Ask HN: Good countries for American expats

Not an actual expat, but travel a lot.

Lived in a small beach town in Mexico for a month. There were a lot of expats there, super cheap, safe, friendly town. Everyone there spoke enough English that I could get along easily without any Spanish. Quality of life was fantastic. Only downside was very slow/unstable internet access.

I'd seriously consider South Africa, a place like Durban. Great city, everyone speaks English, low cost of living, lots of culture/resources/fast internet, tons to do. Was just there for two weeks. Super nice people, very health focused society.

You are asking a lot of questions but it would help people to understand what you are looking for (or what you are moving away from).

If you are looking for almost USA that is not USA, then Canada. If you are looking for a good climate outside of USA then Australia. Or France, or Italy, but then you will need to learn the language. If you are looking for low expenses, then India, Thailand, or Vietnam. If you are looking for great social stability then Northern Europe countries, but these are notoriously hard to emigrate to... etc etc

(Creds: moved from Russia to Canada, travel a lot)

I've noticed a lot of Americans moving here to Dublin, Ireland the past few years - most seem to be 30+ though and career focussed. I suspect younger Americans are attracted to destinations like California, China and Continental Europe.

I guess Americans who don't mind the rain and grey skies would find it easy to settle here - English speaking, high quality of life, great education prospects for children. I have to say though tech wages here seem to be about half what they are in CA but even within the US, tech wages are much lower than CA.

The Tropical MBA podcast talks about places like this quite frequently, so it's worth a listen. Here's a list of their top cities, most are international: http://www.tropicalmba.com/2014lifestyeldesigncities/

We have good friends that moved to Costa Rica a decade ago. The climate is nice, the scenery is amazing, the country is a stable democracy with no standing army. Land and housing was very affordable.

I'm building a website that seeks to answer this question and similar questions through user self-reporting of slow travel and expat experiences.

http://www.istorical.com

A post by a Brit who moved to Prague:

http://www.istorical.com/countries/czech-republic/experience...

An American's experiences moving to Germany:

http://www.istorical.com/cities/berlin/experiences/138

A couple of interesting posts about life in Japan:

http://www.istorical.com/countries/japan/experiences/49

http://www.istorical.com/countries/japan/experiences/78

There are only ~150 or so posts so far but I think there's already a lot of interesting insight and stories to read!

Living in another country is way, way different from going on a vacation in another country. You're removed from the tourist infrastructure that caters to foreigners and you've got to deal with all of the country's bureaucratic procedures and regulations (even simple things like renting an apartment vary ridiculously from country to country). The same places that are fascinating and fun for foreigners to visit are often stressful and annoying for foreigners to live in. Not speaking the native language makes this all the more stressful and bringing people with you that speak your language makes it a lot less likely you'll learn the native language well.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but there's a reason packing off to a completely different country and successfully 'going native' is usually done by single people right out of college who haven't yet experienced a lot of success in their own country. Yes, plenty of older, more-established people do migrate for economic or political reasons, but they usually end up living in ethnic and linguistic enclaves.

My advice? Pick another country that uses English as their primary language, so you don't have that stress going for you, and pick one that's economically developed, so you don't have that stress going for you. You'll still have to adapt to the local bureaucracy, but at least you'll have a fighting chance to understand it. Many English-speaking countries use a points-based system for immigration that favors skilled workers, so you'll also have a much better chance of getting permanent residency.

I would say Denmark or Sweden.

Everyone speaks English, 5week vacation, 1 year maternety (often paid), free healthcare, good quality of life, low crime, good summers.

Only cons are gray winthers & high taxes.

