Alternatively, call, say you want to cancel, and if they give you shit just claim firmly you are unhappy with the service representative and hang up. With any luck they were recorded / reviewed. Just move on to the next guy.
Of course, usually these numbers are paid, so you pay a small fortune just to get to call someone that will do his job.
"I've recently discovered God, and decided to disconnect from the Internet, as it is the tool of Satan. Tell me, have you accepted Jesus Christ as your savior?"
Can't he do a chargeback on his credit card for the bill and then send the credit card folks a recording of this?
Gyms are typically known for making it extremely hard to cancel, like requiring you to snail mail a notice and even then acting as if they never got it.
I did a stop payment on a gym years ago and they never contacted me, so that seemed to take care of it. They had refused to cancel me just through talking to them so I felt vindicated.
My wife just recently canceled a gym membership, and actually got no hassle. No written letter needed, nothing. Just a comment about how they were sorry she was leaving and hope to see you again one day. It was perfect customer service.
Chargebacks are no different than simply ceasing to send in payments for a service: It sounds pat, but can haunt you years later when massive penalties and interest appear on your credit report.
Source please? Every time I've filed a chargeback on my credit card (American Express), they have been completely transparent with the status of it. When I submit the chargeback, I'm credited the amount of it. If I lose it, I also lose that credit, and I owe the amount of the chargeback.
Are you saying that comcast will negatively affect your credit score because you submit a chargeback to them after they failed to cancel your service?
Your credit card company is not an arbiter of contracts. They are nothing more than a payment method, and the only reason they have any process whatsoever is to try to maintain relations with the vendors who they also deal with.
If you have a contract with a vendor, decide that you don't like the product any more and decide to cancel through a chargeback, that has literally zero influence on the status of the contract with the vendor. You've simply failed to make a payment. Whether the credit card company likes your recording or not is irrelevant.
So those vendors, which in this case is Comcast, can absolutely destroy your credit rating in such a case. I mention this because invariably when payment disputes come up, someone says to just do a chargeback, yet this is no different than simply deciding to stop paying for something.
I'd always figured that one of the conditions of being able to accept a particular type of card was accepting their judgement in chargeback situations. Huh.
This recording would make a pretty effective "I dispute the debt" piece of evidence, regardless.
If Comcast sues you for payment then you go to court (or more likely to an arbiter chosen by Comcast since that's what you agreed to in your contract) where evidence matters.
But instead of that, Comcast simply reports you to the credit bureaus for non-payment. The law gives them immunity for doing so -- even if they submitted intentionally false information for malicious reasons, you can't sue them for libel. And you credit score affects your ability to function in US society: it is used for all granting of credit, for deciding whether to allow you to open a checking account, for deciding whether to hire you at a job -- it is so significant that you are forced to care. You can open a dispute of facts with the credit reporting agencies, but be prepared to spend large amounts of time doing so.
Yes, they'll send you to collections. The collections company will take their word that the debt is valid and try to contact you. Until you pay them, they will report the debt on your credit. If you manage to convince them the debt is invalid, you will still have to separately convince all three credit agencies to remove the listing. Comcast's large bureaucratic collections department will just send you to a different collections agency until you pay up. You can then get a lawyer to stop them, but comcast won't just back down. They'll reply to the lawsuit until a judgement is given. This will cost thousands of dollars to complete.
The other alternative is to play their game with their customer service and get them to agree to properly cancel the service.
Are you saying that comcast will negatively affect your credit score because you submit a chargeback to them after they failed to cancel your service?
I believe that is indeed what the parent post meant. If you do a chargeback, that just means you did not pay the Comcast (or whatever) bill. Comcast will likely not treat that any different than if you didn't pay, if they feel the bill is valid; your account will be sent to collections, and also show up negatively on your credit report.
Dealing with small contract issues like that with a large, bureaucratic company can be like cutting your nose off to spite your face; you cause yourself more long-term damage. You may be 100% in the right, just like a pedestrian in a crosswalk; it is still in your benefit to dodge the bus.
IANAL, but in a contract dispute, at least with a small-ish charge, the best course is to pay the bill (under protest/duress; you can indicate such in the comment on the check). Then file in small-claims court. I would reserve chargebacks to companies that have scammed you (not just crappy businesses, like Comcast/etc.), fraud / identify theft, etc.
Of course, ideally you would want to get the issue cleared up before going down that route, as well.
No, stopping payments is the same as ceasing to send in payments.
The chargeback is a contractual dispute resolution process. The consumer says they shouldn't have to pay for a valid reason. The merchant gets to provide evidence otherwise. A decision is made and both parties have agreed in advance (via the merchant agreement and cardholder agreements) to be bound by that decision. This is one of the consumer protections that make using plastic safer than using cash/checks.
Outside of the vendor's relationship with the credit card company, a chargeback is identical to ceasing payment. The credit card company has zero control or influence over contract disputes. At best they can threaten a vendor relationship for disregarding their arbitration (which vendors will do simply because they have to pay somewhere in the range of $700 to pursue), but they won't and don't do that.
So you can find stories by the thousands of people who won a chargeback, and then were hounded by collections and ruined credit. Because Visa and Mastercard don't overrule contract law.
Credit cards are safer/more powerful simply because money is influencing, and he who controls the money controls the relationship. They don't override contract law, however.
Chargeback? First lesson in dealing with known-awful companies: don't ever let them set you up on automatic payments. Even if they make it convenient. Even if they discount your bill a couple of dollars.
It's much easier to cancel service or dispute a bill when they don't have the ability to pull money out of your checking account without your explicit monthly approval.
I've had Comcast service more than once, and I'm with them now. In the past, I left them for AT&T DSL because the price/speed ratio was sensible enough to make it worth switching. When I called Comcast to cancel service, I didn't run into anything like this. The rep did try to convince me to stay, but after I explained that I didn't need 12Mbps (the max Comcast offered at that time in my area) they capitulated and canceled the service. It was maybe a three minute conversation at most.
I ended up going back to Comcast a few years ago, when they advertised 25Mbps for the price I was paying for 6Mbps on DSL, so it made sense to go back. Now I wonder, if I were to try to cancel today, would I get the same hassle as this guy? I'm betting so; they are probably trying to retain as many customers as possible leading up to the upcoming merger.
I've heard multiple times now that it's hard to cancel contracts at various providers, but I don't really see how this is an issue.
If the official way (according to the contract) to cancel a contract is a phone call, what difference does it make if the remote party accepts this cancellation? Just state that you are cancelling the contract, make sure to get a recording (if legal in your jurisdiction) and chargeback all unauthorized future credit card charges.
Yeah, of course this guy didn't have to put up with a phone call like this. Comcast has bad service, but I highly doubt this is the norm. He could have hung up and called again, no problem. But he stayed on the phone because after ten minutes, he was already drooling thinking about sending this recording to his buddies at Techcrunch.
So yeah, maybe he's a bit needlessly overdramatic about this, but personally I'm thankful for the entertainment.
The guy who he was talking to works for Comcast, is pursuing Comcast goals (which aggressively punishes agents who don't have high enough retention rates), and is recorded and often monitored by Comcast. The Comcast agent clearly has a list of complaints/responses that they use to try to defuse all complaints -- not that they've actually solved your problem, but rather that they made you think the call was no longer worth it and just give up trying to cancel.
Their entire job as retention agents is to waste enough of your time, and try to press enough buttons, that you give up.
