I'm personally a huge fan of Chicago in the midwest. If I had to choose anywhere other than the bay area, it would be chicago...if it weren't for the weather!
Chicago coud inflect. The housing price gradient is insane. Way more than Detroit. You could make hundreds of millions by spending low millions to buy entire neighborhoods and start incubators.
These "Silicon Valley of [insert city]" articles are tiresome. Notwithstanding the fact that Silicon Valley doesn't represent the same thing to everyone, these articles tend to gloss over a number of facts:
1. "Silicon Valley" basically covers the area from San Francisco to San Jose. There are also a growing number of companies in the East Bay. "Silicon Valley" is not a city, it's a sizable (and effectively growing) geographic region.
2. While startups are a prominent part of "Silicon Valley" lore, most startups fail and are incredibly vulnerable to economic cycles. Dozens of large companies are the glue that hold Silicon Valley together. There is a revolving door between these large, established companies and startups and it provides a talent pool to startups and safety net to tech workers that no other region can currently match. Attracting "startups" to your city is the easy part; attracting (or organically growing) the big companies is the hard part.
3. Not only is there more money for tech investment in Silicon Valley, there are more sources of it. One side of Sand Hill Road probably has more venture firms ready to write checks to technology startups than most cities have in total. That's not going to change any time soon.
4. While the percentage of total employed persons in the Bay Area who work in tech is much higher than the national average, it's still below 10%. The economy here is incredibly diverse and there are plenty of people earning good money in other industries like law, finance and medicine. In fact, a lot of folks working in these fields in the Bay Area make more than the average tech worker. Without this kind of strong broad-based economy, a city or region won't be able to replicate "Silicon Valley."
No it could not. Admittedly I only skimmed the article, but from what I can tell you could say the same "civic booster club" kinds of things about 50 other cities in the Midwest. Lots of other cities also have some minor little incubator activity going (which will never, ever make any of them the Silicon Valley of anything, by the way), and almost all, or let's just go ahead and say ALL, of those other cities are not nearly as much of a spiraling hell-hole as Detroit. God bless them Detroiters for trying to keep hope alive, but… no.
In the film industry, you always hear about some other city being the next Hollywood. The problem is, it's an industry, not a city. If you want to make blockbuster movies, the entire area there is built around providing the services to do all that. If you need a special, weird prop, they've got a guy who has two of them or can make you one in an hour.
The same is true in Silicon Valley. You need some special coding or hardware, they've got a whole subdivision of those guys on 24-hour call. No problem.
You don't find that in any other city for those two industries. You wouldn't want to start a wheat operation in San Francisco but cause they don't have the tools sitting in a store down the street with 10 farmers who know how to use it. Go to Kansas, young man.
This isn't exactly a fair comparison as it compares physical goods with skilled labor.
If everyone believed this statement to be true, there'd probably not be a silicon valley as everyone would be working out of NoVa area, since that's where you'd have to go if you wanted internet.
The rise of Seattle, multiple locations in California, Austin, and many many other cities in the tech scene proves that silicon valley has no stranglehold over the industry. They are just the loudest, and perhaps the richest :).
Concerning property prices, San Francisco has already felt the pain of the mass influx, as is Austin now and to a lesser extent Seattle. I for one would love to see more options pop up. I do see your point, but hope you're wrong
I'm making no comparison to physical goods except the wheat one. Yes, I'd bet you can grow wheat in San Francisco and lots of films are made in places other than Hollywood but my point is you go where the people are and the people for those industries are in Silicon Valley and not Detroit.
And it is also the network effect in finding those folks, need someone to make a weird prop or some special effect or certain sound. Someone knows somebody who knows somebody. Until the that knowledge is disassociated with the human social network a place still has value. BTW, linkedin is not that disintermediary.
I have been to detroit, I wanted to live the batman detroit dream. Better to move to Utah, Arizona or New Mexico. High taxes, corruption. The place needs the peace corps.
Agreed. It's the technical knowledge and the institutional web that, until something causes it to weaken, only gets stronger and stronger each year. I lived in NYC and they said these same things for about three years... And now they've stopped saying it for some reason.
