HN Explorer

Offer HN: Free Use of Agricultural Land 30 miles Northwest of Chicago

354 points by syedkarim ↗ HN
We own 13 acres of ag-zoned land just outside of Chicago. We have access to an adjacent 70 acres. I am offering free use of the land for anyone who has an interesting project that requires land and proximity suburban/urban environment--and wifi network.

The land is located 35-miles from downtown Chicago and 25 miles from O'Hare airport. It's smack-dab in the middle of suburbia and there is a Menards within walking distance. http://goo.gl/6tjC8g

If the idea is interesting enough, I'll even build you a shed or a cabin (out of 2x4s; nothing fancy).

The land will include the following amenities, all of which is available at no cost (for really cool projects).

--well water (within reason) --septic field --electricity (within reason) --wifi --fenced and unfenced acreage

Starting next year, there will be bees, flowers, goats, chickens, dogs, and alpaca on the land. And very likely a mini-donkey, to keep the coyotes at bay.

Feel free to suggest anything you actually want to implement. Or just suggest ideas that others may want to run with. Other than providing power and internet, I don't have the time to help with anything else.

Some ideas my wife and I have come up with:

--real-life Farmville with wifi robots --tiny, automated combines --experimental wind turbine development --cubesat ground stations (not really ag-related, but still cool) --goat-milking bots

This is no strings attached. We just want to encourage really interesting technical-agricultural projects. Let a thousand flowers bloom.

118 comments

[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 158 ms ] thread
te_platt
Very clever nerd sniping. Until I read this I had no idea how badly I wanted to do something with agro-tech. All my ideas so far are just too silly to mention.
ctdonath
I'll mention:

Square-foot garden rental. Mail in the seeds and specify the area needed (in 1ft^2 increments), service plants/waters/weeds/harvests accordingly, providing webcam/etc updates, mailing the produce back.

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makmanalp
Even better, you get an API that gives you a photo of your square, air and soil humidity, temperature, and a call to water the square for x seconds. Planting and harvesting is manual, everything else you automate!
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thebenedict
That sounds probably stupid, and like a tremendous amount of fun.
schoen
Garden-as-a-Service?
syedkarim
This is killer. I would throw in a few bucks for someone to work on this.
randomdata
Isn't that basically the CSA model? Perhaps the interface to the grower has room for improvement?
syedkarim
I thought the CSA model was essentially pre-selling a share of the harvest. Whereas I believe this idea is to offer a plot that the user could control with remote hands? Possibly even a web-controlled arm or something?
calbear81
Do you mind if I run with this idea at a hackathon? It's like your garden in Plants vs. Zombies! I had some tweaks in mind but very similar to your base idea.
syedkarim
Yes! Please run at full steam. Go nuts.
daveloyall
You mean 1m^2 increments, probably. There are various paper and online resources that document the "row distance" for various crops. Those numbers are based not just on both above and below ground width of a given type of plant, but also how 'thirsty' it is. On further thought, maybe it would be legit to make your minimum unit equal to the average row distance of your most common crops.

Also, did you know that all plants are engaged in constant chemical warfare with one another? Meaning, each plant releases toxins that inhibit the growth of competitive species. I recommend a book called Carrots Love Tomatoes. Why do I mention this? Layout matters. You can't grow tomatoes adjacent to brassicas effectively.

There are plant compatibility charts which would allow you to develop a layout algorithm... BUT, there are also age-old predefined garden layout templates which are optimized not just for plant compatibility but also accessibility (you need paths to get in there and water) and beauty.

...And that folks is what happens when a programmer knocks up a gardener. :)

But have you considered renting individual plants or something, instead of squares of land? The predefined garden layouts can be scaled, but I'm not confident that they can be tiled... In this model, no individual would own any specific spot--it'd just be one big garden! s/gardener/modern anarchist/

sweettea
Nah, 1ft^2. See Mel Bartholomew's Square Foot Gardening: http://amzn.com/1579548563
daveloyall
Wow, that guy's pretty much cornered the market on that particular three-word google search!

Do plants grow well like that?

https://www.google.com/search?q=broccoli+row+spacing https://www.google.com/search?q=cukes+row+spacing https://www.google.com/search?q=carrots+row+spacing

When I search the internet for information about agriculture, I usually keep an eye out for results from .edu webservers, rather than yuppies.

