That's actually a very cultural thing. But yes, I agree, in the US, apologising too much comes off as weak and so it should not be done often.
This is why while it's acceptable and necessary in some cultures to apologize in advance, or to apologize for small things, in the US, it's better to only apologize when it's really for something big.
So I wanted to reply here so you'd see this. Language seems to be one of your main concerns, but your writing is fine. Have you considered taking language/diction classes? You don't need to change your accent, but part of the problem with spoken communication may be that you aren't hearing the difference between two words that people are saying or you are, but when you speak the words come out incorrectly (per American pronunciations at least). I had a professor in college, for instance, that always pronounced "robot" as "rabbit". Once we knew this it was easy for us to understand (by context, rabbits had no place in the discussions), but we could never convince him that he was doing this. A diction coach or language teacher may help you with this aspect of your conversation skills. Similarly, risk embarassment and find a colleague that you get along with decently, and ask them to critique your speech. You may not like what they say, but if you can get past the emotional boundaries and accept the criticism as constructive it may help you to improve.
Also, to work on your vocabulary, you may consider reading novels that's where the bulk of my vocabulary comes from. Also, consider enrolling in a community college writing course (not basic composition, but something like creative writing). This'll get you out of your home, around other people, and deliberately practicing your language skills (at least in the written context, which paired with practice ought to improve your spoken language skills).
EDIT: And something to remember. You may find the class embarrassing, because you don't feel up to the task or on par with your classmates English skills. Don't fret it. It's an exercise for that as well, getting over the mental barriers around embarrassment. Accept that you'll make mistakes, make them in public, and then move on with your life. One of the best things about doing this in a class? Other people will make mistakes too. And when it's over, you don't have to see them again if you don't want to. But hopefully after a term together you'll have a couple of friends from the group.
When I read this, I was really hit because I was the same way my entire high school life. So this topic makes me very emotional and I'm saddened by your story. No one should experience the loneliness you're experiencing...I'm sorry.
But I think you're definitely not alone in this area--many computer science students feel the same way. Many people have mentioned making yourself respected, doing activities, etc...these things help but a relationship is two-way. To make a friendship work, you really just have to be other-centered: thinking about other before yourself, actively remembering someone's name, actively listening to people.
One good book to check out on this very topic is "How to Win Friends and Influence Others" by Dale Carnegie. And if you want you can email me :)
OP: it seems like it's time to seek professional help. Your post implies worries about your mental health. Time spent regularly seeing a counselor is probably going to the be most effective thing for you.
I was the same. Meetups are not as helpful as groups where you actually do an activity together, be it theater, climbing, board games, ...
The problem with meetups is that you don't have the common activity to help with really interacting between each other. It's often a presentation and then some networking but networking events at meetups don't help introverts at all.
Tech meetups are not the best choice for meeting people. Try movies, museums, hiking, etc. Meetups where there is a built-in social component of perhaps one where conversation is the whole point.
I've had both good and bad experiences with meetup.com events.
Usually the problem is you join a group that already met a few (sometimes many) times together and you're the odd one. Of course some groups try to be really inclusive but that's not always the case.
Rarely you feel confident enough to engage in the topics discussed etc.
I guess it might be a cultural thing. Possibly it works better in countries like US.
The one thing that helped me the most when I just finished university and lived alone in a foreign country without any friends was to take a look at activities and clubs nearby and become a member. Since I was shy and found it hard to express myself, I decided to force myself to join an improvisation theater group. This really helped me a lot to meet people I wouldn't have otherwise met and to be in situation where it's much easier to communicate because you have some shared interest which isn't work.
This may sound trite but I think that this really helped. My choice of doing theater was also great to improve language skills and confidence I think (my english wasn't that great either then).
I recommend clubs where there are activities because if you just go to meetups, it's often very hard as the new guy to approach people. Social activities like improv theater or sports or board games or anything like this creates a basis of interaction with the people around you making it much easier to meet.
1. Why haven't you been social in school? Too much pressure to get good grades? Fear of being rejected?
2. Why do you live alone? I'm 26 years old guy living in a foreign country and I live with a flatmate. I'd hate living alone.
I had a friend in a similar situation as you (a young Japanese guy with basic english living in Poland). My friends make him to go out. It took a while to him to get comfortable.
1. School workloads were demanding
2. I'd prefer living alone, provided that I have people to spend time with when I feel like. Also, I was new to the area, so I did not want to have a roommate until I find a good one.
get over that and get room-mates. They might not necessarily become your best buddies, but at least your interactions with them should help you improve your conversational English.
I second having roommates. I'm terrible at meeting new friends but have pretty substantial social networks stemming from random roommates off of Craigslist. The best man at my wedding was a Craigslist roommate, who was very much a social connector. Much of my social network when I moved to another city was from his college friends, and another group here was another roommate from Craigslist's friends.
Look for good roommates. The more social the better. I also was similarly uncomfortable with roommates, commuted to college, lived alone, and one day in my early 20's I made a choice to deliberately do things that make me uncomfortable and it changed my life forever.
Step out of your comfort zone. Its the only thing that will change your situation.