Ireland

I'll give you what I know:

I moved to Norway almost a year ago from the midwest US: I absolutely love it here and have no plans on returning to live. I can't give much career advise as I'm not working, but there are tech jobs in oil and naval industries from what I can gather. Being from the US, you will need a job before you move. I didn't have many moving expenses because honestly, I decided it was better to give my stuff away than to ship it plus I moved for marriage, so I had less to consider. Schools are good and higher education is free as well. The process seemed simple to get my residence permit: The most difficult part was waiting. I don't get permanent residency until a minimum of 3 years: until then renewal each year, mostly a process of a form, an interview perhaps, and some waiting. We do rent, as do most people here - I think we are paying around 8,000kr ($1300USD) and that is on the cheap end - though I'm in Trondheim and housing is cheaper outside of the city. Everything is expensive - I gave up trying to convert to USD and just learned the economy like I would a game. Though the actual cost of living is more here, the quality of life I have is greatly improved. I can walk everywhere safely. Public transportation is excellent - not having a vehicle is definitely not all that restrictive. Healthy food is the cheap food and healthcare is universal. I'm not fluent yet. It is important to learn (I start language classes next month) but isn't always required in some industries. Eating out is a rare treat because it is always expensive - but on the other hand, a good latte is cheaper than a bus ride. Yes, I do choose to walk with coffee instead of riding a bus at times. Nature is absolutely free - it is almost too bad I wasn't more of an outdoors person. Some of these I'm sure carry over to other countries: I imagine most people don't have dreams of living in the arctic, which comes with its own advantages/disadvantages depending on viewpoint.

If you are young, embrace the opportunity to learn a second language. Take a course before you leave, study your new language thoroughly, and bask in the joy of being accepted in a rich new culture. The culmination is when you can understand their jokes. The motivation is to bargain successfully in the marketplace (eg. Latin America) and not get taken advantage of.

I lived in Peru/Bolivia in 1968-69, taught high school physics in Spanish. One of the most enriching experiences of my life.

I've worked in the UK and Germany. Both are great for American expats and quality of life is high!

Check out this website (started by some a16z guys): http://teleport.org/

Part of this is your definition of "expat". For me "expat" = person who gets sent by company and set up by that company in a foreign country. Most of those types get a sweet deal. The company pays their rent and usually tries to give them something close to what they'd have in their native country which could easily cost way more than they could afford on their own. Plus, since the company is paying it means an instant 20-30% raise since they no longer have to pay rent.

An example would be someone sent to HK, Tokyo, Singapore, maybe Shanghai. I have less experience with Shanghai but just looking at the services available it looks like there's an "expat" crowd. Simply search for "apartments in ____" If you find several websites advertising expensive apartments for expats then that city is probably a place with lots of them.

Me, I've never been an "expat" by the definition above.

In any case, if you can get a company in your local country to send you you'll often not have much trouble. They'll take care of the visas and immigration issues. You won't be expected to speak the language. You'll likely get paid more than you would if you went on your own which can be a big deal.

You might also consider a country that speaks the same language. Their cultures are still different. England has a very different culture than the USA. So does Singapore. I'm going to guess so do Australia and New Zealand. Might not be as different as China or India but still different.

In case you're unaware, there's also r/IWantOut on Reddit, which is all about this kind of stuff.

I'm 'out' (currently Lisbon, previously both Rio long-term and short-term in Medellin) but since I've always tried to get away from native English speakers, in order to have a more 'authentic' experience, I can't say what's good for Americans. Key to me has been language. Get at least intermediate in the one that's spoken where you're going.

If you can be location-independent, it's quite worthwhile to go spend a month or three in some of your top picks but beware, a short stay can seem like a long vacation (meaning the expat 'honeymoon phase' might make you like some place more than you would if you actually had to live there).

One of my favorite links I've ever seen on the subject is this:

Top 15 Cheap, Safe and Friendly Countries

http://www.kimeshan.com/2013/07/11/cheap-safe-and-friendly-c...

Here are the top 15 cheapest, safest and friendliest countries:

    COUNTRY  /  RATING
    1. Macedonia 	0.99
    2. Georgia 	0.98
    3. United Arab Emirates 	0.82
    4. Morocco 	0.80
    5. Hong Kong 	0.75
    6. Montenegro 	0.71
    7. Malta 	0.68
    8. Taiwan 	0.67
    9. Ethiopia 	0.63
    10. Thailand 	0.62
    11. Estonia 	0.60
    12. Sri Lanka 	0.59
    13. Nepal 	0.55
    14. Bosnia And Herzegovina 	0.55
    15. Portugal 	0.46

(+ gregd, feel free to email me about this. I've been living outside the U.S. for years, and have applied for permament residency in 3 different countries. Happy to share any experiences and advice.)

