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Ask HN: How do you approach salary negotiation when you know the upper range?

13 points by nhayden ↗ HN
I'm interviewing for an entry level front-end web developer job. I have a friend who works there, is endorsing me, and is part of the hiring process. He told me the upper range of salary that his employer is willing to pay.

I'm a big fan of the Kalzumeus school of negotiation: never saying a number first, for any reason. However, given the situation of knowing their upper range (55K), should I maybe just say a number like 60K so they're likely to offer me the 55K? If I remain silent and refuse to give a number, I'm afraid they might think they can get away with offering something around 50K.

Not sure if it matters - I'm coming in as an analyst in a different industry and I do currently make more than I would at this new job. I do web dev as a hobby and sometimes as a freelancing thing, but have no professional developer experience (though I use SQL/VBA tons as an analyst). I'm willing to take the small pay cut because I think it's more what I want to do long-term.

Also not sure if it matters: the longest I'm going to be able to stay at this position is just at one year. Having to move out of state for various reasons after this.

I appreciate any help - thank you!

14 comments

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calcsam
The advice I've heard (don't remember where from) is if they are willing to pay 50-60k, say you are looking for 58k to 70k. Hook the bottom end of your range in just under the top end of theirs.

Keep in mind also that SQL + web dev are two really complementary skills and it will take you far in backend jobs, ie, "build out our analytics dashboard"

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andyakb
You should never negotiate by giving a range. AT BEST they will give you the bottom end of that range. If the highest they can go is $60k, then start at 70 and dont counter below 60.
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mynegation
SQL, VBA and a title of analyst: looks like you are in Finance or related industry. Why not try to get a job in the same industry? - you will certainly make more money than in web development.
nhayden
The ability to make six figures is easier as a developer for the introverted type like me. I could work towards getting a job at hedge fund or something and try to be a portfolio manager and make lots of money, but I worked at a hedge fund for three years and the environment there was shit and people worked way too much.

Developing is a nice place to be because it's easier to demonstrate my value and skills and therefore always easier to find work. Networking is obviously still important, but less so than it is in the finance industry. Also, I sort of enjoy programming, and I rather dislike financial modeling.

The idea is to eventually transition out of web dev into a more of a regular dev job.

jackgolding
Hey mate,

you are in a similar situation to me, why aren't you going into back end/digital marketing (analytics) stuff?

nhayden
Analytics for marketing or other purposes might be interesting, but really as I said above, I sort of enjoy programming and don't want to spend the rest of my life buried in Excel sheets. I also think there's more money in programming and jobs are easier to get in programming.
glimcat
"Really? That's well below the market average of X for similar positions, and from what we were discussing I'm not sure that the market average skill set is going to cut it here.

Take specific_problem we were just discussing, you really don't want to slot in a generic developer there because Y. Whereas I've dealt with that problem before and would instead do Z for you, saving you much time and profit.

Because of this, the low end of the range we should talk about is really more like $N > market average. Why don't we come back to that, and talk more about the problems your team is going to face this year..."

nhayden
The issue is they want a below-average skill set for the position. I can't exactly sell the fact that my below average skills matches the job well.
hashtag
It really depends on the location. I wouldn't assume its below market rate when you don't know where the market is.
impassebreaker
Actually built something that sort of deals with this. it's at www.impassebreaker.com. IB compares bottom line financial positions and if there's a match, you're both told what the number is. A match is any case where what you are willing to accept is greater than or equal to what they are willing to pay. If no match, they don't learn your bottom line and you don't learn theirs. It was built initially for dispute resolution but salary negotiation works fine.
ElectricPenguin
Knowing the number in your situation doesn't change much in your situation. You still won't provide the first number.

However, since you know where the first number will be (within 5-10K) depending on your presentation up to this point.

Either:

A. You will provide a reason or reasons you are more valuable than that number (in value to the company, which they will accept or reject)

B. You will show you are more experienced than someone who would be a good fit for this position

C. You will accept their assessment of an offer in that range.

You should research the market value of this position it won't help your negotiation (I wouldn't recommend trying to convince someone they are paying their people too little) but it will tell you whether their offer is acceptable.