No joke: I bought a dog. Probably the best way to come into chats with complete strangers :-D Also don't underestimate the value of your body language. That is often more important than your skill at expressing your thoughts into language.
I think babies are the best way, actually. (I'm not advising the OP to have a baby, though, at this particular juncture, though it'd definitely keep him busy.)
The Bay Area has a strong "rationalist" community (lesswrong.com, CFAR, MIRI, etc.) which has tons of people like you. They have meetups all the time and are generally welcoming, I've had a lot of fun hanging out with them. You don't have to buy into the ideas, and you'll get to meet some interesting characters, to say the least.
The best way to make friends is to find some sport or social club and join in. Friendships should develop over time, as you see people frequently in a relaxed setting.
A good idea here is to join a social sports team -- in New Zealand I'd recommend you play rugby, but I don't know what you play in America.
If you don't like sport, that's cool. Just find something that you're interested in, and find some pre-existing group of people that is formed around this common interest, and join in.
Making friends is incredibly difficult once one is an adult, so I won't offer advice on that. But you mention that your English is not at conversational level. Therefore any attempt to make friends will be doomed before you evrn start. You need to take English classes.
This is your chance. The best way to meet friends as an adult is to have a common activity. Learning English is an excellent way for you to meet other people also interested in learning English. Jump online and find English learning groups, English classes, etc. You should also look for meetups for people of your native language so you can go to them as well. The next step is go to the meetings even if they suck, even if you feel lonely and bored. The best way to meet people is to get out there, you don't meet anyone in your house. If you have an interest in a sport that's a great way too, however I would say the more unusual the sport the better. With common sports like Basketball or Soccer people often join in groups and it's harder to make new friends. Something like Fencing or Archery would probably be better. I went through the same thing in a different country, I made my few friends through board games, d&d, and fencing.
The TLDR on that site (and his book) is basically conversational practise (anywhere you can get it) is much much more important than lessons, which are too different from how our brains are designed to learn languages (which is by usage, not grammar rules.) I would say that this is especially true for someone who can already write as the OP can, but just has trouble with confidence in talking to people in person.
The key lesson for OP from FI3M, is that people are very infrequently angry with you for speaking their language wrong. English speakers may have more of a sense of entitlement than speakers of other languages (dominant culture, etc) but in general people will do their best to communicate, however slowly (assuming you catch them in a situation where they have time.) A good way to do this is meeting someone for coffee explicitly to practise English. Either they can learn your language in return, or you buy them the coffee, obviously! :)
(edit: situations where you can do this! You could always "buy an English lesson" from someone, I suppose. You could also arrange to meet someone you met at an English class on a different evening, in order to practise together, especially if your only common language is English.)
Having conversations with people is a great way to learn, and also make friends. People love an accent and odd phrasing. Just keep talking to people.
Do some group sports. Yoga, dancing, skateboarding, table tennis, whatever. Go to clubs, or bars where people talk. Introduce yourself to people. Eventually, when you keep going back you'll make some friends.
Are you into music or art? Why not go and see some shows? Or take a life drawing class or some such. Maybe start collecting records, or join a photography group.
Don't talk about your job with people. There is nothing people find more boring.
Language isn't as important as you'd think. I've made friends with a Russian guy playing Counter-Strike, and neither of us speak each other's language. We've had a lot of fun insulting each other using Google Translate, and we just enjoy playing with each other.
Wrong language. Not English. Help out a class for your native language. Tutor before/after class anyone who wants to talk in your native language. If the conversation tends toward "lets go get coffee / tea / movie / bar whatever after class" well, that's what happens. "I've got a great idea, how about I take you to dinner and you try to teach me as much English as I'm teaching you?" or if bunch of guys, "Oh you're watching football together on Sunday afternoon, could I come over to work on my English, I'll bring some beer?"
Also if you are asian and start talking in perfect English like George Takei they're going to assume you're perfectly extroverted and an expert on American social cultural norms and behaviors, oh good how nice and stressful if you're introverted. But if you're just good enough to communicate most of the time while clearly putting in some kind of effort, they'll cut you a huge amount of slack, regardless if the actual problem is you're all introverted anxious exhausted. He's not terrified to be talking to a pretty girl, he's just having English troubles, no problem.
In the Bay Area there are tons of fascinating people. I met more such in my first 2 weeks there than in two years of living in some other places.
Being new to a place may be hard. But in the Bay Area you can find a http://www.meetup.com/ for many, many topics (choose topics you genuinely enjoy); it may be a great place to start. Being an introvert myself (though one who have learnt to start conversations) having some topic to start (like Meetup's main theme, or the last talk topic) is great.
Lack of car in US may be a hard thing... but: you have Caltrain & as of now it may be more cool (and healthy) to be more bike-oriented (at least, in the Bay Area).
Do you have a sport you enjoy playing? Maybe there's a club/team you can join to get to know people outside work. That was always the first thing I did when I moved to a new location.
If you have a common reason to be somewhere, it reduces a lot of the awkwardness from meeting new people.
Someone's already said it, but starting with something like meetup.com just to give you that initial confidence boost and practice socializing would be perfect. Once you've gotten used to seeing, talking, and shooting the shit with other humans once a week I think everything else that you want (meeting girls, making close friendships) will develop naturally.