Living in Peru (or most latin American countries for that matter) is vastly different based on the location and standard of living you are looking for, so it is hard to answer your specific questions.

Living on a "premium" district in Lima (Miraflores, San Isidro) can cost you as much (or more depending on your expectations) as living in the US (Dallas TX for example) but you get similar services, amenities, security etc, as you would there too.

Living on more peripherial area of Lima or out on a further away province can be dramatically cheaper.

I know of expats that earn/spend $10k+ a month in Lima, live on a 300m2 luxury apartment , their kids go to top private schools and drive a luxury vehicle.

I also know expats that live in provinces fairly well for one tenth of that.

Peru at the moment is in a good moment of it history, it is fairly safe, and there are plenty of things to do/learn fairly inexpensively. All in all I consider it a great place and experience for the whole family.

I work remotely (IT), so no issues with work or work permits .

Not that my experience is that relevant, since I've only hopped to a neighboring country (Netherlands -> Germany). But maybe it's useful anyway ;). It's been a fun experience so far, because ~6 months after we moved our daughter was born. My wife is German, but had a preference for staying in the Netherlands.

What has your experience been?

More bureaucracy, more organizational hierarchy, but also a nice environments (close to the woods, mountains, etc.). People are a bit nicer/warmer here, but Dutchmen are more honest/to the point.

What is your particular career?

Academia.

How much is your rent or did you buy?

We rent. Southern German university city. Approximately 900 Euro, 1100 Euro including garage and water.

Where did you move to/from?

Groningen, The Netherlands, though I commuted to Amsterdam for a while.

How are the schools?

Our kid only goes to kindergarten now. They are great. Less commercial than NL, much cheaper, nice personnel. I don't know about schools, but many German Bundesländer have free university education.

Have you become fluent in the native language and was the language barrier difficult to overcome?

I had German in high school, so I can understand the language without too much trouble. I can speak at a basic level. The percentage people knowing English as a second language is far lower than The Netherlands or Scandinavian countries. But since we live in a university city, it's not too bad.

How long have you lived in this country?

1 year, and a couple of months when I was a child.

Are you a permanent resident or do you plan on moving back to the Netherlands?

Not sure, so far I am leaning towards staying permanently.

What's the cost of living compared to where you moved from?

Pretty much the same, though the wages seem to be better in academia.

Has your quality of life improved or not? How and why?

Yes, there are more opportunities, since it's larger country with more cities. Also, it's easier to relax more here, given that nature is nearby.

Watch out for the whole double taxation issue. You will need to pay taxes to the US (there's a certain income threshold if I remember correctly, but you'd likely surpass it). If you wind up taking permanent residency, you may need to renounce your US citizenship to stop having to owe taxes Stateside.

(http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/U.S.-...) -- "Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside."

Not not exactly an Expat, but I spent 6 months living in Rome as a student. This doesn't answer all of your questions but I hope it helps.

Pro's: - Great culture, great food. Groceries fresh and reasonably priced.

- Coming from english, Italian is a relatively easy language to learn and people are happy to speak it with you.

- Pretty good infrastructure. Good train systems to move around the country. Rome has a good subway system.

- Lots of walking/biking in daily life keeps you in shape.

Con's:

- Anything ivolving the government is a beaurcratic nightmare. We applied for student permits in August and didn't get them till after we returned home in January. Never tried it but starting a business is probably a lot of paper work.

- Nothing in the city runs on a schedule Buses, People, any type of meetings. The saying that Mussolini did bad things, but he made the trains run on time definatly makes sense after living there.

- Cost of housing his high, though the outskirts of the city are cheaper.

All in all I loved my time there as an experience, but working there may be a challenge.

You'll find American ex-pats of every stripe living all over the map, often in some of the most random backwater places. Remarkably, their new location seems to perfectly suit their individual personalities. Areas to explore: Are you drawn to a particular culture/language, climate, urban or rural setting?

German expat in the UK reporting in.

> What has your experience been?

Mixed. Do your research first. It was difficult to get a bank account and rent a flat without references or fixed address (I stayed in a hostel the first few weeks).