You are wrong. The difference is that with the Tech industry you can reach people without ever meeting them. The internet unites. With movie industry, you need a stunt man in your face, you need actors in your face, light hands in your face, etc. With software? Need a programmer that knows a special tool? He could be in Mars and you can reach him. All you have to do is network, networking can be done via Internet.
After reading this article I can tell that the author does not understand the problems going on in Detroit and has not even been there. The city is a 3rd world country. Besides the abandoned/burned out buildings and crime the city has serious business relation problems. There are no grocery stores within city limits because of lack of customers and local crime rates. Go to google maps and look for meijer, walmart, target, etc and none are in the city. This is a very unattractive position for both businesses and employees since most other cities do not have this problem. Shopping in Detroit is not convenient at all.
Add to that the high unemployment rate, the police problems, the near infinite amount of house and building fires, the poor public transit system and the total lack of bike lines. The only positive to Detroit is cheap land and buildings in many cases. Almost forgot about the city filing for bankruptcy too, that never inspires confidence.
Of course, perhaps you live in Detroit, and have 2014-era information, in which case you would know more than me. I merely decided to search for this because I recalled reading years ago this guy who wrote a blog article about his favourite Detroit supermarkets. (And the article above is that same guy. I suppose Detroit bloggers aren't that thick on the ground.) It certainly seems implausible that a city of 700,000 couldn't support at least one centrally-located food shop.
(I live in a city in the UK, population 500,000, and it has numerous grocery stores. As well as the ones I usually visit, there's one a mile away from my house - a decent size one to boot - that I never even knew existed until last month. I just drove down one particular side street to look at a house that was for sale... and there it was. You don't need a huge catchment area to support a grocery store, it seems.)
None of this is to suggest that Detroit is or isn't some hellhole...
It seems like the problem is simply that there aren't any national grocery chains active in Detroit. That may be unusual, but it's something of a far cry from there being no grocery stores at all.
People are mammals, not snakes. They need to eat! Where there are 700,000 people, no matter how much many of them live in poverty, you can be certain that there is enough demand for food to support at least one grocery store...
> you can be certain that there is enough demand for food to support at least one grocery store...
People need food, but grocery stores aren't the only place to get it. I can't speak about Detroit specifically, but it is common for inner city neighborhoods to only have fast food restaurants and "corner stores" -- glorified convenience stores that make most of their money on tobacco, alcohol, and lottery tickets, but happen to have some food as well. They are a far cry from what most people would call a grocery store (even compared to smaller ones like Aldi, Trader Joe's, or Piggly Wiggly).
Now, there may be a grocery store 15 minutes away by car, but that distance becomes significantly more troublesome when you have to take a bus.
Wrong, just wrong. It'd be easier for whomever wants to get a more accurate picture to Google articles about Detroit from the last few years. Dan Gilbert is igniting a change. It's not going to happen overnight. I grew up in METRO Detroit (cannot claim the D), but just throughout MI and especially my peers (I'm 24), there seems to be a more optimistic attitude about Detroit's future. I'm not a natural optimist, either. I would have maybe agreed with you two years ago. Dan Gilbert is probably the biggest reason I disagree with you now.
I'm hopeful, but far from guaranteeing anything. It's just not NEARLY as bad as you've described. My 23 year old friend recently moved into an apartment downtime and his rent is already up almost 50% from last year. It may be anecdotal, but gentrification is without a doubt taking place. I'd be willing to bet that this will be the first year in a long time Detroit does not see a population decrease. If not this year, then next. Hope I'm not wrong! :D
I grew up in Troy (a suburb a half hour north of Detroit) and live in Detroit, on Virginia Park Street (between 2nd and Woodward, just north of West Grand Boulevard)
You couldn't be more wrong. M1 rail, an easy city to bike, Whole Foods in Midtown, etc.
Right now it's a playground for the late 20/early 30 set looking to get a foothold and meet someone, which is exactly what I've done. The city needs to focus on fixing the schools and providing more security, so that it's possible to have a family in Detroit. That will come in time.
A suburb. Not Detroit proper. The only thing in Detroit (besides downtown) are mini marts. They don't sell food.
The largest "grocery store" I went to sold canned food, pasta, etc but at prices 2x to 4x what we would pay. There is a huge ghetto tax in place. A can of refried beans was over $3. And this place looked respectable, for Detroit, meaning no lotto tickets or bulletproof glass.