Also, because you're in the bay, I can make a few personal recommendations:
- Start rock climbing. If you're near south-bay, hit up Planet Granite. If you're in the city, maybe Dog-Patch. You'll not only become stronger and more physically confident, but you'll also learn how to socialize, meet, and make friends with strangers.
- Check our your local hacker-spaces. Hackerdojo is probably a good bet, given your location. There's usually classes or meetups for a particular interest on weekends which are well attended. At the worst, you'll show up and learn something.
Perhaps one last bit of advice: try to learn to be happy by yourself. This means enjoying the time you spend reading, learning, walking, etc, and not spending that time contemplating how you'd be happier if you were with friends. Gradually, this poise and contentment will transform itself into a very attractive self-confidence :)
I'm not an introvert, but I'm shy. That's even worse, because I WANT to hang out with people but I'm desperately afraid of meeting new people. Anyways, go find an event that sparks your interest where you will meet people. Or, just force yourself to do something. Social dancing did it for me, for example. I know indoor rock climbing has worked for other people (if you don't have a partner you sign up on a list of solos looking for a partner).
I would venture to say that if you truly are an introvert (being social saps your energy) then you should consider social dancing or rock climbing, because for a few minutes at a time your attention is focused on just one person and you can for the most part shut off everyone else, unlike being in say a generic 'common interest' meetup.
But anyways you have to actually put effort into it. Unlike the olden days, where everyone in town knew what was up, and dragged other people around, or college, which professionalizes the student's entitlement to experiences, you are rarely going to be handed social activities on a platter.
If someone invites you to spend time with them in a group, make a mental note of it, and if you're counting too many examples where you're saying no, think hard about saying yes the next time.
Also, yes, it is harder being an Asian. I know this from personal experience. But there is nothing you can do about that, so forget about it.
After I quit my job as a scientist, I drove for lyft, and got lots of offers to hang out with passengers. So I said no a lot (needed the money, driving is donezo one you've started drinking). Now, I consider it and hang out with passengers every once in a while. I've got to be selective, as a 30-something it might not be all that fun hanging out with 20-somethings in a bar in certain parts of San Diego...
I would have suggested "drive for lyft" to the OP, but he doesn't have a car, so...
The language barrier is a problem, but it can also be an opportunity. Try looking for conversation clubs or meetups (look on facebook, too) -- perhaps you can find someone who wants to learn your native language and you can teach each other.
Get used to loneliness. I figured it the hard way, the more you try to get out the numbing pain of loneliness by trying to make friends, the more people do not want to make friends with you. Do your stuff, take music classes, listen to good music, become awesome at the thing you're already good at through practice and more importantly stop trying hard to make friends. Then you have a greater probability that you'll make some good friends.
This is actually an incredibly good point; although counterintuitive. However, OP, you should focus on your advantages and why they make you fucking awesome. At this point, I am not sure if you are being a friend to yourself. It is possible that your ethnicity, your accent/lack of it, your assets are hindering you from making friends with some people. However, this is a planet of six billion people. Find out what makes you truly happy and make peace with yourself. Seek out things that make you happy. At that point, you will attract people around you who truly enjoy your company. Be patient. Superficial relationships are easy. Making really good friends/strong relationships is incredibly hard. For everyone.
there are worse things than
being alone
but it often takes decades
to realize this
and most often
when you do
it's too late
and there's nothing worse
than
too late.
I'd recommend you picking up a hobby where you'll have to interact with people. For example joining a beginner dancing class (salsa/mambo). It's a lot easier to start conversation with people who have common interest. It feels a lot more natural.
I'd also suggest to start working out a couple of times a week. It will make you more confident.
You also mentioned that you do a lot on your own. Don't expect people to invite you to events. Try to plan something on your own and invite them. Like movie/gaming night, barbecue and etc. That will show that you are interested and want to be friends with them.
I would add that taking a social dancing class is a good idea because OP stated he wanted to meet women. So, that's kind of built in to the process...
In my experience ("lindy hop" swing, tango) social dancing has LOTS of engineers/scientists so the communities are very accepting of the social awkwardness.
And assuming the OP is Korean based on his handle, lindy hop is incredibly, incredibly, popular back at home...
As an adult it seems harder, but try to change your environment. You will adapt if you suddently live with roommates, and meet a lot of people on a everyday basis. The only hard part is not stopping after the initial failures; the best solution for this is to have no choice : for instance, apply for an internship in a big company for a year. Adaptation will come from effort and environment.
Whatever your preconceived notions of psychoanalysis or any kind of therapy (the kind not involving drugs), I would strongly urge you to seek out a well-regarded and senior shrink or therapist in your area that you can afford to see at least once a week. I'm not sure how one finds a good shrink in your area. In New York, where I live, it involved reaching out to people I knew who had grown up here—I realize this won't be your strategy, but perhaps there are websites or organizations that can help direct you to a well-regarded counselor.