Iowa State University has a great Ag program, for example, and they cite their sources and publish their data.

I mean, you can of course rent sqft chunks of land, one unit is as good as another. Just try not to picture a 100x100 grid of squares each with a customer in the center--the plants would not grow for various reasons outlined in this thread. :)

ctdonath
I meant "square foot". It's a gardening thing in the USA. If you want more, rent more; 1ft^2 is the basic unit.

Good point on "chemical warfare" - and this arrangement can solve it. Unless you request a particular arrangement of adjacent square feet, the GaaS (Gardening as a Service) provider can arrange arrangement with other people's plots to improve on inter-species interactions, and do so in ways that individual gardeners can't because they don't have the scale nor variety.

Sure, rent-a-plant would work too. I prefer the "square foot" approach. My idea started when the lead post reminded me of those odd real estate semi-scams that sold "one square inch" of some otherwise desirable area, complete with legal deed; then I realized that "square foot gardening" is a thing, and ran with it, and now hopefully calbear81 will really take it somewhere.

thoughtpalette
Really generous and cool of you guys to do this! That's personally too far out for me, but I could see a bunch of people taking you up on this!

It'd be cool to have a site that lists current projects on the land so we can follow and see progress.

columbo
Great idea, have you informed your local makerspaces? They might be able to set up a competition.

http://pumpingstationone.org/ <-- Here's one, though I've never been there.

zkirill
This is a great offer! If someone is interested in using this land to build a high tech farm to supply the Chicago area then we'd love to work with you on ways we can push the availability, product and price information out to local buyers and distributors in real-time.
randomdata
"tiny, automated combines"

I've seriously wanted to explore this for a long time. When current combine technology can cost well into the half million dollar range, it seems ripe for disruption. Chicago is out of my way (and I already own farmland of my own anyway) – its capital costs that have held me back. But if anyone actually takes on this project, I'll be watching very closely.

makmanalp
One cool related topic is how much agricultural automation gear costs. For a robo project we used a trimble GPS with sub-meter resolution that cost around 2k, but honestly I feel like with a local radio base-station and a gps you could probably come up with something similarly accurate and cheap for way less money! I'm sure when it comes to controlling the combines automatically, it gets even more exorbitant.
randomdata
Definitely. We looked into adding RTK autosteer to our tractors a few years ago. It was about $10,000 to get into a full autosteer system per machine, plus recurring costs for the correction data, which seems to be the preferred way to go. That just to drive straight. The systems that can handle turning on the headlands or synchronize between machines run even higher, at least at the time. We decided it wasn't feasible for our operation and haven't reevaluated.

However, if you can completely replace an operator as a tiny autonomous combine could, costs of that magnitude become negligible.

jqm
This article shows some small scale grain harvesting devices. They also sell small scale grain drills, mini-balers and some cool looking walk behind tractors.

http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/smallscale.htm

But for a very small patch of an acre or less, it seems that a scythe, then hand threshing with a stick and a tarp might be the way to go. That's how they did it for thousands of years. I understand it goes pretty fast if you learn how to use a scythe. The tools would cost around a hundred bucks and you would get a bit of exercise during harvest season at least.

http://www.amazon.com/Seymour-SN-9-Aluminum-Scythe-Snath/dp/...

mparlane
I've always had the idea of growing sugarbeet on a conveyor belt. It would take 100-120 days to get from one end to another. You plant a seed with dirt at the start and a sugarbeet rolls off the end after the grow time. You filter out the sugarbeet from the dirt when it falls off (sieve).

The conveyor would be fully solar powered and it's power requirements would not be very much due to the slow progression.

Once you have the sugarbeet, you turn it in to ethanol, hopefully with another automated process.

Economics of sugarbeet to ethanol: http://www.isosugar.org/Egypt/GL2.2.pdf

Someone
I would guess it is more economical to move just the sugarbeet and the farming machinery, not the sugarbeet and the ground it grows in.

Plant beets on a strip 1/120 of the land each day, and after 120 days, your land will be full, and the first 1/120th part will be ready for harvesting. Harvest them, and throw them on a conveyor belt.