I guess I'm confused. Where (besides downtown) do you actually mean then? Downtown has plenty like the Supermercado, Honeybee, etc. As you start to go out, hit Grosse Pointe, Hamtramck, etc. there's quite a few as well (and the prices were pretty reasonable). So...can you be more specific about where there aren't grocery stores so there can be a reasonable discussion with concrete data?
I'd have to dig up my notes. I was there in Sept for the auction for 10 days, drove a couple hundred miles over a couple days, just in Detroit. I probably went through Hamtramck a couple times, Grosse Pointe had almost no foreclosures.
I didn't buy anything, for a myriad of reasons. Nearly everything was ruined, could get something on the open market for lower marginal cost of repair. The only homes, and I say homes, worth buying were those clearly occupied, all by old people that had lived there for many years. I am not going to be that person.
I'm in Detroit right now, Midtown is not really a suburb at all, it is 1.4 miles from downtown according to Google Maps. Midtown, which houses Wayne State, has all the amenities a urban state college would have, including a grocery store. There is also a fantastic supermarket in Mexicantown.
Detroit is a very interesting place. There are bombed out sections I would hate to go to, but there are also great areas such as Eastern Market, Midtown, the Riverwalk etc. Some areas are extremely hospitable to biking on the road, but the custom is to ride on the sidewalk. Other areas have very nice bike trails. It's one of the most interesting cities I've been to. The dichotomy of buildings being destroyed next to areas in which young people are attempting to revive the city is impressive to watch.
I'd consider Midtown and the Whole Foods as downtown.
It is interesting, everyone I talked to was great. Way safer than Chicago (probably cuz everyone is gone, ;)
The one thing that really surprised me was that all the black people I talked to WANTED white kids to move to the city and bring it back. They weren't worried about gentrification, they were more worried about decay.
The property taxes are too high and are pushing old people onto the street. 5k a year was not uncommon for taxes on lots of places I looked at. Rent would barely cover the taxes, leaving nothing for upkeep, so a rental market is not viable. I applaud the move at the next auction to require local buyers.
That's true, but it's coming back up from the ashes. Detroit hasn't made a come back yet. So it will take time for things to improve, the surburbs are not bad. I live in Oakland county, which is one of the richest counties in US, with great schools too. Number 9 high school in US is in Troy, MI.
Even tho I live in the surburbs, I got a coworking space downtown. I don't care for downtown life, and like space/houses. If not, I do move downtown. To get to downtown takes me about 15-25 minutes. Where I live is safe, has grocery stores, very low crimes, lots of parks, great city, cheap property. Detroit area is a great buy!
I bought my house for low 5 figures and it's paid off. 4 bedroom, 1/2 acre backyard, 3 car garage, $1200/yr property tax. No mortgage! My salary is a bit lower than my peers in Silicon Valley. I definitely save more than them.
So yes, Detroit the city outside of downtown might not offer much, but that doesn't mean that one should stay away. You can move Downtown or the surburbs. The positive move is spreading from downtown outwards.
Paul Graham[1] and many others have covered the unique challenges in recreating Silicon Valley elsewhere. It seems like the author didn't address some obvious holes in Detroit that prevent it from becoming a world class focal point instead of an outpost for a handful of companies.
[1]Some old PG essays about factors to create a "Silicon Valley":
I am in the city often and there are some damned interesting companies getting created. I was born in Detroit and have watched it all my adult life, first as it slid down hill and then the numerous attempts by well meaning people to bring it back. Detroit finally has lots of forward momentum and I don't believe the forward motion will stall anytime soon.
But Detroit will never become what it was in my youth. Richest city in the world, best public big city school system in the United States. Heck the auto industry will never be what it was back then either. But it can be a healthy city with full employment, but its going to take time. It took fifty years to hit rock bottom and at least that long to fully recover.
I tell college students that there is both risk and opportunity in Detroit. If you want the safe choice it's probably not where you want to go. But if you want to skip a few steps in your career rise along with a higher risk of failure then it's one of the best places.
Forget the Silicon Valley comparisons. Lets Detroit be Detroit. Don't accept the ruin porn pictures, check it out for yourself.