Think before you choose someone; this will be a person with whom you'll spend a lot of time talking about yourself. Is it a man or a woman? Are they middle aged or perhaps older? Are they also Asian, or perhaps with another background? Be honest with yourself about who you may feel the most comfortable talking to. Take your time choosing somebody, and then see them once a week. Don't expect results immediately, but if you can commit yourself to seeing someone regularly for at least six to twelve months, the results may well be life-changing, as they have been for many people I have known going through similar struggles.
If you are naturally suspicious of counseling or psychoanalysis, think about the definite upside of meeting with a shrink regularly: you'll have a regular opportunity to practice and hone your social and conversational skills, you'll get feedback on those skills from an honest professional, you will improve your ability to express yourself to strangers, and you will work on your general English speaking abilities that you mention are a point of concern for you. If your budget can sustain it, it may well be the best money you'll spend for the time being.
The first thing I would to is to become interested in your co-workers. Ask them about their lives, how they got to your company, why they came to your company, what they did before. Ask them about their views on current events. This is how humans connect, by being interested in one another. You might also want to read "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Win_Friends_and_Influenc....
The second most important thing is to ask for people for advice (which is what you're doing right now). It can be work-related, life-related it doesn't matter. By showing that you are open for advice, you show that you value their point of view and you give them the opportunity to communicate what they're best at.
Regarding how to find the right girl, check out the Youtube channel from RSD Julien, the co-founder of Real Social Dynamics who is talking a lot about self-improvement and how to constantly expose yourself to things you are afraid of. But all in all, it's not about the girls, it's about you. So don't chase after girls, chase after your own best self and the right girl that loves you exactly the way you are will come automatically. He started out similar to you, not having many friends and being afraid of talking to women. Have a look here at his story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGp25fn25Cs
A few thoughts coming from a guy who used to be a shy introvert.
- Making friends involves truly connecting with people. Connecting with people means caring about them. The first step is to give a damn about everyone around you. How are they doing? What do they care about? What makes them tick? What problems might they be having?
- People love to talk about themselves. Ask them good questions, and actively listen (because as we said above, you care about them!). The more you get someone to talk about themselves, the more they'll usually end up liking you.
- Help people. It might be an old lady across the street. It could be a co-worker. Or, the person moving into your apartment building. When you can, help people (again, because you care about them :))
- Notice a trend here? I'll repeat it again. You are doing things because you care about others. The best way to stop being an introvert is to get out of your own head, and get into the head of others.
- Lastly, you'll be uncomfortable a lot. Some conversations will fizzle out. Some people might think you are weird. You might be out at a bar and have no idea who to talk to, or how to start talking to someone. Spend time being uncomfortable. Learn to deal with it. Sooner or later, you'll make small bits of progress. When you do, repeat what you did to make that bit of progress.
I have no problem making friends and speaking to people. I'm an introvert who became an extrovert as my confidence increased. And, I just wanted to really back up the 'uncomfortable' comment. Even with close friends the conversation can die completely and not come back for a while, because we run out of things to say. So if that does happen to you, be aware, it's completely normal, and happens to everyone.
Be open, generous and helpful. Care about other people and show genuine interest in their lives, don't dismiss them just because they might fulfill some of your stereotypes (hipster / jog / bimbo / ...).
I disagree. I have done years of volunteer work/helping other people and it does not help one bit with being social (it's not why I do it, so I don't care about that supposed dimension). Plus, there are plenty of terrible people who wouldn't consider doing anything except for their own self-interest who are just fine at being social.
Totally orthogonal considerations. Sorry, don't mean to be cynical - I strongly encourage doing good things for other people for their own sets of rewards - but advertising this as a way to help out the OP's issues being social will not help and may deepen a sense of entitlement and frustration.
None of my friends are friends with me 'because I help feed people with AIDS every week'. Probably most of them don't know that I do this, and maybe this is pretentious but I don't make it public knowledge because in the past when I have it has intimidated people, possibly because they get worried that I would get judgey.
I would go so far as to say, even better than doing something good and 'caring' for someone (you should do that anyways) is to get in debt to someone. Maybe not financial debt, but ask other people for a favor, or help. Psychologically, the person is then invested in you to repay that debt in the future. After all Kennedy said "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country", thus putting the country in debt to its citizens, and his popularity soared.
This is about you helping strangers, or friends of friends. Moving, cooking dinner, helping with a legal problem, helping them with their exams, letting them borrow your rice cooker over the weekend, helping them with their birthday party, inviting them for a drink, volunteering to look after their dog and so on.
I think that's tricky. If you help people too much, then they resent you because of the built up debt (which is why I wrote the part about debt in there). It's counterintuitive, but I think asking for help is a better strategy for making friends than offering help.
I think you misunderstood the "help other people" with "do volunteer work". The two things are not necessarily related. Nobody is going to befriend you just because you help children with troubled families, but surely they will be more likely to befriend you if you help them with their everyday life, like helping them moving out of an apartment, giving them a shoulder to cry on when time is rough, buying them a beer after a bad night, helping them fix their bike, etc etc.
It's not about helping everyone, it's about helping the people you care about (supposedly, your friends)
I think you look at it from the wrong perspective, it's not about voluntary work per se, it's about caring about other people. If you dismiss people because of your stereotypes, you'll never get to know them.
If you're open and generous, sure, some people might abuse this, but do you want to be friends with such people?