The whole "I am waiting for the system to complete the process, so listen to my arguments while we wait" nonsense, for instance. Credit card companies do the same thing for activations, using the "waiting for the system to finish" to pitch insurance and other unwanted products.
This is a problem. This is a major problem. This is why so many services allow you to sign up in seconds online, but require long, drawn out waste-of-time phone calls to cancel. To force you through this gauntlet, making most just forget about it.
Cynically claiming that this guy manufactured this situation betrays logic of this situation. He dealt with what is a profound problem that most customers deal with.
I was able to cancel my account with comcast, just two weeks ago, in under twenty minutes.
Are you saying that if he had hung up, and called again, he would have faced an equally long phone call?
My point is that he did not have to put up with this. Obviously there are going to be some bad apples amongst the thousands of comcast customer service employees. He could have hung up on this guy, called back, and gotten a much more reasonable employee to cancel his account.
Twenty minutes? Did you maybe intend to say twenty second? Because twenty minutes sounds rather terrible.
Secondly, realize that this guy's entire job is to do exactly what he did: This is what Comcast trains him to do; It's what they pay him to do; His rewards are based upon him doing exactly what he did. His role is not to fulfill your cancellation request, but to do everything possible to stop you from cancelling.
Bad apple? He is probably the star of Comcast's retention department. Comcast will probably play this tape as training material.
Yeah, I was mostly joking about that, because bragging that it took 20 minutes is silly. I noticed it said he didn't begin recording until 10 minutes in, but the 8:14 was funnier ;)
Besides, the ~18 minutes is still faster than the parent poster's claim.
In twenty minutes, at my hourly rate, I earn roughly:
- the entire hourly-equivalent salary of a new high school teacher (average, US) or
- enough to pay for my entire Starbucks consumption for over a week or
- enough to pay for almost two of my family's "luxuries" (netflix and one other service) or
- enough to pay for the entire quantity of gas I use every month or
- almost certainly double (or more) of the Comcast Rep's wage
This isn't meant to brag but to put in perspective what twenty minutes is worth via a common valuation (money). The lower the socioeconomic class, the more twenty minutes is actually worth, because they tend to have to work more hours to make ends meet, and thus their free time, unit for unit, ought to be valued more highly than mine.
> This is a major problem. This is why so many services allow you to sign up in seconds online, but require long, drawn out waste-of-time phone calls to cancel.
And that is why businesses should push for legislation making it illegal. It is rare for me to sign up for a service using my credit card, and I'm not the only one. The bottom feeders make it hard for legitimate companies to get customers.
Hanging up and calling back does work but it can be time consuming. I once spent an entire day calling and hanging up on Comcast in order to fix a problem (I knew what the problem was, but they wouldn't listen because it wasn't part of their script). When I got a rep that listened, it was fixed in 20 seconds, but I had literally just wasted my entire day already.
And then they'll eventually send your account to collections, where it will be an even bigger pain to straighten out.
Something similar happened to me with AT&T (now Comcast, I believe) in Chicago. I was moving away so I canceled service, returned my equipment in person and even got a receipt! But someone forgot to log something somewhere, so they kept sending me bills. For months, I kept calling and (foolishly) believed them when they said it would be straightened out soon... until they threatened to send my account to collections.
In the end, it took a letter to the office of the CEO with the whole story and a copy of my receipt to fix things (and if it hadn't I'd already started researching my legal options).
Exact same thing happened to me with AT&T, and when someone informed me it was sent to collections, I informed them they would be hearing from a lawyer if it wasn't resolved in the next 24 hours. This was after I had documented proof that it had been paid. These companies are abysmal.
The last time that happened to me, collections took one look at the notes on the account, apologised, informed me that his manager was now writing an extremely annoyed email to billing, and had it fixed before I was off the phone.
Collections tend to be more likely to play hardball, but they often also tend to contain smarter humans. Sometimes this helps.
I did this once, and was impressed with how intelligent, friendly, and helpful the collections agency was.
Unfortunately, billing responded to the collections agency by yanking the debt back from that collections agency and referring it to another, meaning I had to start all over again. I don't know if that's against the rules, but it didn't seem fair and certainly wasn't nice.
Comcast ran the same scheme on me when I cancelled. Sent me to collections for "unreturned equipment" after sending me a receipt confirming receipt of equipment. My assumption was that it was retaliatory since I had the bank stop payment on a recurring monthly charge they billed me for after I had cancelled my service. Took months to sort out. Stuck on DSL now, but when you count the time I don't have to talk to Comcast, it still feels fast.
Also chiming in: same thing happened to me, but they sent my account to collections without notifying me first.
When I was on the phone with the collections agent, I was very polite and told her I knew she was just doing her job. I then got her to admit that this sort of thing happens all the time with AT&T, and that a lot of her phone calls go the same way.
Since then I've suspected that AT&T's practices go beyond mere incompetence and into abusive territory.
I doubt there is any kind of actual contract in play, so either party can choose cancel the relationship at any time. I would just send a written notice in addition to making sure they've heard about the cancellation on the phone (and recorded it). As long as they've been reasonably notified, you're not buying their services anymore.
Big business (and especially the collections agencies they usually send this kind of supposed "debt" to) love to say a lot of things, but that doesn't make it legal.
So they claim some account is "in collections", implying you have some sort of debt to them. If they say that publicly[1] and that hurts some future opportunity due to the "bad reputation", then a libel (or slander, as appropriate) lawsuit should be filed. While each case would be different[2], you create a lot of the mess by acknowledging their incorrect claims.
Business walk away from stuff all the time, and so can you. If any restrictions were desired, they should have been written into a proper contract beforehand.
incidentally; this is also why "identify theft" is a stupid term - nobody stole your identity, which is immutable. What someone did was defraud a bank to get money. You were not a party to that transaction (or crime). The fact that banks wan to be lazy ad not do proper background checks on people they loan money to does not give them the right to recover that money from a 3rd party, not does it put any amount of fault on that 3rd part). Calling such a situation "identify theft" instead of "lazy bank loses money and blame it on an innocent 3rd part" is a modern version of "they were asking for it" style victim blaming.
[1] I include Experian/Equifax/TransUnion/etc in this - despite. Saying something incorrect - with the purpose of advising another business that that you are probably an expensive risk - is the very definition of libel.
It is a huge problem, it's bullying people into staying with them. Not everyone would be capable or willing to go through what you say you should do.
If you're willing to go through it, good for you as it's a good form of protest (they'll get charged a lot for each chargeback). But if it ever gets to the stage where this it is now, it's totally broken.
Exactly, I can't believe they pay to be like that. They surely might train you to try and retain unsatisfied customers, but that employee looks like a bit too dedicated to the mission.
No, this guy works in the cancellations department, to which you are connected when you indicate that you want to cancel your service. That means it is his sole job to convince persons to not cancel the service. He also receives a bonus for every phone call he makes that does not result in a cancellation. For you it's 15 minutes of time wasted, for him it means 15 minutes of hard work that came very close to paying off.
There must be a business opportunity here. Connect people who hate dealing with this stuff to people like you who love being an asshole. They get their service canceled without dealing with crap on the phone, you get to play the bad guy, everybody wins.
Its called being a lawyer. Its more about form letters sent via registered mail and filing legal injunctions than talking on the phone.
A decade or so ago, I came within days of needing one merely to disconnect a DSL line.
Once the cost of fighting the collections agency and the cost of the hit to your credit record exceed the minimal cost of hiring the lawyer, its a pretty obvious move.
