Ask HN: Should I be a plumber?

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Do the job that gives you most satisfaction.

I struggle myself with why I think I have to be a programmer. More and more I feel like "what am I trying to prove?" when I suffer from the same nagging imposter syndrome and self doubt. If you don't like it as much, don't do it. Go for what makes you happy, relaxed, and fulfilled. Not what you think you should be doing. I'm sure you'll end up with something that takes advantage of your existing skills with software and your aspirations to work more with your hands.

Having just read the story about the dentist who got into the dental software business ... who not turn plumber then write plumbing company management software? :)

Plumbing can be hard work. Being on your back / knees for hours at a time day after will end up getting to you. Also, it sounds like your doing some of the more reasonably easy plumbing. Things are a bit more complex when you have to do things like figure out how to maximize water pressure after N different horrendous bend angles, etc. If you think of it in terms of software engineering, the plumbing you've probably done is probably through intermediate software work. You've set up some CRUD apps at this point (in the plumbing world). There's a reason plumbing is a trade and a craft...it can get very complex and the time they're charging to fix a trivial flush valve on a toilet could just as easily be spent on a commercial plumbing gig with some corporate client who is paying the plumber to set up every toilet in a small hotel (for example).

Plumbers don't typically have multi-month gigs. Their overhead is way larger, which is reflected in their rate.

No, because your passion is not plumbing.

You seem frustrated monetarily, yet seem to enjoy your profession.

Honestly, find a new niche for your services and keep working hard and doing your best in your current field. As long as you are following your dream/passion the end always justifies the means.

Answering this properly would require a nice mix of philosophy, economics, and a discussion of value. Not sure if I can even come up with a tldr (after I thought about it for a bit)

How much you get paid for a job isn't solely determined by how difficult it is. It is determined by supply and demand (and difficulty is one of the ingredients in supply). My impression is that unions and licensing also severely limit the supply of plumbers in any one location, making it a high paying job.

It sounds like you're talking to the wrong "potential" clients. You don't "ask" for your hourly rate, you tell them. I've found the best way to get new clients is through networking and referrals. It requires the ability to sell yourself but if you lack that skill it's something you can learn.

I recommend Brennan Dunn's book Double Your Freelance Rate. It's not as much about your development skills (but you should have those down too) as your ability to manage the project, meet expectations, and relate to the client.

With dev vs plumber, do whichever you most enjoy.

Plumbers on craigslist are, for the most part, doing lots of little 1-2 hour jobs. That means that there is likely lots of potential empty space in their calendar. They're probably lucky if they pull 20 jobs a week, so the rate has to go up to make a living.

IT work like you're talking about is probably going to be minimum of two weeks at 40-50 hours a week, so you probably have to pull 2-3 jobs a month. So the rate you have to charge to make a living, and the expectations of people hiring goes down as well.

Its the same effect as why I am paid $35/hr for an IT job (plus benefits, so lets say $45/hr) for a regular job, but wen we bring people in for contract work, we never pay less than $125/hr.

Most people can tell the difference between a leaky pipe and one that is properly plumbed. However, most people cannot tell the difference between well-designed software and shit.

Also, they can take their time choosing a software architect. But if they take their time choosing a plumber, their house fills with shit.

I was talking to my dad about how I repaired a few of my toilets and that I find it hard to believe plumbers charge that much. He then enlightened me to the fact that most calls plumbers get are of the 'messy' kind... Something to think about.

First, I don't know if this is really HN material, but that being said, plumbers get paid what they do because they deal with ridiculously nasty stuff, and they have to be on call 24/7 (or go out of business). They also need decent people skills. And insurance ($$$).

And they need to get really dirty sometimes, and the people who live with them have to be OK with that (a shower will only get you so far; there are mental barriers to having sex with someone who just had their arm elbow deep in a nice blend of rancid oil, mold, and shit).

If all that is OK with you, go for it.

Go for it. Be a plumber for a while but leave some time to keep your software skills sharp / take the "few clients" that pay >$100.

Report back in a few months!