If you want to get to know people and become their friends you will eventually have to care about them in one way or in another. Man, you can even be of opposite opinion, that disagreement could actually be the foundation for a future relationship. Who knows?
So in my opinion, being open, generous and getting rid of your stereotypes and bigotry when it comes to other people is a great way for making friends.
There's a psychology book that researches this phenomena. I forgot the title but it starts out by saying people in general can be grouped into three categories. Givers, exchangers and takers. Givers tend to care about people, takers tend to care about themselves and exchangers try to be fair.
I don't know all the quantitative and qualitative parameters used for the study but they found out that in general the types of people who were least successful (in companies and other structured organizations) were the givers. The surprising result was that the most successful people were also givers while takers and exchangers generally hovered in the center. You'd have to read it to know more.
Unlikely you'll ever read the book but I just recalled the name, it's called Give and Take for anyone interested.
Sometimes it flirts with catch22 though. If you're very shy and insecure, it's hard to care about people with your mind clouded with self-absorbed anxiety.
I wish I could trade in my karma and upvote this a few hundred times.
Genuinely caring about others, and demonstrating it by doing things like asking people about themselves, are powerful and are central to every human relationship.
In a good conversation, the amount of things you say about yourself should roughly equal the number of things they say about themselves. (Obviously, some things you talk about might be about neither of you - like if you're discussing a book)
You don't even have to ask particularly insightful questions. You can always ask open-ended questions like, "How do you feel about that?" in response to something they tell you.
Hey, I feel you. I'm not Asian, but I'm introvert. I'm a tad younger, at 20 years old. I'm also unemployed (yay!).
Anyway, I've never have tons of friends, but after finishing high school, I've cut almost every relations that I've had with others (on one side, I've never had a friendship outside school, on the other side, it's my fault since I'm not good at maintaining relations).
So you could say that I'm currently in a similar situation to you. I don't have much to say but the usual suggestions that everyone will give you, since really isn't much to say.
If you have any hobby, it might be worth searching for local shops or local meetups for it. If you like card games and/or board games, you'll always find some shop in a city. If you like sports, join a local club, it's usually a decent way to make friends. Conventions seems to be rather frequent in america, so you can try and go to those.
Getting friends in a skill that you have to develop over time. Many, many people just take it for granted, since most are born with it, but for some it takes years to master.
When you meed people, try to not be shy. Talk, look at them and not elsewhere/the floor, don't cross your arm. In short, watch your body language.
If you have nothing to say, ask them about themself. Most people just love to talk about themself. Don't be shy to ask, at worst they'll just shrug it off and switch the arguments to something else.
Try to remember their names, it's a nice thing that most people will appreciate. Also, after you've made a bit of conversation and you like them, try to maintain that relations. Ask them a contact, and contact them from time to time (just don't be overwhelming, otherwise you'll look like a creep). If they're interested, you get someone to talk, otherwise it's not hard for them to not reply.
Someone is suggesting you to get a dog, and I can say that it's a wonderful way to have random small talks (especially if you have some kind of rare dog). But remember that getting a dog is not something you can do lighthearted, it will take tons of efforts.
As for your English, just try to speak with other people, most will not mind your bad english as long as it's not painful to understand (and given how you write, I don't think it is). And you'll get better over time.
That's mostly what it comes to my mind. It might work or not, but it's the usual suggestions you'll read over the internet. I can say that I'm a better listener after following those, but my introversion is still blocking me from joining a club (but I've started running, maybe I'll get to know someone with it?).
If you want to talk, my email is in my profile page. I can't do much (especially since there is an ocean between us), but I find that just writing something helps a lot to get your ideas clear.
Also, regarding English, there's some chance you could find people learning your native language who'd love to have a conversation with a native-speaker; in my city we have such weekly meetings organized in some café. Similarly, we do also have some websites where people are offering "help in exchange for help", you might again find someone wanting to practice your language in exchange for e.g. teaching/talking with you in English; or as you you're firstly into relations at all, you could just find someone you could help in something, and you can also "hide" it behind a request that he/she helps you in something else (again, could be just learning English).
Sorry if that's not the right place, but I have a similar problem.
I am a 1st year CS student and I can't find a coding buddy. By that I mean someone to study new technologies with, to work on learning-focused projects together and exchange ideas. Most of my schoolmates are overwhelmed with classes and don't have time or desire for partnering up.
So, HN, if you are up for some node.js/javascript or C++ learning, it would be awesome to get in touch. I've even posted a thread[1] on reddit, but so far no luck.
As someone who was, and because of moving places frequently, becomes in your situation. Here is my advice and what have worked for me.
Your situation is special. Most people at this age have friends. Most people are not looking for new friends or are not willing to invest in a new relationship.
You need to know that because it'll save you lots of time, effort, money and pain.
You need to find people who are in your situation. They do exist and they are everywhere. Starting a relationship with them works most of the time, because they are looking to hang out with someone. They are willing to invest regardless of the language barriers or the cultural differences.
How to find them? You need to become more visible, and have an instinct at knowing who these people are. Never invest, or try to invest into someone who has lots of friends.