> I tell college students that there is both risk and opportunity in Detroit. If you want the safe choice it's probably not where you want to go. But if you want to skip a few steps in your career rise along with a higher risk of failure then it's one of the best places.
I expressed this exact sentiment at a conference a year ago where the topic was about keeping great talent here (Detroit/Michigan/Midwest) instead of losing it to the coasts. Basically, you could go be a cog in the Google machine, or you could stay here and drive something new to success. Of course you're taking risks; big names missing on your resume, a six figure starting salary, winter. There are benefits though; you get to set the culture, much lower cost of living, and fall here is awesome.
With the bankruptcy in motion I think locals now feel that Detroit has finally hit bottom and can now work its way back to something better. It's not going to be the next Silicon Valley, but with the increased interest from younger generations it's going to be something more than it has been in a while, growing.
I grew up in a suburb south of Detroit, graduated high school in the early 80's. Many of my neighbors, and parents of friends, were involved in the auto industry in some form or fashion. If we weren't making cars, we were making pieces of cars, chemicals for making pieces of cars, machines for making and repairing cars, and so forth.
There seemed to be an inexorable cycle: During good times, we'd be making cars like crazy. Civic leaders all warned that we shouldn't be so dependent on one industry. "The Silicon Valley of the Midwest" was mentioned as early as I can remember.
During bad times, the car plants would shut down. Civic leaders said that we shouldn't be so dependent on one industry.
When things turned back around, we always went back to making cars like crazy. And pieces of cars, etc. Civic leaders breathed a sigh of relief but warned that we shouldn't be so dependent on one industry.
So, if Detroit is picking up right now, I'll wonder the same thing that I've wondered before: Is it just because there is more demand for cars again, and everything else is just a trickle down from making cars again, and pieces of cars? Or is it something else?
If anyone is interested, Detroit Labs[1] is a SF statup-esque software development company in Detroit. Not everything in Detroit is a shithole like the news will have you believe, Quicken loans recently moved to the city and brought a ton of jobs and their are some very nice areas of the city. I just yesterday attended a hackathon[2] for the Detroit Public Library that had many attendants.
Detroit is a great place (I live and work Downtown). It is definitely on an upswing.
However, like other commenters have said calling it the "next Silicon Valley" is a bit disingenuous. The whole regional economy is still very tied to manufacturing (particularly automotive manufacturing). I don't see a drastic change to technology or any other economic sector happening in the near future. I work at a software consultancy in Detroit and almost every project I have worked on has been tied to various parts of the auto industry.
I think other midwest cities like Chicago or even nearby Ann Arbor are much further along the path of being "Silicone Valley-esque"
That is not downtown, though. Growing downtown and renovating the exterior with whatever is inevitable. Have to start with downtown and grow. That is a 35 minute bus ride from downtown.
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[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 104 ms ] thread1. "Silicon Valley" basically covers the area from San Francisco to San Jose. There are also a growing number of companies in the East Bay. "Silicon Valley" is not a city, it's a sizable (and effectively growing) geographic region.
2. While startups are a prominent part of "Silicon Valley" lore, most startups fail and are incredibly vulnerable to economic cycles. Dozens of large companies are the glue that hold Silicon Valley together. There is a revolving door between these large, established companies and startups and it provides a talent pool to startups and safety net to tech workers that no other region can currently match. Attracting "startups" to your city is the easy part; attracting (or organically growing) the big companies is the hard part.
3. Not only is there more money for tech investment in Silicon Valley, there are more sources of it. One side of Sand Hill Road probably has more venture firms ready to write checks to technology startups than most cities have in total. That's not going to change any time soon.
4. While the percentage of total employed persons in the Bay Area who work in tech is much higher than the national average, it's still below 10%. The economy here is incredibly diverse and there are plenty of people earning good money in other industries like law, finance and medicine. In fact, a lot of folks working in these fields in the Bay Area make more than the average tech worker. Without this kind of strong broad-based economy, a city or region won't be able to replicate "Silicon Valley."
5. California's weather can't be beat.
Chicago has a much bigger tech sector, including satellite campuses of silicon valley tech giants like Google.