More importantly, each of these approaches assumes constant weather, which I doubt you will have northwest of Chicago. Those sugar beets might grow a bit slower in he months October-March or so. That's one reason farmers plant all their land at around the same time each year.

mparlane
Idea was to minimise the work needed to collect the sugarbeet, I could be overestimating the automated collection of sugarbeet from the ground though :)
crisnoble
Sounds pretty neat. Similar in theory to hydroponic factories where you plant a seed on one end, and let it slowly float down a moat and get harvested at the end of the line.
D_Alex
Cool idea... but doing some back-of-the-envelope calcs on this, I get:

Yield, assuming 3 harvests/year = ~ 24,000 l ethanol per year

Price of ethanol =~ $1/l... if feedstock = 50% of price, then value of beet grown = ~ $12,000/year

Neglecting all running and maintenance costs,to get a 6% return you'd need to cover your hectare with conveyor belt for $200,000... that's $20/m2, inc substructure. Considering carpet costs $40+/m2... I doubt this could be done economically.

Comments?

skj
Carpet may cost $40/m^2 to lay down (actually a bit less than that), but it costs significantly less to maintain.

Yes, there'd be an up-front investment, but you just need to keep your maintenance down.

smeyer
The commenter is already assuming no maintenance costs. The $20/m^2 is the number you'd have to hit to be economically viable (with $0 maintenance) rather than putting the money in the market for a 6% return.
wcunning
This is an awesome idea/project. Sadly, I do not have any project ideas that the brilliant minds at John Deere haven't already come up with because those guys are awesome (Google can't beat their driverless tractors). I would really like to see what comes of this, though. Would you mind requiring documentation, a blog perhaps?
syedkarim
Sure thing. Even if no one runs with their own plans, I'll be documenting the home construction and small farm process.
opendais
If it is already up, link? :)
syedkarim
Not yet, though it should be done in the spring. Our house will basically be a 2000 square foot concrete warehouse. I'll be sure to stop-motion the construction process.
opendais
Interesting choice. :)

Well try to post it on HN when you are done, I'm curious.

toomuchtodo
I live 12 miles away from you. Want help? This is exactly what I've been looking to do!
incomethax
I live not too far away myself. Anyone taking @syedkarim up on his offer, I would love to help out!
syedkarim
I welcome all assistance. Feel free to reach out.
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syedkarim
My contact info: Twitter @syedkarim Gmail: syed.f.karim
taylorwc
> And very likely a mini-donkey, to keep the coyotes at bay.

City-boy here. How do mini-donkeys keep coyotes at bay??

jccooper
They're territorial, mean, and not particularly scared.

Does depend on number of donkeys vs number of coyotes though. They're ornery, not magic.

artie_effim
ok - that last line is my new email sig for the next 6 months. replacing "there's no problem so bad that you can't make it worse"
relaunched
I might borrow it for my signature too ;-)
grimtrigger
This sounds like the perfect place to start building my giant mechanical kill bots
leeoniya
hmmm. we're doing greenhouse climate control, irrigation and nutrient dosing for hydroponics. i'm gonna shoot my buddy an email to see if he's interested.
cyorir
Supercool. I have no doubts you'll find lots of Chicago-area people looking to put that land to use. However, if you are looking for a good base of people to reach out to my suggestion is to tap into Northwestern University. It's a bit hard to reach for most people there, but I'm sure you could find some people who would desire land for some project or another.
avyfain
I go to NU and find this opportunity extremely interesting. I am not involved in any kind of agro-tech, but I will put a word in with people in the university's sustainability committee, who probably know of projects that might find this useful.
maceo
If you haven't already, you should check out The Plant. I took the trip to Chicago all the way from LA just to check out this place. When I went a couple years ago it was in its early stages, but it was still a great experience to tour the facility.

http://www.plantchicago.com/

patcon
that is an amazing project. surprised they have no software partners to help build open platforms that help run the place :)
kefka
Have you thought about contacting opensourceecology.org and offering these guys/gals?
pcv
I worked with villagers in Peace Corps and Navajos in schools. What small farm tools do they need? Lighting at night and cooking during the day w/o firewood?

UAV for plant and animal monitoring. https://code.google.com/p/uavplayground/ http://unfoldingmaps.org/

We are using Arduino, GPS, Raspberry Pi. http://playground.arduino.cc/Tutorials/GPS

Biohacking would reduce animal agriculture. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/real-vegan-cheese

Biochar for farming? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochar

Amaranth and quinoa sprouting. We grow these well in Santa Fe, NM. But sprouting is too hard. How do we create a sprouting machine to produce sprouts without mold and endless sprout rinsing?

