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Ask HN: Advice for dealing with a client and bad SEO advice

6 points by cubicle67 ↗ HN
I have a regular client who I've been doing work for for a number of years and their website rates well in Google, but it's recently fallen to page 2 and they've hired an SEO firm to help them, but I'm concerned the advice they're being given is bad.

Has anyone here any good articles etc on SEO I can give to my client and do any of you have any tips on how to approach this? I've stated my reservations, but in their eyes I'm "the website guy" and the other firms are "the experts".

Examples of what I consider to be bad advice they've been given - massive keyword stuffing. Here's the copy I've just been given for meta keywords "Corporate keyword1 keyword3, keyword1 keyword3, keyword4 keyword2, keyword1 keyword3 Melbourne,cheap keyword1 keyword3,keyword5 merchandise, business keyword2,Company keyword2 Australia, company keyword1 keyword3, corporate keyword2, marketing keyword3, keyword1 keyword2, keyword1 items, keyword1 merchandise, keyword1 keyword3, keyword1 keyword3, keyword1 keyword3 Australia, keyword1 keyword3 Brisbane, keyword1 keyword3 Perth, keyword1 keyword3 Sydney"

Other advice includes hiding h1 elements behind images and the like. fwiw, the SEO mob are a reputable looking Australian firm, and my client is a long standing bricks and mortar store

10 comments

[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 32.8 ms ] thread
ApolloRising
Meta keywords tag has been obsolete for more than 15 years, stuffing it even stupider since the algo will detect it - RUN
cubicle67
Yes, this is what I thought, but how do I say this to a client and get them to listen?
MattBearman
Show your client this page - https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/79812?hl=en

It lists the meta tags Google uses, and clearly states that all other meta tags are ignored. Of course the keywords tag is not listed, so you can categorically show your client that Google does not use the keywords tag.

qohen
And show them this page, also from Google:

https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/66358

From the page:

Irrelevant keywords

"Keyword stuffing" refers to the practice of loading a webpage with keywords or numbers in an attempt to manipulate a site's ranking in Google search results. Often these keywords appear in a list or group, or out of context (not as natural prose). Filling pages with keywords or numbers results in a negative user experience, and can harm your site's ranking. Focus on creating useful, information-rich content that uses keywords appropriately and in context.

A few bullet-points of examples follow, including one about lists of cities one is trying to rank for.

MattBearman
Precisely - I'd be VERY dubious of any SEO firm that recommended using the meta keywords.
mutagen
http://moz.com/ is a fairly authoritative source on good SEO techniques.

They address keyword stuffing in a 'common myths' article [1] that also happens to address the metatag myth. Matt Cutts, Google's search spokesman, also has some unkind words for keyword stuffing [2].

There are appropriate meta tags to be included [3] like the description tag. There's also Open Graph, RDF, and the like to consider including [4]. These don't influence Page Rank and SERP but can help with traffic and providing more information to people. As a brick and mortar store, your client should likely be on top of this kind of metadata and if not, this should be one of your priorities.

Hiding elements sounds like the kind of grey hat techniques that work now and impress people but gradually get detected and penalized by Google over time. Unfortunately this kind of stuff often works, until it incurs a penalty. Instead, reputable SEO will likely involve building content around keyword groups. Think blogging about keyword1 and keyword3, another entry involving keyword2 and keyword4, etc. Make it informational, make it share-able, and avoid spamminess.

It sounds like you're in a difficult spot, your client is likely to continue down this road despite your objections. I hope you have some success steering them towards proper SEO and more traffic.

[1]http://moz.com/beginners-guide-to-seo/myths-and-misconceptio...

[2]http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/avoid-keyword-stuffing/

[3]http://moz.com/learn/seo/meta-description

[4]http://searchengineland.com/facebooks-open-graph-for-local-s...

cubicle67
Thanks heaps for this. I think one of the problems is that they expect when they hire an expensive "expert" they then trust that expert's advice, same as they would advice from a lawyer or accountant. Me coming along and saying "No! don't do that" comes off to them the same as if I complained about advice from their accountant.

The above links are good and I'll read them when I get a break and apss them along. As for the hiding elements, I just plain said I wouldn't do it, but the rest I've less grounds on which to object. In short, I want them to do what's best for them

kromodor
Google is moving into semantic searches. Stuffing was bad and in recent times got even worse. I mean, do those guys like...I mean... do they even use Adwords Planner?

We recently made a WP based site who hit #1 in local kws, getting in front of Wikipedia even. But what we did was an experiment (100% white) and until we try it out on international, to confirm, I can't share.

Google is moving past stages where simple gaming doesn't give meaningful results anymore.

solost
Honestly, that SEO firm should be taken to court for fraud. The advice is malicious and anyone who knows anything knows it will do material damage to the performance of the website costing the company revenue, branding and opportunity. Just because someone claims to be an expert doesn't make them one and it certainly doesn't make them good at what they do. I would check their references and look for horror stories based on the advice they are providing they must have a lot of unhappy customers out there and unhappy people like to complain on the internet.