They are in the coffee, the street, the gym club, library, shopping mall, the nearest park, events, internet...
The language 'problem' is covered by quite some meetups, I found one [1] pretty quickly that looks like fun in SF, but there will be more.
Another thing that helps me connect to people quickly is the local couchsurf community. Just show up at one of their meetups, in general it's all people from around the world that are easy-going and up for fun. Plus they're interested in different cultures so you can learn them a thing or two as well :-)
Regarding girls and cars, that's just crazy talk. Just say that you're an environmentalist if anyone ever asks.
452 comments
[ 4.5 ms ] story [ 297 ms ] threadThis is why while it's acceptable and necessary in some cultures to apologize in advance, or to apologize for small things, in the US, it's better to only apologize when it's really for something big.
Also, to work on your vocabulary, you may consider reading novels that's where the bulk of my vocabulary comes from. Also, consider enrolling in a community college writing course (not basic composition, but something like creative writing). This'll get you out of your home, around other people, and deliberately practicing your language skills (at least in the written context, which paired with practice ought to improve your spoken language skills).
EDIT: And something to remember. You may find the class embarrassing, because you don't feel up to the task or on par with your classmates English skills. Don't fret it. It's an exercise for that as well, getting over the mental barriers around embarrassment. Accept that you'll make mistakes, make them in public, and then move on with your life. One of the best things about doing this in a class? Other people will make mistakes too. And when it's over, you don't have to see them again if you don't want to. But hopefully after a term together you'll have a couple of friends from the group.
The problem with meetups is that you don't have the common activity to help with really interacting between each other. It's often a presentation and then some networking but networking events at meetups don't help introverts at all.
Usually the problem is you join a group that already met a few (sometimes many) times together and you're the odd one. Of course some groups try to be really inclusive but that's not always the case. Rarely you feel confident enough to engage in the topics discussed etc.
I guess it might be a cultural thing. Possibly it works better in countries like US.
This may sound trite but I think that this really helped. My choice of doing theater was also great to improve language skills and confidence I think (my english wasn't that great either then).
I recommend clubs where there are activities because if you just go to meetups, it's often very hard as the new guy to approach people. Social activities like improv theater or sports or board games or anything like this creates a basis of interaction with the people around you making it much easier to meet.
2. Why do you live alone? I'm 26 years old guy living in a foreign country and I live with a flatmate. I'd hate living alone.
I had a friend in a similar situation as you (a young Japanese guy with basic english living in Poland). My friends make him to go out. It took a while to him to get comfortable.
Look for good roommates. The more social the better. I also was similarly uncomfortable with roommates, commuted to college, lived alone, and one day in my early 20's I made a choice to deliberately do things that make me uncomfortable and it changed my life forever.
Step out of your comfort zone. Its the only thing that will change your situation.
A good idea here is to join a social sports team -- in New Zealand I'd recommend you play rugby, but I don't know what you play in America.
If you don't like sport, that's cool. Just find something that you're interested in, and find some pre-existing group of people that is formed around this common interest, and join in.
for anyone here learning a language, check out:
http://www.fluentin3months.com/
The TLDR on that site (and his book) is basically conversational practise (anywhere you can get it) is much much more important than lessons, which are too different from how our brains are designed to learn languages (which is by usage, not grammar rules.) I would say that this is especially true for someone who can already write as the OP can, but just has trouble with confidence in talking to people in person.
The key lesson for OP from FI3M, is that people are very infrequently angry with you for speaking their language wrong. English speakers may have more of a sense of entitlement than speakers of other languages (dominant culture, etc) but in general people will do their best to communicate, however slowly (assuming you catch them in a situation where they have time.) A good way to do this is meeting someone for coffee explicitly to practise English. Either they can learn your language in return, or you buy them the coffee, obviously! :)
(edit: situations where you can do this! You could always "buy an English lesson" from someone, I suppose. You could also arrange to meet someone you met at an English class on a different evening, in order to practise together, especially if your only common language is English.)
Do some group sports. Yoga, dancing, skateboarding, table tennis, whatever. Go to clubs, or bars where people talk. Introduce yourself to people. Eventually, when you keep going back you'll make some friends.
Are you into music or art? Why not go and see some shows? Or take a life drawing class or some such. Maybe start collecting records, or join a photography group.
Don't talk about your job with people. There is nothing people find more boring.
Keep getting out there, and have fun :)
What a horrible society we must have if it enables this; insular, isolating, compartmentalizing.
Also if you are asian and start talking in perfect English like George Takei they're going to assume you're perfectly extroverted and an expert on American social cultural norms and behaviors, oh good how nice and stressful if you're introverted. But if you're just good enough to communicate most of the time while clearly putting in some kind of effort, they'll cut you a huge amount of slack, regardless if the actual problem is you're all introverted anxious exhausted. He's not terrified to be talking to a pretty girl, he's just having English troubles, no problem.
Being new to a place may be hard. But in the Bay Area you can find a http://www.meetup.com/ for many, many topics (choose topics you genuinely enjoy); it may be a great place to start. Being an introvert myself (though one who have learnt to start conversations) having some topic to start (like Meetup's main theme, or the last talk topic) is great.