Not kidding around at all, although its probably a better topic for a law blog than HN.
The main problem they're likely to have is authentication. Helping people is fun. Helping people who like having fun by disconnecting other people (-ex's, etc) is a problem and you need to authenticate them cheaply.
The only thing you say at this point is "I request you to close my account effective immediately. Is my account closed yet?". Anything else you say (e.g. "You're the reason I'm leaving" or even "I'm moving to Mars") will be used as conversational leverage against you.
Other than that, have fun with it. I got a manipulative rep when I canceled Sirius and told her I already threw away the radio when she tried to extend the contract. She was not prepared for that. :)
I went through a situation similar to this with Dell about 8 years ago. The guy told me he had no supervisor and that I had to deal with him. I promptly recorded the call, called back and left a message of the call. The same fellow then called me back and said I was rude and let me speak to his supervisor. There is no way I would have spent this amount of time with this person. I would have gotten his name or recorded him refusing to give it to me and called back and promptly went straight to a supervisor and got this issue solved. Companies that have this kind of policy and are ok with these types of employees talking to customers like this quickly loose all their customers to competition as soon as their competition catches up in technology.
I couldn't cancel my Comcast service via phone because the automatic system hung up on me (I tried again the next day).
I just stopped paying (removed my credit card from the system), and after calling me multiple times about the outstanding charges, they eventually figured out that I wanted to cancel.
They still tried to bill me for the time between when I attempted to cancel and when the service was actually disconnected, even though I explained I was unwilling to pay this amount. Ultimately, they transferred the bill to a debt collection agency, and unfortunately I failed to dispute within 30 days (was traveling), so I ended up having to pay it.
Here in the Netherlands the situation got significantly better after a famous comedian (Youp van 't Hek) went completely public with the misery that ensued after calling t-mobile to get a problem fixed with his sons iPhone.
(http://www.nrcnext.nl/blog/2010/10/25/youp-vant-hek-brengt-t...)
T-mobile found themselves suddenly completely on the defensive in various TV-shows. They apologized profusely. It was very funny, things really got better.
I've cancelled Comcast a few times before when ATT had a better deal and it was never this bad. They usually try to give me a better deal but sorry I've made my decision thats why I am calling, if you gave me a better rate to begin with I might not be leaving.
With Comcast you can usually just hang up and call again if you get an employee with an attitude. This method works with tech support too, hang up and try again if you get someone who just wants to keep reseting your router or doesn't have any idea.
I called Comcast trying to sign up for their top-tier service when I was working from home. The guy on the other side kept asking me what on earth I'd need the top tier service for and kept asking me questions. Then he scheduled the visit for the tech on the wrong date. Every time I deal with Comcast, it's a hassle.
I can't believe I got interrogated when I signed up for service. Worst customer service ever.
> With Comcast you can usually just hang up and call again if you get an employee with an attitude.
I'm guessing that this tactic might actually make the nice employees look bad. The employees with an attitude will have better customer retention metrics; then the nice customer service reps risk losing their jobs or also developing an attitude.
The point is that this tactic would be selecting against the nice reps in the long run. Of course, I can't think of any other tactic that wouldn't do so.
Understood, but my point is that it is their responsibility to select for nice reps, not ours. If their metrics combined with the natural customer reaction selects for bad reps, that's their fault and their problem.
It really depends on how intelligently companies run their retention metrics. Rather than measuring if a customer was retained for that phone call, it makes much more sense to measure which customers are retained after a month or so. Of course the first metric is easier to run; also large corporations "competing" in highly uncompetitive markets (internet, health insurance, etc.) have little incentive to provide any sort of reasonable, adequate customer service to begin with.
I'm amazed at how calm he remains during this. I would've called the guy - regardless of whether he's "just doing his job" - every name under the sun and probably threatened to pay him a visit in person...
That said, I guess if I were recording it to share on the Internet later, I might've been able to control myself slightly more than usual.
Just because they ask it doesn't mean you have to answer; I'd just say "I'm not continuing this conversation until you inform me you've canceled the service", then put the phone on speaker and do something else until he came around.
He wasn't answering the question over and over; he was refusing to answer the question.
Which is, of course, his right. And maybe it would turn out that the rep would refuse to recognize his answer. And there is some social value in there occasionally being a crank who refuses to play by the rules just to expose them for the silliness there is.
But realize he wasn't trying to get through this call easily. He was trying to make a point.
Maybe. But he says he started recording 10 minutes into the call, and that he and his wife (who started the call) were answering the rep's questions, but not getting anywhere.
This is a great example for how setting goals can do more harm than good. If you start measuring people, they'll optimize for what you are measuring.
I don't think that's fair to the caller. He was polite, and was clear in what he wanted. Had the Comcast agent said "Okay, I understand that you don't want to tell me that, let's move on" the call would have moved on and not ended up on the internet. He wanted his service cancelled, and did not want to engage in a conversation about it. How else could the caller have possibly handled it?
Also, the caller was not a "crank who refuses to play by the rules." There is no rule that says customers have to fill out a survey upon canceling service. It was clear to me that the Comcast agent was also not asking those questions honestly. He was using them as a rhetorical trick to get the customer to eventually say, "Fine, don't cancel my service."
How else could the caller have possibly handled it?
This is obvious: by answering the question. I'll repeat that he was under no obligation to answer that question.
My mother-in-law does the same thing this guy does: stands her ground and refuses to answer any questions. It's completely her right to engage in that manner, but she neither asks for nor gets any sympathy for how long she has to stay on the phone with people.
Maximally demanding all your rights all the time is usually not coincident with smooth interactions with other human beings.
Yes, but answering the first question would lead to a million other questions since the rep obviously set his mind on something from the start. He said he's moving to a different service, then the rep says why are you moving, don't you want the #1 internet & tv, etc.
If you had read the article properly, you would have seen that he did answer that question. The call went for 18 minutes, he answered the question at the start if the call: he states this.
He did answer the question, multiple times, just not in a way that the Comcast agent could use. Again, it was not an honest question. It was a rhetorical trick.
I think my answer (after being asked so many times) would be:
"I've had horrible customer support from a Comcast rep, and I don't want to continue to patronize a company that would hire someone who acts that way."
(The next logical step is to ask for the offending rep's name, to which he could respond "what was your name again?")
What's the retention angle from that point? Is it "I promise if you stay with us, I'll go right to my boss and have him fire me"?
The preamble text was pretty clear, this was 10 minutes into the call and after he had already answered these questions. They have a scripted response to every possible answer and none of them lead to "OK, we'll disconnect you" except for moving to an area they don't serve.
This guys have it rough. I used to call them a lot and I can't recall a single instance where I saw someone raising their voice had a better outcome. The only had a more stressful call.
The operator pushes it a lot but consider this: he is probably paid like shit and he probably get commission on how many customers he can retain. Maybe if he loses too many he can even lose his job. Knowing this and knowing that their job is extremely horrible(getting called names all day) what I see here is not the operator's fault at all. I see a person crushed by a job that he might be losing taking the blame for problems that he didn't cause(maybe in this instance but they often do). The only thing I have for someone like this is a kind word instead of rage. If you are unsatisfied at the end of the call, send a complaint letter about the service, do not take it on the operator.
(Obviously there are exceptions where the operators are just assholes)
It's not exactly working for the Spanish Inquisition. The guy was annoying and wasted 20 minutes of the client's time. I wouldn't say it's ethical, let's not overreact.