I once got evicted from a flat (with 10 days notice) because of a legal loophole. The landlord was insolvent, bank repossessed, my tenancy agreement was declared void because landlord hadn't sought permission to let it out from the bank. As a tenant, you have no way of checking this upfront. Generally tenants are treated like shit and you need to be really wary. I was ignorant of any of this until it smacked me in the face - now I'm sufficiently up to date to give tenancy advise to the natives.

Compared to Germany, recycling here is barely known, which took some getting used to. You can't get a proper sausage in this country, but there's new exciting foods to compensate for it, and a wide variety of popular foreign dishes.

Other than that I like it, apart from the worrying rise of xenophobia, anti-EU sentiment and increasing internet censorship and monitoring. There's always Scotland though, after the breakup.

> What is your particular career? > Did you have to already have a job when you moved to that country?

I was offered a job as CTO, which was the opportunity to move I needed. If you do not have an offer letter in your pocket, it will be even more difficult to get a bank account and rent a flat (but search for "HSBC Passport").

> What were your moving expenses?

A flight for me, and a couple hundred euros to transport a few of my most important belongings. Do not bring more than this. Definitely don't bring furniture. Do not bring bed sheets or anything that is sized to fit certain items of furniture, it will not fit.

Then the price of a few weeks of temporary accommodation while I searched for a flat. I went cheap (£40 a night) because I wasn't sure how long it would be for, and ended up in a hostel where the shower didn't work reliably. Found a flat after two weeks.

> How much is your rent or did you buy?

Rent in the UK is obscenely high, and so is buying (especially in and around London), and one of the things I still struggle with is the generally poor quality of available housing (ancient heating, drafty single glazed windows, "period" buildings).

> Have you become fluent in the native language and was the language barrier difficult to overcome?

Yes. I spoke English before, or thought I did, but the language barrier was still immense. English has many variations (I ended up in a meeting with an Irishman and couldn't understand a thing) and there's a lot of slang in use. It took about a year before it got acceptable, and after 5 years I can cope with almost all of it, including Glaswegian and Scouse.

> What was the process like to become a permanent resident?

Depends on where you come from. After a few years of legal residency, you can apply for naturalization and do a test that every person born in the country fails (but you just study for it and then you'll pass). As EU resident, there's no huge advantage in becoming a citizen (well, you get to vote if you like).

> What's the cost of living compared to where you moved from? Has your quality of life improved or not? How and why?

Considerably higher cost of living, all due to the high rent (other factors about the same). I'm not sure about quality of life, but I can tell you it was the most important thing in my life and everyone should live in a different country for some time (actually live there, holidays don't count).

As American, please consider that you will be made fun of by some, you will need to learn how to drive on the wrong side of the road and how to use a stick shift.

In general, be prepared to accept that things aren't like home and miss some food.

Depends on the case:

a) Want to experience life - Find something totally different, leave everything behind. - Go to a place that does not use English. Think awesome countries such as Greece, China, Italy, South America or Japan. - Don't worry too much about answering the questions you posed. Just do a little planning, a little saving, a little networking, and get there.

b) Want to look for work without too much of a change - Go to Ireland, UK or any other language that uses English. - You can go to Canada too. I hear people are way nicer and they don't need to lock their doors! :-)

c) Running from the law - This is trickier. You want to buy a couple of books (use cash). - Cuba or Russia come to mind. - China too.

d) Want to break the law - Never break the law in another country. You will regret it. - Stay home. It's always annoying when people break the law while in a different country and they complain that the process or the rules or the treatment is not "like in America."

Canada and England are easy-mode for an American expat, in my experience. In addition to language, there are plenty of US firms already doing business there.

The easiest way to be an expat, by far, is to work for an American company who then sends you to work overseas. Ideally, an American firm with a large number of overseas US workers and an established program for that -- or a government organization like the State Department, entities like USAID, etc.

It's probably easier (in terms of not needing to make any decisions) to work for a US oil company and live on a compound in Saudi Arabia than it is to find your own way in a more permissive country. But less fun, I'm sure.

Nevada. Pretty cheap. Not crowded.