Lack of car in US may be a hard thing... but: you have Caltrain & as of now it may be more cool (and healthy) to be more bike-oriented (at least, in the Bay Area).
If you have a common reason to be somewhere, it reduces a lot of the awkwardness from meeting new people.
Also, because you're in the bay, I can make a few personal recommendations:
- Start rock climbing. If you're near south-bay, hit up Planet Granite. If you're in the city, maybe Dog-Patch. You'll not only become stronger and more physically confident, but you'll also learn how to socialize, meet, and make friends with strangers.
- Check our your local hacker-spaces. Hackerdojo is probably a good bet, given your location. There's usually classes or meetups for a particular interest on weekends which are well attended. At the worst, you'll show up and learn something.
Perhaps one last bit of advice: try to learn to be happy by yourself. This means enjoying the time you spend reading, learning, walking, etc, and not spending that time contemplating how you'd be happier if you were with friends. Gradually, this poise and contentment will transform itself into a very attractive self-confidence :)
I would venture to say that if you truly are an introvert (being social saps your energy) then you should consider social dancing or rock climbing, because for a few minutes at a time your attention is focused on just one person and you can for the most part shut off everyone else, unlike being in say a generic 'common interest' meetup.
But anyways you have to actually put effort into it. Unlike the olden days, where everyone in town knew what was up, and dragged other people around, or college, which professionalizes the student's entitlement to experiences, you are rarely going to be handed social activities on a platter.
If someone invites you to spend time with them in a group, make a mental note of it, and if you're counting too many examples where you're saying no, think hard about saying yes the next time.
Also, yes, it is harder being an Asian. I know this from personal experience. But there is nothing you can do about that, so forget about it.
I have made it a point to always say yes and it has made a huge difference for me. I am also very shy.
I would have suggested "drive for lyft" to the OP, but he doesn't have a car, so...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7880440
I would say "get used to being alone", though. If you are OK with being alone, you don't feel lonely very often.
In my experience ("lindy hop" swing, tango) social dancing has LOTS of engineers/scientists so the communities are very accepting of the social awkwardness.
And assuming the OP is Korean based on his handle, lindy hop is incredibly, incredibly, popular back at home...
Good luck:)
Think before you choose someone; this will be a person with whom you'll spend a lot of time talking about yourself. Is it a man or a woman? Are they middle aged or perhaps older? Are they also Asian, or perhaps with another background? Be honest with yourself about who you may feel the most comfortable talking to. Take your time choosing somebody, and then see them once a week. Don't expect results immediately, but if you can commit yourself to seeing someone regularly for at least six to twelve months, the results may well be life-changing, as they have been for many people I have known going through similar struggles.
If you are naturally suspicious of counseling or psychoanalysis, think about the definite upside of meeting with a shrink regularly: you'll have a regular opportunity to practice and hone your social and conversational skills, you'll get feedback on those skills from an honest professional, you will improve your ability to express yourself to strangers, and you will work on your general English speaking abilities that you mention are a point of concern for you. If your budget can sustain it, it may well be the best money you'll spend for the time being.
The second most important thing is to ask for people for advice (which is what you're doing right now). It can be work-related, life-related it doesn't matter. By showing that you are open for advice, you show that you value their point of view and you give them the opportunity to communicate what they're best at.
Regarding how to find the right girl, check out the Youtube channel from RSD Julien, the co-founder of Real Social Dynamics who is talking a lot about self-improvement and how to constantly expose yourself to things you are afraid of. But all in all, it's not about the girls, it's about you. So don't chase after girls, chase after your own best self and the right girl that loves you exactly the way you are will come automatically. He started out similar to you, not having many friends and being afraid of talking to women. Have a look here at his story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGp25fn25Cs
- Making friends involves truly connecting with people. Connecting with people means caring about them. The first step is to give a damn about everyone around you. How are they doing? What do they care about? What makes them tick? What problems might they be having?
- People love to talk about themselves. Ask them good questions, and actively listen (because as we said above, you care about them!). The more you get someone to talk about themselves, the more they'll usually end up liking you.
- Help people. It might be an old lady across the street. It could be a co-worker. Or, the person moving into your apartment building. When you can, help people (again, because you care about them :))
- Notice a trend here? I'll repeat it again. You are doing things because you care about others. The best way to stop being an introvert is to get out of your own head, and get into the head of others.
- Lastly, you'll be uncomfortable a lot. Some conversations will fizzle out. Some people might think you are weird. You might be out at a bar and have no idea who to talk to, or how to start talking to someone. Spend time being uncomfortable. Learn to deal with it. Sooner or later, you'll make small bits of progress. When you do, repeat what you did to make that bit of progress.
Hope this helps some!
Be open, generous and helpful. Care about other people and show genuine interest in their lives, don't dismiss them just because they might fulfill some of your stereotypes (hipster / jog / bimbo / ...).
Totally orthogonal considerations. Sorry, don't mean to be cynical - I strongly encourage doing good things for other people for their own sets of rewards - but advertising this as a way to help out the OP's issues being social will not help and may deepen a sense of entitlement and frustration.