Very few people have the job flexibility that many of us here on HN have. This may be the best-paying job available to this person, or the only job they were able to get that they can effectively travel to -- regardless, given the unpleasant nature of the work, it's unreasonable to assume that they meaningfully "chose" the job without additional evidence.
I don't really care much for the commissions, or the livelihoods, of people who knowingly take jobs that make other people's lives worse. I know in some locales call-centre jobs are the best (in terms of compensation) they can get, and I'm sorry that that's the state of affairs the world is in, but if they're willing to make my life miserable to make theirs a bit better, they can put up with being shouted at from time to time.
Except it's more like they're willing to make your life a little more irritating in order to massively improve their lives and those of their dependents.
They may have it rough but there is no way I would take the kind of abuse that was on the recording.
Raising his voice and getting audibly angry would have likely shut down her incessant line of questioning pretty quickly.
It doesn't even have to be a genuine anger...I've done this quite a bit. If I am in a hurry and a service rep ever starts to pry questions into the conversation I just make a little huff and puff and they will generally decide to move the conversation along by just doing as I asked in the first place.
You don't have to be abusive to get your point across...just let them know you aren't listening to their bullshit.
I don't know how the situation for jobs in the US is but in Italy, where I had my experience, the people that do this job don't do it because it's their dream job but because they have bills to pay and finding "something better" is not always easy.
Job market isn't great here either (France, so not as bad as Italy), and I perfectly understand one taking a shitty job to support one's family.
Still, getting a job where you are paid with my money to harass me is not the way to get on my good side.
Either way, I never take those calls, and never take anonymous calls either, unless I'm looking for a job.
Beside, that kind of behavior from a company here (in France at least, and probably most of Europe) is probably illegal.
I think I'd try negotiating directly with the operator:
"How much commission do you get if I don't cancel? Oh, $50? Well, tell me your paypal or bitcoin address and I'll send you that much if you disconnect this right now..."
I generally find it's pretty effective to get very briefly loud and angry, and then say something like, "I'm very frustrated with this situation and I'm trying not to take it out on you," and resume politeness at that point. It seems to shock people out of their script a bit.
That said, I've never dealt with anyone quite as tenacious as the guy in that recording.
I just cancelled my Time Warner Internet a few minutes ago (switched to FiOS). The call took all of 8 minutes and the rep didn't put up a fight at all. I joked that it might actually be worth continuing to pay $50/month to avoid the hassle of canceling, so this left me pleasantly surprised.
Once I moved and realized I forgot to turn off my phone and DSL. The company did it in minutes over the cell phone. I was surprised, and a little worried, by how easy it was.
Cancellation isn't always a nightmare, even for companies with bad practices. But it's luck of the draw, and your luck can run out at any time, at least while government continues to stall on adequate consumer protections.
Comcast/Xfinity is the most dishonest company that i've ever been a customer with.
We signed up during a promotional deal and when the deal ended I got a bill for 2x+ what i normally pay. I called customer service and they explained that the roll-over from the promotional service into the new service was billed at the start of the month and the last bill from the promotion was at the end of the month. The net effect was a double billing.
When we called comcast to disconnect we got the same run around as to why we are disconnecting. It wasn't nearly as bad as this call however.
Honestly, the worst company ever. I will never do business with them again.
Any ideas why he actually wants to cancel? If it's for a lower price surely Comcast would match that? I've done that with mobile operators here in the UK, phoning up to switch to PAYG because of a new deal that comes up then the "retentions" agent offering me the same deal on a contract for half the price.
Edit: My point is although it is none of their business why he wants to cancel, it's probably less effort, and helps them out by saying "The customer service is poor" than declining and arguing with the agent who is just trying to do his job (and probably getting paid $10/hour).
Poor customer service? That would be enough for me, in the purely hypothetical scenario where I had a choice other than "no internet", "hook up an antenna to steal internet from the Starbucks down the street", or "Comcast".
Firstly, Comcast has no business why he wants to cancel. He might want to cancel because he landed a tails on a coin flip on a Tuesday, and it shouldn't matter.
Secondly, with such strongly hostile customer service representatives the more you speak that's more ammo you're giving them to argue without cancelling the contract. If you say, 'customer service is poor' there's a high chance that CSR going to pull up records saying that "You called us X times with Y and Z complaints and we have responded to them within 48 hours. That's well within our metrics" or some bs like that.
Talking to hostile CSRs is akin to talking to the cops - don't speak more than you have to.
Last week my wife called to disconnect our service with Comcast after we switched to another provider (Astound).... she and I have already played along and given a myriad of reasons and explanations... which is why I simply stopped answering the rep's repeated questionhttps://soundcloud.com/ryan-block-10/comcastic-service
It doesn't help them out by saying "The customer service is poor." They know their customer service is poor. Comcast is legendary for having poor service. They are one of the most hated companies in the US and consistently have the lowest customer satisfaction ratings among ISPs. They're not blind and deaf, and they're well aware of where they stand. That they haven't improved means they're either unable to, or (IMO more likely) they've determined that good customer service isn't important to their bottom line.
It's a common ruse in Brazil to call cancellation in order to get to the retentions guy and bargain a better deal too.
I can't do this anymore because I have a small, few-channels package and 14-inch analog TV, and cheaper internet packages are bundled with HDTV cable plans. But thanks to anti-bundling laws (and a general sentiment that makes even McDonald's sell their toys independently of lunch boxes), internet-only packages are not unrealistically expensive.
I'm only halfway through but this is driving me crazy. I'm actually feeling extremely furious.
This is why I hate to pick up the phone to talk to companies and instead want automated systems where I can fill out forms and get my job done under 3 minutes, no questions asked.
> I thought the point of "cc" on an email was to prove you've sent something to someone.
It doesn't prove anything, but it does provide notice.
> How can you achieve the same with a letter?
On a letter, you can acheive the same thing that cc: <email address> does on an email by putting cc: <recipient name> on the bottom of the letter, after the signature line, and then making identical copies of the letter and setting to both the addressee and the other recipient named in the cc: notation.
Which is the practice that inspired the use in email.
A few years ago I had some problems with my credit report being corrupted with incorrect data. The official mechanism for correcting errors is to file a dispute for one item, wait for something like 30 days while they review it, then you can file another dispute. In my case there were more than a dozen errors (including bullshit like an alternate SSN, alternate birthday, etc.). I did some digging on the internet and found out an alternate method, which is to print out your credit report, make note of all the disputed items, add a cover letter and any supporting evidence, then send it via certified mail to a secret PO Box you can't find on any of the credit reporting agencies' websites. It worked like a charm.
I assume you're incorrectly referring to the Stolen Valor Act (of 2013, as the earlier one was struck down for violating the First Amendment). That law specifically handles cases in which someone claims they are a recipient of an award related to combat AND does so with the intent to receive money, property or a tangible benefit.
Simply lying about military service to a Comcast Support Technician is not a crime.
It rather depend where you are. [Yes the assumption here is North America / USA, not sure on Comcast's reach?]
In the UK under Seamen’s and Soldiers’ False Characters Act 1906 Section 1, due to a technicality (excision of restricting terms) any [im]personation of HM Forces' seamen or soldiers is illegal.¹
It's been superseded by the Fraud Act 2006 which is more strict in needing a fraud to be committed viz "he false representation is made dishonestly and with the intention of making a gain".