Plumbing makes good money mostly because people don't want to deal with the sewage side of things and because it tends to ruin your body. Clean work (water lines and such) is easy enough and easy to check, especially with the new generation of water lines. Gas lines come with a lot more responsibilities (and in many places certification requirements), sewage is just simply dirty work. It's also very hard work, crawlspaces are not named aptly, you can't really crawl there. And after a day in a crawlsuit you'll just love sitting behind your desk. There is no such thing as easier money than IT money. Figure a decade or so as a plumber will teach you more about appreciating the ability to do IT work than anything else will ever do. Maybe a few months of doing it every day will suffice.

Also, get professional liability insurance and don't touch any gas lines until you (a) know what you're doing and (b) have the required papers (if that's applicable where you live).

That's not stuff to mess around with if you are not 100% sure how to do it right. (you'll need pressure test gear and such to do this properly)

im a plumber, not working right now due to a fami.ly illness but, i usually end my day by cleaning all the shit i had to roll around in all day, litterally feces, human excrement . im nothing but a turd herder . when i look at it that way with you in your nice clean office and my work is either on the roof of your building or its underneath or outside in areas you probably would not want to spend 8-10 hrs a day, i think i want to charge even more(i should have been an office worker)

Thought 1: I love hearing that good plumbers are getting paid well. There is such a need for reliable, professional just-solve-my-problem-with-service tradesmen in America. In a just economy, the makers and doers (like plumbers) are well paid and BS jobs (http://strikemag.org/bullshit-jobs/) are hard to find.

Thought 2: You should start taking plumbing jobs, and after 6 months do a big writeup / post that tells the story ("How I raised my rates by leaving software development for plumbing"). I think a lot of people love to read about it. And possibly it could lead to more lucrative software work if that's what you are really looking for.

I worked as an assistant plumber one summer during college. I needed a job and my friend knew a guy.

It sucked. It was unexpectedly back-breaking work. (Granted this was for mostly new construction and not just fixing problems.) It was hot, and often smelled like urine since roofers would piss in the sump hole of unfinished units. The guy I worked for seemed to hate life and looked like a catcher's mitt from being out in the sun so much.

Though I enjoyed the physical challenge, that summer I really learned the value of getting an education. That said, if you hate IT, I'd suggest trying a few different things before jumping headlong into a craft you're not entirely sure about.

EDIT: here I am not discussing extreme cases, I am talking about day-to-day help without call at 3am and digging into sewer full body.

You have to factor in how much time you actually work in a day.

Unless you work in a big construction project such that you arrive 9:00 in the morning and leave at 18:00, you will probably need to spend a significant amount of time travelling from one client's house to another. And you cannot charge your clients for that time.

And then there is the question of whether you will even be fully booked all the time.

I dunno. A plumber's overhead includes, tools, supplies, and what can be harder labor than the non-trivial work you've accomplished.

Until you are crawling in nasty crawl spaces replacing 4 inch drain lines or doing the more challenging work of replumbing in 100 year old walls with demanding clients warning you to not ruin their plaster and hexie tiles... I wouldn't discount the challenge, risks, and physical difficulty that plumbers face. They have a standard rate which is higher margin for putting a new wax seal in your toilet bowl. but digging long trenches to fix busted main drain lines to the street is far worse than grabbing a coffee on the way to the Herman Miller Aeron.

Depending on where you are, there's also the apprenticeship/licensing process and dealing with the range of niche plumbing areas. There are plenty of basic plumbers, so high competition (you don't just get 40hr/wk starting up). If you get into commercial, then you deal with fairly complex issues and entrenched rackets for middle management to ensure that they get paid more than you.

Do you want to be hands on the pipes or a supervisor? Hands on pipes? You better be tough, never get sick, and ready to deal with a lot of shit - literally. You better work.

I understand where you are coming from. But keep in mind that there are many factors to consider. Getting a van and buying supplies. Driving time. Having consistent business to bill 40 hours per week etc.

I would be very surprised if your overall net income or free-time was higher being a plumber.

Part of the problem with billing as a software engineer is that our work is easily offshored. You can't hire an offshore plumber for $5/hr and if you could, I'm sure plumbers would get a lot more people upset at them charging $100/hr.

Also, I don't think it's fair to plumbers, mechanics, electricians, etc. to say their jobs are a lot easier than programmers. It all depends on the project. Setting up a Wordpress site is probably comparable to installing a new exhaust. And the industrial electrician rewiring a factory is probably comparable to the software engineer setting up a new SaaS site.