How can we use Ecat and Blacklight power systems for decentralized farms? Lighting and cooking? Distillation, food sterlization, fermentation, refrigeration, biochar? http://ecat.org http://www.blacklightpower.com/

kentf
This is a perfect opportunity to crowdfund something really cool.

If you use Crowdtilt, you don't pay any fees since they are a YC company. Just use this promo code: hnfriends

https://www.crowdtilt.com

technotony
Do you want some genetically engineered glowing plants? www.glowingplant.com
HeyLaughingBoy
Even though it's ag-zoned, be sure you can add animals. Crops, sure, but adding animals to a farm surrounded by suburbia when the animals weren't there already may be against that specific zoning.
syedkarim
In this case, we can go willy-nilly animal-crazy. Lake County fully supports the areas agricultural heritage, so as long as they are legitimately farm-related, animals are not a problem.
objectReason
Fully automated aquaponics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquaponics). I've been designing and building aquaponics systems in my kitchen and front yard for the past 3 years. Nothing grows like an well-designed AP system. It's incredible how hands-off and easy they can be once setup. I'd be willing to help design and setup said system.
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criley2
Please give me a link to anything from your communities that can help me get into that! Wikipedia is very good at never letting me find the people Who Do Things.
objectReason
There are lots of smaller communities springing up but Aquaponics is a relatively new technology. There is not a central, well-established community for AP growing. However, here are a few links to some projects:

http://www.growingpower.org/ They have reported some insane yields off very small plots using AP technology. Also, as they grow in the midwest - the climate and conditions should be relevant.

http://practicalaquaponics.com/blog/ Murray has been a go to for my research as he has been using AP in Australia for years and has a solid, proven modular system.

I do my research on various forums, but have learned the most through my own experimentation. Feel free to hit me up with any questions.

ph0rque
Hey objectReason, my side project is AutoMicroFarm (http://automicrofarm.com). I'd love to chat with you about aquaponics. Would you drop me an email (andrew at automicrofarm) or provide a way to contact you?
jitl
Do you have pictures or a website set up by any chance? I'd love to take a look at your tinkerings.
objectReason
No site available yet. I'm working on a github release of the plans, but it still needs work.
moxie
I know a lot is happening with FarmBot right now, and that they've talked about doing larger-area experiments. You might consider getting in touch with them: http://go.farmbot.it/
omegaworks
South East side of Chicago / Northwest Indiana resident, recently MIT graduated software developer wanting to put some of my skills to work on something like this. Microcontroller Project Laboratory at the 'tute left me with a Cypress PSOC and crazy ideas. The extent of my gardening knowledge ends with basil, thyme and peppermint, but I had the freshest teas and tastiest pizzas in my frat. :)

Let's make drones that recognize the heat patterns of weeds and pull them for us, or laser weed spores right out of the sky...

Let's tap into the local food movement. People want to know where their food comes from. Let's make them hyperaware - live video feeds of the way the seed was planted, they watch their food grow before their eyes.

CBanga
A fellow NWI resident, mobile app designer and dev in Valpo. I would love to brainstorm/help. If you're interested, let me know!
polytap
Great idea and gesture to the community.

Does any of your land receive irrigation?

I'd like to send you several surface and subsoil sensors to deploy that will communicate back to me via GPRS. Just a couple of minutes is needed to deploy each sensor.

And it would be very helpful if you could send back a soil sample at my expense.

Does this sound practical?

syedkarim
This is absolutely practical. I'm happy to do this. The land was previously used as a tree farm, so there is no irrigation system. But there is some marshland on the property.

My contact info is in my profile. Very much looking forward to this.

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jqm
I have an acre in South-East New Mexico and am hoping to get the proximate 10 acres within a year or so. If you need another soil sensor deployment I'd also install and send you photos and soil samples.

I'm an agronomist by training if it matters.

It's arid and the soil has a fair amount of gypsum. It is on a hillside around my home and has never been cultivated (except a small patch for my garden). I'll shoot you an email you can respond if interested.

kellyreid
I live in Chicago and grow my own food in my yard. I'm highly interested in this.

How can we talk further?

mempko
I am a software engineer living in fox river valley, south west of the place. I work in the mapping industry. If someone is doing a project that may require mapping, ping me and I may be able to help out.

Gmail: mempko