That is the act that I was referring to, and I wasn't aware it was struck down. To the best of my recollection it was specifically targeted at people who lied about service for some personal gain. (However negligible that gain may be.)
Seems I was wrong, though it is kind of hilarious that got 4 downvotes. It was an honest mistake.
Still technically legal, bad faith business dealings? For better or worse (worse imo) this is just how businesses currently operate by default.
It's "just business" when you're perpetrating it, and the sky is falling when it happens to you. For a handful of reasons, the powerful (read: monied) are spared the brunt of the ugly end. Comcast is a regional monopoly that sells service to a lot of poor people. Welcome to the retention department.
Nice idea, so long as you're in the US where you don't really have an 'official' location...
I tried to do this once in Berlin to cancel a gym membership outside of the contractual limits. They required showing an official 'de-registration' from the city of Berlin. I was moving within the city at the time, so instead of telling the city I was moving, I instead told the city I was leaving and then a few weeks later reregistered with my new address.
Unfortunately I wasn't aware that this would reset the amount of uninterrupted time spent in Germany which is needed for getting a permanent residency. D'oh!
It wasn't quite that bad... I could cancel for any reason, but only up to something like a month before the next billing cycle.
I of course realized this around 2 weeks before the next billing cycle, so I would have been forced to pay for the whole year if I didn't show that I was leaving the city.
So I certainly have some blame to my name for not having read the contract more carefully... it just all seemed a bit crazy at the time for a gym membership.
I was with Anytime Fitness until I moved, and I could only get out of my contract by sending them a copy of my new driver's license. I was willing to pay the ETF, but they demanded I show them my license in-person to get out, when I was hundreds of miles away. Finally I cancelled the card they were charging, let them sweat for a bit, then called and said "offer me some other way and you will get your money". They then let me email them.
But yeah, if I didn't have proof that I moved, I would have been stuck in the contract forever.
I had a record showing that I had tried to be reasonable, so if anyone reasonable was willing to talk to me, they could see that. But the reason I didn't just cancel the card and leave it at that is exactly that reason. After a month of them trying to bill me on a cancelled card, I called them and offered to pay the ETF PLUS the late fee if they would just let me email them proof that I had moved. It was still cheaper than flying back just to show them my drivers license.
Accidentally downvoted you, meant to upvote... sorry about that.
Anyhow: I was actually moving, told Comcast so, and I was indeed off the phone in a few minutes. "I wonder what everyone's concern about Comcast is anyway," I wondered. Then, a few days later, the "follow-up" calls began. It got to the point that I had to block the Comcast number just to get some peace.
It often works to ask to be put on their courtesy do not call list.
Systematically, they don't actually want to spend effort on people that don't want to talk to them and the 'courtesy do not call list' line says 'stop calling me' without inviting an argument.
It's probably more effective if you don't mind talking over their initial spiel.
I know I'll never follow up on that so I'm more focused on convincing the operator to give up on me with a minimum amount of grief and fuss (on both sides).
The easiest way to cancel services with shit companies like this is by mail. Spend a few minutes typing a letter, pay the small extra fee for proof of delivery, and you are done. Your post office probably has an automated self-serve kiosk where you can do this in under 5 minutes. Time is money, don't allow a company to spend your time like this.
Sure, you should be able to cancel on the phone with no hassle but that is a pipe dream. This is one instance where the old-school method still works best. I've done this with Verizon & Sprint when I lived in the States and was even able to cancel without penalty (they raised SMS a few cents each time) and not deal with their retentions people.
Now it is my preferred method for anything that takes over 10 minutes on the phone. Even if they are on the line, 10 minutes is a hard cutoff and I hang up, type a short letter, and mail it. It's low-tech but very effective.
"you may terminate this Agreement for any reason at any time by notifying Comcast in one of three ways: [...] (3) call our customer service line during normal business hours"
I'm going to be canceling Comcast around the end of the month. You're telling me I can just send a letter to my local service center and say, "Peace out!"?
That's right. Keep it very short and sweet, and include the information they need to process your request. "Dude, cancel me" probably isn't going to work so think it through and refer to the contract. Everything you need to cancel is in there.
If you have any equipment to return add that too, and tell them you will be returning it to the store (you might even mail it if it's just a card).
A properly written letter is really effective, and makes great evidence in court if things go wrong and the company fails to honor their side of the bargain. Been there, done that, and won.
I have canceled many internet service accounts (while working with customers) from both Comcast and AT&T. While infuriating, this is not representative of the vast majority of my experiences. Reason being, this is not how retention reps are trained. This guy was clearly on a personal mission. I would be surprised if he still works for Comcast.
Here's a really simple guide to getting past customer retention:
1) Be courteous. There is no better way to get mired down in customer retention hell than to give the rep a reason to run you around.
2) Feel free to share your reasons (briefly), but be clear (politely!) that your mind won't be changed. "I need to see for myself" is always a good way to dismiss the rep's reasoning.
3) In the off chance that you get a rep like the one featured here, simply hang up and call back in a few minutes. There's absolutely no reason to invest this much frustration in a company like Comcast.
I've only had one or two cases where I simply hung up on an overzealous rep. In all other cases, the process consisted of answering two or three questions, then I was on to cancellation.
There should be only one question from the rep: Is there anything we can do to change your mind? If the customer responds with anything indicating a willingness to discuss rates or packages, then by all means continue. If the customer says: No, I just want to cancel. Then turn it off.
Assuming you have Comcast equipment if a local service center is accessible it might be worth your time to walk in and drop the equipment off when you cancel. There can be a long tail on these if you have to send back equipment. The folks working the counter at these places also don't have a "retention specialist" they kick you to.
I have to say I canceled Comcast for a few months between houses my experience was pretty painless, I called in and they in-fact even sent pre-paid shipping boxes to return my modem and cable box.
Heck considering the profile this call is getting I'm guessing their "retention specialists" are going to be pretty light touch for a while.
Yep top tip, always say it's because I'm moving country, only way not to get passed to the customer retention department and it's usually processed immediately with no hassle.
It's not something I particularly like to trot out, but if I have to spend more than 5 minutes on the phone for something like this, it's what I tend to trot out, and I don't have to repeat myself (and interrupt them) more than two or three times for them to get the point.
I've had similar experience while dealing with Comcast installation techs.
The installation tech insisted that he needed to use my computer to complete the installation. My computer (running Debian, so using it was out of the question anyway) was sitting right in front of both of us. I told him that he didn't need to use it (which is true) and he insisted that he did. Then I told him that I did not have a computer. We could both see it, but only by insisting that I did not have a computer was I able to get him to complete the installation without using it (he made a short phonecall, and that was it).
"I won't be answering any of your questions, just cancel my service".
"Cancel my service or transfer me to someone who can"
The use of worlds like "Please" and "I'd like to" just tells them that you'll indulge their scripts and tactics. It's not rude to steamroll a system intentionally designed to make it hard to cancel.
I learned that panhandlers, at least in Chicago, interpret polite negative responses as opportunity and will continue to bother me. So, I have taken to saying flatly, "Not happening." It's not so rude or demeaning that I inadvertently pick a fight, but it's blunt enough to let them know that they're just wasting their time with me.
When I'm in a place where these folks will follow you around, I turn as robotic as possible and answer once (or maybe twice to make things perfectly clear) with a simple "no". I try to leave no room for interpreting playfulness or agressiveness.
I just hang up and call again. You'll eventually get someone who doesn't care and will just disconnect you.