Kansas City seems to have stronger entrepreneurial support, including being home to the Kauffman Foundation and Google Fiber.
The same is true in Silicon Valley. You need some special coding or hardware, they've got a whole subdivision of those guys on 24-hour call. No problem.
You don't find that in any other city for those two industries. You wouldn't want to start a wheat operation in San Francisco but cause they don't have the tools sitting in a store down the street with 10 farmers who know how to use it. Go to Kansas, young man.
I have been to detroit, I wanted to live the batman detroit dream. Better to move to Utah, Arizona or New Mexico. High taxes, corruption. The place needs the peace corps.
Add to that the high unemployment rate, the police problems, the near infinite amount of house and building fires, the poor public transit system and the total lack of bike lines. The only positive to Detroit is cheap land and buildings in many cases. Almost forgot about the city filing for bankruptcy too, that never inspires confidence.
Of course, perhaps you live in Detroit, and have 2014-era information, in which case you would know more than me. I merely decided to search for this because I recalled reading years ago this guy who wrote a blog article about his favourite Detroit supermarkets. (And the article above is that same guy. I suppose Detroit bloggers aren't that thick on the ground.) It certainly seems implausible that a city of 700,000 couldn't support at least one centrally-located food shop.
(I live in a city in the UK, population 500,000, and it has numerous grocery stores. As well as the ones I usually visit, there's one a mile away from my house - a decent size one to boot - that I never even knew existed until last month. I just drove down one particular side street to look at a house that was for sale... and there it was. You don't need a huge catchment area to support a grocery store, it seems.)
None of this is to suggest that Detroit is or isn't some hellhole...
>Detroit just watched its last mainstream grocer, Farmer Jack, close its doors for good.
[1] http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1247787...
People are mammals, not snakes. They need to eat! Where there are 700,000 people, no matter how much many of them live in poverty, you can be certain that there is enough demand for food to support at least one grocery store...
People need food, but grocery stores aren't the only place to get it. I can't speak about Detroit specifically, but it is common for inner city neighborhoods to only have fast food restaurants and "corner stores" -- glorified convenience stores that make most of their money on tobacco, alcohol, and lottery tickets, but happen to have some food as well. They are a far cry from what most people would call a grocery store (even compared to smaller ones like Aldi, Trader Joe's, or Piggly Wiggly).
Now, there may be a grocery store 15 minutes away by car, but that distance becomes significantly more troublesome when you have to take a bus.
First one that came to mind was the Whole Foods [1] next to the hospital. They look to be doing very well from the hospital employees.
[1] https://www.google.com/maps/place/Whole+Foods+Market/@42.349...
I'm hopeful, but far from guaranteeing anything. It's just not NEARLY as bad as you've described. My 23 year old friend recently moved into an apartment downtime and his rent is already up almost 50% from last year. It may be anecdotal, but gentrification is without a doubt taking place. I'd be willing to bet that this will be the first year in a long time Detroit does not see a population decrease. If not this year, then next. Hope I'm not wrong! :D
You couldn't be more wrong. M1 rail, an easy city to bike, Whole Foods in Midtown, etc.
Right now it's a playground for the late 20/early 30 set looking to get a foothold and meet someone, which is exactly what I've done. The city needs to focus on fixing the schools and providing more security, so that it's possible to have a family in Detroit. That will come in time.
The largest "grocery store" I went to sold canned food, pasta, etc but at prices 2x to 4x what we would pay. There is a huge ghetto tax in place. A can of refried beans was over $3. And this place looked respectable, for Detroit, meaning no lotto tickets or bulletproof glass.
I didn't buy anything, for a myriad of reasons. Nearly everything was ruined, could get something on the open market for lower marginal cost of repair. The only homes, and I say homes, worth buying were those clearly occupied, all by old people that had lived there for many years. I am not going to be that person.
Detroit is a very interesting place. There are bombed out sections I would hate to go to, but there are also great areas such as Eastern Market, Midtown, the Riverwalk etc. Some areas are extremely hospitable to biking on the road, but the custom is to ride on the sidewalk. Other areas have very nice bike trails. It's one of the most interesting cities I've been to. The dichotomy of buildings being destroyed next to areas in which young people are attempting to revive the city is impressive to watch.