I would go so far as to say, even better than doing something good and 'caring' for someone (you should do that anyways) is to get in debt to someone. Maybe not financial debt, but ask other people for a favor, or help. Psychologically, the person is then invested in you to repay that debt in the future. After all Kennedy said "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country", thus putting the country in debt to its citizens, and his popularity soared.
This is about you helping strangers, or friends of friends. Moving, cooking dinner, helping with a legal problem, helping them with their exams, letting them borrow your rice cooker over the weekend, helping them with their birthday party, inviting them for a drink, volunteering to look after their dog and so on.
It's not about helping everyone, it's about helping the people you care about (supposedly, your friends)
If you're open and generous, sure, some people might abuse this, but do you want to be friends with such people?
If you want to get to know people and become their friends you will eventually have to care about them in one way or in another. Man, you can even be of opposite opinion, that disagreement could actually be the foundation for a future relationship. Who knows?
So in my opinion, being open, generous and getting rid of your stereotypes and bigotry when it comes to other people is a great way for making friends.
I don't know all the quantitative and qualitative parameters used for the study but they found out that in general the types of people who were least successful (in companies and other structured organizations) were the givers. The surprising result was that the most successful people were also givers while takers and exchangers generally hovered in the center. You'd have to read it to know more.
Unlikely you'll ever read the book but I just recalled the name, it's called Give and Take for anyone interested.
Genuinely caring about others, and demonstrating it by doing things like asking people about themselves, are powerful and are central to every human relationship.
In a good conversation, the amount of things you say about yourself should roughly equal the number of things they say about themselves. (Obviously, some things you talk about might be about neither of you - like if you're discussing a book)
You don't even have to ask particularly insightful questions. You can always ask open-ended questions like, "How do you feel about that?" in response to something they tell you.
Anyway, I've never have tons of friends, but after finishing high school, I've cut almost every relations that I've had with others (on one side, I've never had a friendship outside school, on the other side, it's my fault since I'm not good at maintaining relations).
So you could say that I'm currently in a similar situation to you. I don't have much to say but the usual suggestions that everyone will give you, since really isn't much to say.
If you have any hobby, it might be worth searching for local shops or local meetups for it. If you like card games and/or board games, you'll always find some shop in a city. If you like sports, join a local club, it's usually a decent way to make friends. Conventions seems to be rather frequent in america, so you can try and go to those.
Getting friends in a skill that you have to develop over time. Many, many people just take it for granted, since most are born with it, but for some it takes years to master.
When you meed people, try to not be shy. Talk, look at them and not elsewhere/the floor, don't cross your arm. In short, watch your body language.
If you have nothing to say, ask them about themself. Most people just love to talk about themself. Don't be shy to ask, at worst they'll just shrug it off and switch the arguments to something else.
Try to remember their names, it's a nice thing that most people will appreciate. Also, after you've made a bit of conversation and you like them, try to maintain that relations. Ask them a contact, and contact them from time to time (just don't be overwhelming, otherwise you'll look like a creep). If they're interested, you get someone to talk, otherwise it's not hard for them to not reply.
Someone is suggesting you to get a dog, and I can say that it's a wonderful way to have random small talks (especially if you have some kind of rare dog). But remember that getting a dog is not something you can do lighthearted, it will take tons of efforts.
As for your English, just try to speak with other people, most will not mind your bad english as long as it's not painful to understand (and given how you write, I don't think it is). And you'll get better over time.
That's mostly what it comes to my mind. It might work or not, but it's the usual suggestions you'll read over the internet. I can say that I'm a better listener after following those, but my introversion is still blocking me from joining a club (but I've started running, maybe I'll get to know someone with it?).
If you want to talk, my email is in my profile page. I can't do much (especially since there is an ocean between us), but I find that just writing something helps a lot to get your ideas clear.
I am a 1st year CS student and I can't find a coding buddy. By that I mean someone to study new technologies with, to work on learning-focused projects together and exchange ideas. Most of my schoolmates are overwhelmed with classes and don't have time or desire for partnering up.
So, HN, if you are up for some node.js/javascript or C++ learning, it would be awesome to get in touch. I've even posted a thread[1] on reddit, but so far no luck.
[1] http://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingBuddies/comments/27zn0i/n...
purringmeow, sent you an email. I am as well looking for a node.js buddy.
Your situation is special. Most people at this age have friends. Most people are not looking for new friends or are not willing to invest in a new relationship.
You need to know that because it'll save you lots of time, effort, money and pain.
You need to find people who are in your situation. They do exist and they are everywhere. Starting a relationship with them works most of the time, because they are looking to hang out with someone. They are willing to invest regardless of the language barriers or the cultural differences.
How to find them? You need to become more visible, and have an instinct at knowing who these people are. Never invest, or try to invest into someone who has lots of friends.
They are in the coffee, the street, the gym club, library, shopping mall, the nearest park, events, internet...
Another thing that helps me connect to people quickly is the local couchsurf community. Just show up at one of their meetups, in general it's all people from around the world that are easy-going and up for fun. Plus they're interested in different cultures so you can learn them a thing or two as well :-)
Regarding girls and cars, that's just crazy talk. Just say that you're an environmentalist if anyone ever asks.
[1] http://www.meetup.com/languageloverssf/