I once had a Comcast agent claim that he needed my father's death certificate to cancel my service! (No it was not under his name, it was always under my name.)
I once had a Comcast agent claim that he needed my father's death certificate to cancel my service!
Wtf, really? That is simply unconscionable. Are these even people on the end of the line? What kind of worthless piece of shit asks someone for their father's death certificate to cancel a cable service?
355 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 317 ms ] thread"I'm moving to (insert name of city owned by competitor)"
Unfortunately, that's becoming harder and harder to do...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comcast-Time_Warner_Cable_mer...
I usually use some variation on "I'm moving in with my girlfriend, and she already has <type of service I'm cancelling>"
Of course, usually these numbers are paid, so you pay a small fortune just to get to call someone that will do his job.
Gyms are typically known for making it extremely hard to cancel, like requiring you to snail mail a notice and even then acting as if they never got it.
My wife just recently canceled a gym membership, and actually got no hassle. No written letter needed, nothing. Just a comment about how they were sorry she was leaving and hope to see you again one day. It was perfect customer service.
Are you saying that comcast will negatively affect your credit score because you submit a chargeback to them after they failed to cancel your service?
If you have a contract with a vendor, decide that you don't like the product any more and decide to cancel through a chargeback, that has literally zero influence on the status of the contract with the vendor. You've simply failed to make a payment. Whether the credit card company likes your recording or not is irrelevant.
So those vendors, which in this case is Comcast, can absolutely destroy your credit rating in such a case. I mention this because invariably when payment disputes come up, someone says to just do a chargeback, yet this is no different than simply deciding to stop paying for something.
This recording would make a pretty effective "I dispute the debt" piece of evidence, regardless.
Really!
If Comcast sues you for payment then you go to court (or more likely to an arbiter chosen by Comcast since that's what you agreed to in your contract) where evidence matters.
But instead of that, Comcast simply reports you to the credit bureaus for non-payment. The law gives them immunity for doing so -- even if they submitted intentionally false information for malicious reasons, you can't sue them for libel. And you credit score affects your ability to function in US society: it is used for all granting of credit, for deciding whether to allow you to open a checking account, for deciding whether to hire you at a job -- it is so significant that you are forced to care. You can open a dispute of facts with the credit reporting agencies, but be prepared to spend large amounts of time doing so.
The other alternative is to play their game with their customer service and get them to agree to properly cancel the service.
I believe that is indeed what the parent post meant. If you do a chargeback, that just means you did not pay the Comcast (or whatever) bill. Comcast will likely not treat that any different than if you didn't pay, if they feel the bill is valid; your account will be sent to collections, and also show up negatively on your credit report.
Dealing with small contract issues like that with a large, bureaucratic company can be like cutting your nose off to spite your face; you cause yourself more long-term damage. You may be 100% in the right, just like a pedestrian in a crosswalk; it is still in your benefit to dodge the bus.
IANAL, but in a contract dispute, at least with a small-ish charge, the best course is to pay the bill (under protest/duress; you can indicate such in the comment on the check). Then file in small-claims court. I would reserve chargebacks to companies that have scammed you (not just crappy businesses, like Comcast/etc.), fraud / identify theft, etc.
Of course, ideally you would want to get the issue cleared up before going down that route, as well.
The chargeback is a contractual dispute resolution process. The consumer says they shouldn't have to pay for a valid reason. The merchant gets to provide evidence otherwise. A decision is made and both parties have agreed in advance (via the merchant agreement and cardholder agreements) to be bound by that decision. This is one of the consumer protections that make using plastic safer than using cash/checks.
So you can find stories by the thousands of people who won a chargeback, and then were hounded by collections and ruined credit. Because Visa and Mastercard don't overrule contract law.
Credit cards are safer/more powerful simply because money is influencing, and he who controls the money controls the relationship. They don't override contract law, however.
It's much easier to cancel service or dispute a bill when they don't have the ability to pull money out of your checking account without your explicit monthly approval.
I ended up going back to Comcast a few years ago, when they advertised 25Mbps for the price I was paying for 6Mbps on DSL, so it made sense to go back. Now I wonder, if I were to try to cancel today, would I get the same hassle as this guy? I'm betting so; they are probably trying to retain as many customers as possible leading up to the upcoming merger.
If the official way (according to the contract) to cancel a contract is a phone call, what difference does it make if the remote party accepts this cancellation? Just state that you are cancelling the contract, make sure to get a recording (if legal in your jurisdiction) and chargeback all unauthorized future credit card charges.
So yeah, maybe he's a bit needlessly overdramatic about this, but personally I'm thankful for the entertainment.
Their entire job as retention agents is to waste enough of your time, and try to press enough buttons, that you give up.
The whole "I am waiting for the system to complete the process, so listen to my arguments while we wait" nonsense, for instance. Credit card companies do the same thing for activations, using the "waiting for the system to finish" to pitch insurance and other unwanted products.
This is a problem. This is a major problem. This is why so many services allow you to sign up in seconds online, but require long, drawn out waste-of-time phone calls to cancel. To force you through this gauntlet, making most just forget about it.
Cynically claiming that this guy manufactured this situation betrays logic of this situation. He dealt with what is a profound problem that most customers deal with.
Are you saying that if he had hung up, and called again, he would have faced an equally long phone call?
My point is that he did not have to put up with this. Obviously there are going to be some bad apples amongst the thousands of comcast customer service employees. He could have hung up on this guy, called back, and gotten a much more reasonable employee to cancel his account.
Secondly, realize that this guy's entire job is to do exactly what he did: This is what Comcast trains him to do; It's what they pay him to do; His rewards are based upon him doing exactly what he did. His role is not to fulfill your cancellation request, but to do everything possible to stop you from cancelling.
Bad apple? He is probably the star of Comcast's retention department. Comcast will probably play this tape as training material.
Besides, the ~18 minutes is still faster than the parent poster's claim.
It's hilarious how you say that like it's a good thing. Hint: No it's not.
- the entire hourly-equivalent salary of a new high school teacher (average, US) or
- enough to pay for my entire Starbucks consumption for over a week or
- enough to pay for almost two of my family's "luxuries" (netflix and one other service) or
- enough to pay for the entire quantity of gas I use every month or
- almost certainly double (or more) of the Comcast Rep's wage
This isn't meant to brag but to put in perspective what twenty minutes is worth via a common valuation (money). The lower the socioeconomic class, the more twenty minutes is actually worth, because they tend to have to work more hours to make ends meet, and thus their free time, unit for unit, ought to be valued more highly than mine.
And that is why businesses should push for legislation making it illegal. It is rare for me to sign up for a service using my credit card, and I'm not the only one. The bottom feeders make it hard for legitimate companies to get customers.
Something similar happened to me with AT&T (now Comcast, I believe) in Chicago. I was moving away so I canceled service, returned my equipment in person and even got a receipt! But someone forgot to log something somewhere, so they kept sending me bills. For months, I kept calling and (foolishly) believed them when they said it would be straightened out soon... until they threatened to send my account to collections.
In the end, it took a letter to the office of the CEO with the whole story and a copy of my receipt to fix things (and if it hadn't I'd already started researching my legal options).
Collections tend to be more likely to play hardball, but they often also tend to contain smarter humans. Sometimes this helps.
Unfortunately, billing responded to the collections agency by yanking the debt back from that collections agency and referring it to another, meaning I had to start all over again. I don't know if that's against the rules, but it didn't seem fair and certainly wasn't nice.