It is interesting, everyone I talked to was great. Way safer than Chicago (probably cuz everyone is gone, ;)
The one thing that really surprised me was that all the black people I talked to WANTED white kids to move to the city and bring it back. They weren't worried about gentrification, they were more worried about decay.
The property taxes are too high and are pushing old people onto the street. 5k a year was not uncommon for taxes on lots of places I looked at. Rent would barely cover the taxes, leaving nothing for upkeep, so a rental market is not viable. I applaud the move at the next auction to require local buyers.
Even tho I live in the surburbs, I got a coworking space downtown. I don't care for downtown life, and like space/houses. If not, I do move downtown. To get to downtown takes me about 15-25 minutes. Where I live is safe, has grocery stores, very low crimes, lots of parks, great city, cheap property. Detroit area is a great buy!
I bought my house for low 5 figures and it's paid off. 4 bedroom, 1/2 acre backyard, 3 car garage, $1200/yr property tax. No mortgage! My salary is a bit lower than my peers in Silicon Valley. I definitely save more than them.
So yes, Detroit the city outside of downtown might not offer much, but that doesn't mean that one should stay away. You can move Downtown or the surburbs. The positive move is spreading from downtown outwards.
[1]Some old PG essays about factors to create a "Silicon Valley":
2006: http://www.paulgraham.com/siliconvalley.html
2009: http://www.paulgraham.com/maybe.html
I am in the city often and there are some damned interesting companies getting created. I was born in Detroit and have watched it all my adult life, first as it slid down hill and then the numerous attempts by well meaning people to bring it back. Detroit finally has lots of forward momentum and I don't believe the forward motion will stall anytime soon.
But Detroit will never become what it was in my youth. Richest city in the world, best public big city school system in the United States. Heck the auto industry will never be what it was back then either. But it can be a healthy city with full employment, but its going to take time. It took fifty years to hit rock bottom and at least that long to fully recover.
I tell college students that there is both risk and opportunity in Detroit. If you want the safe choice it's probably not where you want to go. But if you want to skip a few steps in your career rise along with a higher risk of failure then it's one of the best places.
Forget the Silicon Valley comparisons. Lets Detroit be Detroit. Don't accept the ruin porn pictures, check it out for yourself.
I expressed this exact sentiment at a conference a year ago where the topic was about keeping great talent here (Detroit/Michigan/Midwest) instead of losing it to the coasts. Basically, you could go be a cog in the Google machine, or you could stay here and drive something new to success. Of course you're taking risks; big names missing on your resume, a six figure starting salary, winter. There are benefits though; you get to set the culture, much lower cost of living, and fall here is awesome.
With the bankruptcy in motion I think locals now feel that Detroit has finally hit bottom and can now work its way back to something better. It's not going to be the next Silicon Valley, but with the increased interest from younger generations it's going to be something more than it has been in a while, growing.
There seemed to be an inexorable cycle: During good times, we'd be making cars like crazy. Civic leaders all warned that we shouldn't be so dependent on one industry. "The Silicon Valley of the Midwest" was mentioned as early as I can remember.
During bad times, the car plants would shut down. Civic leaders said that we shouldn't be so dependent on one industry.
When things turned back around, we always went back to making cars like crazy. And pieces of cars, etc. Civic leaders breathed a sigh of relief but warned that we shouldn't be so dependent on one industry.
So, if Detroit is picking up right now, I'll wonder the same thing that I've wondered before: Is it just because there is more demand for cars again, and everything else is just a trickle down from making cars again, and pieces of cars? Or is it something else?
[1] http://www.detroitlabs.com/
[2] http://www.automationalley.com/a2_nws_eventinfo?id=a08600000...
However, like other commenters have said calling it the "next Silicon Valley" is a bit disingenuous. The whole regional economy is still very tied to manufacturing (particularly automotive manufacturing). I don't see a drastic change to technology or any other economic sector happening in the near future. I work at a software consultancy in Detroit and almost every project I have worked on has been tied to various parts of the auto industry.
I think other midwest cities like Chicago or even nearby Ann Arbor are much further along the path of being "Silicone Valley-esque"
This is right on the main street into downtown. It's really sad.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Title+Source,+662+Woodward+A...