online more and more, the market is definitely ripe for some disruption.
http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/blog/techflash/2013/09...
Teachers do not want to create assignments. I created a similar thing for my wife and discovered this and a lot more
Is it tracking and recording the usage and behaviour of teachers and students who use these tools? What does it use this data for? ("we use this data to improve services" says absolutely nothing.)
If you start using these tools in your student years, then continue to use your email and Google apps into adult life, can you imagine the phenomenal amount of data Google will have captured and recorded about you?
> Google also won’t even use the data that moves through the platform or display ads in Classroom, either, in accordance with its new policy announced last week.
Note the language, they say they won't use it for "ads in Classroom", but what about for other purposes?
I know lots of Hacker news readers consider this a complete non-issue, but I don't think these are unreasonable questions to ask of a company that has far greater oversight of people's online behaviour than anyone else.
If the answer is yes then a big no thanks.
It's over a year old now, and it's only received very minor updates. Still can't even reorder notes in the web interface. I won't be devastated if/when it goes away, but it just seems like a huge missed opportunity for Google to actually put some effort into this kind of application.
No Google! I will not fall for you again!
wat. There was a major update less than a month ago, adding:
-Searchable images: Find printed text in images
-List settings: Set where new or checked items go
-Trash: Keep deleted notes just a little longer
-Yellow action bar
-Updated slide-out menu with multi-account selection
-Make copies of notes
-Action bar changes color with notes
A few months before that was:
-Sleek new design: many of your favorite things from the -Android app are now on the web – full color notes, text that scales to fit the note, and a custom font just for Keep
-Rearrange items in lists: keep everything in order, all the time
-Improved search: finding the note you’re looking for is easier than ever
-Navigation drawer: quickly switch between your active and archived notes, or get a custom view of all of your notes with reminders
(Apologies for the editorializing, I literally just searched for articles about Keep updates and copied the changelogs over)
> Still can't even reorder notes in the web interface.
I just opened up the Keep web app and clicking and dragging works fine for me to re-order notes.
I use Tasks in the Gmail interface and have an app which syncs to my phone constantly. Its more of a list app rather than fancy colours and photo taking.
Considering it is in direct conflict with Keep, I've often wondered which will get the chop first.
The issue is how strong their support services are.
[if the answer is G+ account, I don't think I can risk it given Google hate for certain types of names]
I'm guessing this will be a non-zero value.
This actually is a HUGE deal for teachers and schools, and it will provide a LOT of value.
One of the largest frustrations teachers have with going paperless is managing the workflow of assignments. Learning management systems like Blackboard or Moodle were often a feasible solution to this issue, since teachers could share files for download and students could upload finished assignments.
Google Apps for Education products (namely Google Docs) disrupted this. Because Google Docs allows teachers to have access to student work (collaborative editing), it allows him/her to give feedback and support throughout the entire creative process.
That's a very big deal, and it makes the [upload/download] features in Blackboard or Moodle less useful. Plugins that allowed access to Google Drive folders were built for both of those tools (as well as others- like Schoology, Edmodo, Haiku, Canvas, etc.) but they stopped short when it came to managing the workflow of creating, sharing, organizing, and collecting collaborative files in the Google Apps ecosystem.
In 2011, Hapara [ed tech company, graduated iK12 accelerator, http://hapara.com/] entered the scene. Their tool laid on top of Google Apps products and streamlined the process of managing classrooms by giving teachers or administrators a bird's eye view of all student work- their files, recent activity, etc. That workflow problem was solved.
However, not every school is willing to pay for the advanced features of Hapara- so there still wasn't a free solution that every teacher could access. Some of the team at the NY-based school charter network New Visions for Public Schools built and released some of the scripts they were using to manage processes [http://youpd.org]. Some of the more popular scripts included 'Doctopus' [to manage assignment creation/collecting] and 'Flubaroo' [to automate the grading of quizzes created in Google Forms].
Again, the workflow issue was solved. However, a lot of teachers weren't tech-saavy enough (yet!) to utilize all of these scripts of piece-meal all of them together to build a comprehensive solution.
So yes, this is a huge deal, because it allows teachers to easily manage the tools they are already using (and they are definitely using GAFE products- literally tens of millions of students and teachers have access to those tools).
Also, as an aside-- I've noticed comments that say, "teachers do not want to create assignments" or "teachers would go white seeing a room full of kids with their laptops turned away". Please do not assume that most teachers are resistant to learning how to use digital tools. Schools are dealing with a variety of issues related to this shift, including weak infrastructure, broken and outdated equipment, lack of time for training, lack of a shared vision and implementation planning, lack of support, negative media coverage, etc. If any teacher is resistant, it is likely because he/she hasn't had enough support to adapt in a meaningful way yet. This is a BIG change for teachers and it completely changes the fundamentals of how many of them have operated. Think about the last time we went through a shift this dramatic... the closest thing to what the Internet has done for education is probably what the printing press did for education. That's a big deal, and there are going to be growing pains.
http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/instructure $39.10M funding / 2008 startup.