When I was on the phone with the collections agent, I was very polite and told her I knew she was just doing her job. I then got her to admit that this sort of thing happens all the time with AT&T, and that a lot of her phone calls go the same way.
Since then I've suspected that AT&T's practices go beyond mere incompetence and into abusive territory.
Big business (and especially the collections agencies they usually send this kind of supposed "debt" to) love to say a lot of things, but that doesn't make it legal.
So they claim some account is "in collections", implying you have some sort of debt to them. If they say that publicly[1] and that hurts some future opportunity due to the "bad reputation", then a libel (or slander, as appropriate) lawsuit should be filed. While each case would be different[2], you create a lot of the mess by acknowledging their incorrect claims.
Business walk away from stuff all the time, and so can you. If any restrictions were desired, they should have been written into a proper contract beforehand.
incidentally; this is also why "identify theft" is a stupid term - nobody stole your identity, which is immutable. What someone did was defraud a bank to get money. You were not a party to that transaction (or crime). The fact that banks wan to be lazy ad not do proper background checks on people they loan money to does not give them the right to recover that money from a 3rd party, not does it put any amount of fault on that 3rd part). Calling such a situation "identify theft" instead of "lazy bank loses money and blame it on an innocent 3rd part" is a modern version of "they were asking for it" style victim blaming.
[1] I include Experian/Equifax/TransUnion/etc in this - despite. Saying something incorrect - with the purpose of advising another business that that you are probably an expensive risk - is the very definition of libel.
[2] As always, check local laws and ask a lawyer
If you're willing to go through it, good for you as it's a good form of protest (they'll get charged a lot for each chargeback). But if it ever gets to the stage where this it is now, it's totally broken.
The continuation of provided service, followed by a bill in the mail.
make sure to get a recording (if legal in your jurisdiction)
And how exactly do you prove that it is a recording of a conversation with Comcast if their lawyers decide to dispute it?
A decade or so ago, I came within days of needing one merely to disconnect a DSL line.
Once the cost of fighting the collections agency and the cost of the hit to your credit record exceed the minimal cost of hiring the lawyer, its a pretty obvious move.
Not kidding around at all, although its probably a better topic for a law blog than HN.
The main problem they're likely to have is authentication. Helping people is fun. Helping people who like having fun by disconnecting other people (-ex's, etc) is a problem and you need to authenticate them cheaply.
Other than that, have fun with it. I got a manipulative rep when I canceled Sirius and told her I already threw away the radio when she tried to extend the contract. She was not prepared for that. :)
I just stopped paying (removed my credit card from the system), and after calling me multiple times about the outstanding charges, they eventually figured out that I wanted to cancel.
They still tried to bill me for the time between when I attempted to cancel and when the service was actually disconnected, even though I explained I was unwilling to pay this amount. Ultimately, they transferred the bill to a debt collection agency, and unfortunately I failed to dispute within 30 days (was traveling), so I ended up having to pay it.
T-mobile found themselves suddenly completely on the defensive in various TV-shows. They apologized profusely. It was very funny, things really got better.
With Comcast you can usually just hang up and call again if you get an employee with an attitude. This method works with tech support too, hang up and try again if you get someone who just wants to keep reseting your router or doesn't have any idea.
I can't believe I got interrogated when I signed up for service. Worst customer service ever.
I'm guessing that this tactic might actually make the nice employees look bad. The employees with an attitude will have better customer retention metrics; then the nice customer service reps risk losing their jobs or also developing an attitude.
That said, I guess if I were recording it to share on the Internet later, I might've been able to control myself slightly more than usual.
Which is, of course, his right. And maybe it would turn out that the rep would refuse to recognize his answer. And there is some social value in there occasionally being a crank who refuses to play by the rules just to expose them for the silliness there is.
But realize he wasn't trying to get through this call easily. He was trying to make a point.
This is a great example for how setting goals can do more harm than good. If you start measuring people, they'll optimize for what you are measuring.
Also, the caller was not a "crank who refuses to play by the rules." There is no rule that says customers have to fill out a survey upon canceling service. It was clear to me that the Comcast agent was also not asking those questions honestly. He was using them as a rhetorical trick to get the customer to eventually say, "Fine, don't cancel my service."
This is obvious: by answering the question. I'll repeat that he was under no obligation to answer that question.
My mother-in-law does the same thing this guy does: stands her ground and refuses to answer any questions. It's completely her right to engage in that manner, but she neither asks for nor gets any sympathy for how long she has to stay on the phone with people.
Maximally demanding all your rights all the time is usually not coincident with smooth interactions with other human beings.
"I've had horrible customer support from a Comcast rep, and I don't want to continue to patronize a company that would hire someone who acts that way."
(The next logical step is to ask for the offending rep's name, to which he could respond "what was your name again?")
What's the retention angle from that point? Is it "I promise if you stay with us, I'll go right to my boss and have him fire me"?
The operator pushes it a lot but consider this: he is probably paid like shit and he probably get commission on how many customers he can retain. Maybe if he loses too many he can even lose his job. Knowing this and knowing that their job is extremely horrible(getting called names all day) what I see here is not the operator's fault at all. I see a person crushed by a job that he might be losing taking the blame for problems that he didn't cause(maybe in this instance but they often do). The only thing I have for someone like this is a kind word instead of rage. If you are unsatisfied at the end of the call, send a complaint letter about the service, do not take it on the operator.
(Obviously there are exceptions where the operators are just assholes)
They know what kind of job it is. They do it anyway.
I don't really care much for the commissions, or the livelihoods, of people who knowingly take jobs that make other people's lives worse. I know in some locales call-centre jobs are the best (in terms of compensation) they can get, and I'm sorry that that's the state of affairs the world is in, but if they're willing to make my life miserable to make theirs a bit better, they can put up with being shouted at from time to time.
Raising his voice and getting audibly angry would have likely shut down her incessant line of questioning pretty quickly.
It doesn't even have to be a genuine anger...I've done this quite a bit. If I am in a hurry and a service rep ever starts to pry questions into the conversation I just make a little huff and puff and they will generally decide to move the conversation along by just doing as I asked in the first place.
You don't have to be abusive to get your point across...just let them know you aren't listening to their bullshit.
Yes, their job is shitty, but when your job is to bully people (by phone or otherwise), don't expect rainbows and unicorns.
Part of accepting capitalism to such an extent as HN is a brutal lack of empathy.
Still, getting a job where you are paid with my money to harass me is not the way to get on my good side. Either way, I never take those calls, and never take anonymous calls either, unless I'm looking for a job.
Beside, that kind of behavior from a company here (in France at least, and probably most of Europe) is probably illegal.
http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Comcast-Retention-Specia...
That said, I've never dealt with anyone quite as tenacious as the guy in that recording.
We signed up during a promotional deal and when the deal ended I got a bill for 2x+ what i normally pay. I called customer service and they explained that the roll-over from the promotional service into the new service was billed at the start of the month and the last bill from the promotion was at the end of the month. The net effect was a double billing.
When we called comcast to disconnect we got the same run around as to why we are disconnecting. It wasn't nearly as bad as this call however.
Honestly, the worst company ever. I will never do business with them again.
Edit: My point is although it is none of their business why he wants to cancel, it's probably less effort, and helps them out by saying "The customer service is poor" than declining and arguing with the agent who is just trying to do his job (and probably getting paid $10/hour).
Secondly, with such strongly hostile customer service representatives the more you speak that's more ammo you're giving them to argue without cancelling the contract. If you say, 'customer service is poor' there's a high chance that CSR going to pull up records saying that "You called us X times with Y and Z complaints and we have responded to them within 48 hours. That's well within our metrics" or some bs like that.
Talking to hostile CSRs is akin to talking to the cops - don't speak more than you have to.
I can't do this anymore because I have a small, few-channels package and 14-inch analog TV, and cheaper internet packages are bundled with HDTV cable plans. But thanks to anti-bundling laws (and a general sentiment that makes even McDonald's sell their toys independently of lunch boxes), internet-only packages are not unrealistically expensive.
This is why I hate to pick up the phone to talk to companies and instead want automated systems where I can fill out forms and get my job done under 3 minutes, no questions asked.
Step two: send the letter via certified mail to the company whose service you're cancelling, cc'd to your state attorney general's office.
Step three: there is no step 3.
How can you achieve the same with a letter?
I can obviously just write the same letter twice and send it to two different places, but neither will know the other was also sent the same thing.
It doesn't prove anything, but it does provide notice.
> How can you achieve the same with a letter?
On a letter, you can acheive the same thing that cc: <email address> does on an email by putting cc: <recipient name> on the bottom of the letter, after the signature line, and then making identical copies of the letter and setting to both the addressee and the other recipient named in the cc: notation.
Which is the practice that inspired the use in email.
They don't transfer you to customer retention and you'll be off the phone in a few minutes.
I assume you're incorrectly referring to the Stolen Valor Act (of 2013, as the earlier one was struck down for violating the First Amendment). That law specifically handles cases in which someone claims they are a recipient of an award related to combat AND does so with the intent to receive money, property or a tangible benefit.
Simply lying about military service to a Comcast Support Technician is not a crime.
In the UK under Seamen’s and Soldiers’ False Characters Act 1906 Section 1, due to a technicality (excision of restricting terms) any [im]personation of HM Forces' seamen or soldiers is illegal.¹
It's been superseded by the Fraud Act 2006 which is more strict in needing a fraud to be committed viz "he false representation is made dishonestly and with the intention of making a gain".
1 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Edw7/6/5#commentary-c578...
2 - http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/docs/lc308_Statute_Law_R... at page 39 (PDF page 43)
Seems I was wrong, though it is kind of hilarious that got 4 downvotes. It was an honest mistake.
This is a privacy matter.
The operator acting is barely legal.
Still technically legal, bad faith business dealings? For better or worse (worse imo) this is just how businesses currently operate by default.
It's "just business" when you're perpetrating it, and the sky is falling when it happens to you. For a handful of reasons, the powerful (read: monied) are spared the brunt of the ugly end. Comcast is a regional monopoly that sells service to a lot of poor people. Welcome to the retention department.
I tried to do this once in Berlin to cancel a gym membership outside of the contractual limits. They required showing an official 'de-registration' from the city of Berlin. I was moving within the city at the time, so instead of telling the city I was moving, I instead told the city I was leaving and then a few weeks later reregistered with my new address.
Unfortunately I wasn't aware that this would reset the amount of uninterrupted time spent in Germany which is needed for getting a permanent residency. D'oh!
I of course realized this around 2 weeks before the next billing cycle, so I would have been forced to pay for the whole year if I didn't show that I was leaving the city.
So I certainly have some blame to my name for not having read the contract more carefully... it just all seemed a bit crazy at the time for a gym membership.
But yeah, if I didn't have proof that I moved, I would have been stuck in the contract forever.
Anyhow: I was actually moving, told Comcast so, and I was indeed off the phone in a few minutes. "I wonder what everyone's concern about Comcast is anyway," I wondered. Then, a few days later, the "follow-up" calls began. It got to the point that I had to block the Comcast number just to get some peace.
Systematically, they don't actually want to spend effort on people that don't want to talk to them and the 'courtesy do not call list' line says 'stop calling me' without inviting an argument.
It's probably more effective if you don't mind talking over their initial spiel.
http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0108-national-do-not-ca...
Sure, you should be able to cancel on the phone with no hassle but that is a pipe dream. This is one instance where the old-school method still works best. I've done this with Verizon & Sprint when I lived in the States and was even able to cancel without penalty (they raised SMS a few cents each time) and not deal with their retentions people.
Now it is my preferred method for anything that takes over 10 minutes on the phone. Even if they are on the line, 10 minutes is a hard cutoff and I hang up, type a short letter, and mail it. It's low-tech but very effective.
And for anyone else with Comcast, here's the fine print that Ryan should have read to save all this aggravation. Scroll down to section 9 b (1): https://www.comcast.com/Corporate/Customers/Policies/Subscri...
"you may terminate this Agreement for any reason at any time by notifying Comcast in one of three ways: [...] (3) call our customer service line during normal business hours"
* Who you are
* Where you are receiving service
* Your account number
* What date this cancellation is effective on
If you have any equipment to return add that too, and tell them you will be returning it to the store (you might even mail it if it's just a card).
A properly written letter is really effective, and makes great evidence in court if things go wrong and the company fails to honor their side of the bargain. Been there, done that, and won.
That would be an interesting write-up to read about.
Here's a really simple guide to getting past customer retention:
1) Be courteous. There is no better way to get mired down in customer retention hell than to give the rep a reason to run you around.
2) Feel free to share your reasons (briefly), but be clear (politely!) that your mind won't be changed. "I need to see for myself" is always a good way to dismiss the rep's reasoning.
3) In the off chance that you get a rep like the one featured here, simply hang up and call back in a few minutes. There's absolutely no reason to invest this much frustration in a company like Comcast.
I've only had one or two cases where I simply hung up on an overzealous rep. In all other cases, the process consisted of answering two or three questions, then I was on to cancellation.
It's not my job to play along with their script and help them raise revenue. It's their job to cancel service, no questions asked.
I have to say I canceled Comcast for a few months between houses my experience was pretty painless, I called in and they in-fact even sent pre-paid shipping boxes to return my modem and cable box.
Heck considering the profile this call is getting I'm guessing their "retention specialists" are going to be pretty light touch for a while.
"I'd like to cancel my service."
"But why w-"
"I'd like to cancel my service."
"Buy we co-"
"I'd like to cancel my service."
It's not something I particularly like to trot out, but if I have to spend more than 5 minutes on the phone for something like this, it's what I tend to trot out, and I don't have to repeat myself (and interrupt them) more than two or three times for them to get the point.
The installation tech insisted that he needed to use my computer to complete the installation. My computer (running Debian, so using it was out of the question anyway) was sitting right in front of both of us. I told him that he didn't need to use it (which is true) and he insisted that he did. Then I told him that I did not have a computer. We could both see it, but only by insisting that I did not have a computer was I able to get him to complete the installation without using it (he made a short phonecall, and that was it).
"Can you cancel my service?"
"I won't be answering any of your questions, just cancel my service".
"Cancel my service or transfer me to someone who can"
The use of worlds like "Please" and "I'd like to" just tells them that you'll indulge their scripts and tactics. It's not rude to steamroll a system intentionally designed to make it hard to cancel.
I've found a hard stare and a subtle "no" gesture with my head generally does the trick with street solicitors.
I once had a Comcast agent claim that he needed my father's death certificate to cancel my service! (No it was not under his name, it was always under my name.)
Wtf, really? That is simply unconscionable. Are these even people on the end of the line? What kind of worthless piece of shit asks someone for their father's death certificate to cancel a cable service?