It seems awfully true to me. Of course, just because you can't talk some one out of it doesn't mean they are indeed writers. You kinda need to be able to spell.
How different is this from what PG says in "A Student's Guide to Startups"?
"If it can work to start a startup during college, why do we tell people not to? ...[the] answer works out to be the right advice for everyone. The ones who are uncertain believe it and give up, and the ones who are sufficiently determined think "screw that, I'll succeed anyway."
If you pass it off as stupid romanticism, I can assure you that you've never met a creative writer worth his salt. Perhaps it's different in realms of nonfiction, but I won't pretend that because I know nothing of nonfiction writers' passions.
When you're dealing with creative writers, the ones that matter, you're dealing with a pervasive insanity and arrogance that can't be combated. It's not just creative writing, it's all the actively creative arts. I've met visual artists directors and composers who feel the same. You get it from actors and musicians too, but I've always felt their attitudes are more frequently diluted. You can be a good performer or a good actor without the vivid intensity that's almost required for the other fields, where you need to begin with the recklessness of believing you've got an idea worth conveying.
I happen to be somebody with this perversion, so let me try and take it down from this lofty concept of romanticism and make it an idea that logic can comprehend. It doesn't start with a desire to create, though that desire's definitely required at some point. No: What it takes is a critical mindset, the belief that some things are objectively better than other things and that it's valuable to know which is which. That innate curiosity leads to a frustration very quickly, and here's why: When I approach books, music, video games, and to some degree films, I have an almost apocalyptic approach to how I'll observe things. A book needs to justify my reading it in the first sentence, or I'll put it down. A movie has a minute at most. Within that short frame, I'm looking for a multitude of things: Concept, style, approach, tautness. I see a whole slew of things that you will ignore or not care about.
When I talk to people, I find it impossible to talk about these things, which are my passions. Want to talk video games? I think Fallout 3, CoD 4, Halo, are shit, I think Half Life 2 was mediocre, and the game I've been jamming to is a small 15-minute piece called Blueberry Garden about a man with a beak that's stuck in an island that's slowly filling up with water. So despite liking games, the only game where I remotely fit in with other gamers is Beatles Rock Band, and that doesn't have nearly enough depth to make for conversation. If we're talking music, my mind's hovering over a plethora of really weird genres and my approach to each of them is different from the approach that a fan of that genre would take. And forget talking literature. It doesn't happen.
These things are my life. When I wake up in the morning, that's what my love centers around. As a result, I can't make small talk with most people. I can't talk sports or current events without alienating people. (You know how you'd react if a guy started talking about the playwright Beckett to you in random conversation? Your reaction to that is the reaction I have when people mention baseball, unless it's the Yankees, in which case I have vague feelings of pride.) They, in turn, can't talk to me about what I'm capable of talking about. So frustration builds up, which is released in more and more passionate forays into what I like and into surrounding fields.
It's also important to note that I don't look at these things as an enthusiast. My tastes aren't the same as a music enthustiast's, or a literature enthustiast's. I go into art looking for very specific things. I know what I like, and I plunge into things looking. So even in the very small subset of people who approach the world like I do, there's not this constant feeling of fraternity like there is among football fans, or actors, or anime nerds. We meet each other at angles, and while we respect each other, it's always at a distance. The guy who got me into films saw Tropical Thunder with me and a slew of friends. He's a huge film buff. He loved the movie. I couldn't stand it. Meanwhile, he dislikes some of my favorite writers, and I find his favorite writers to be fairly bland. Each of us comes from a different root, and so while we can collaborate on things (...
Kind seems a little bit douche-baggy to me. People ask for favors all the time. Hell if everyone acted like this, what would be the point to networking?
If I was in his shoes, I'd definitely take the time to read a few on occasion.
I think the point is that if you come looking for a pat on the head from a person who has actually put in a huge amount of time to gain their experience, you're setting yourself up for failure.
The article is a lot more about how it sucks that he's in a spot where he has to look like a dick, no matter what he does.
I'd never ask, but if I ever found myself leaning on someone's good graces and got told no, I would be thankful. I'd rather know I was out of bounds!
I think there's a parallel here to something most of us have found in our own lives- When people don't value the work you do, they don't accept it as an imposition to ask you to do it for them.
One place that many people have found this is in investing- "Would you please crit my deck?"
If you're a good friend, of course, I want to do everything I can. I want to see your company take off, and I'm happy to do you this favor. If you're a girlfriend of my cousin who I see once every few years, and you have "The next big thing", I'm put in a spot where if I don't help you, I look like a jerk. That's not a fair position to put someone in.
This is also common in IT work- "Can you take a look at my computer for a few minutes? I have this problem." or even "Can you come to my house to take a look at something after hours, I'll be happy to pay you.."
In a situation like that, I want all the best for people, and I want to help them as much as I can, but the create a situation where you either have to help, or risk coming across as a dick.
The offer to pay you just makes it more hurtful- It's well intentioned, but it implies that the transaction is about money.. If I'm helping you, it's because I'm want to do a kind thing for you, a favor because I respect you.
I'm happy to do favors for my friends, but it can cause difficulty when people want to reduce it to something impersonal.
Many articles on HN have also remarked on the "I have the idea, you bring the implementation, we'll split the profit" element that Josh mentions. It comes from the same basic problem- If people don't value what you do, in this case, the implementation and actual coding of a site, they're going to offer you what you'd consider an insulting deal.
Why link to this and not to the original article in the Village Voice??? Sorry but this is straight up copyright infringement. That woman just copied the entire story word for word from the village voice and put it on her website.
I as pro fair use as anybody on here but there is absolutely no argument here for fair use. This is pure copying. And then we wonder why newspapers fail and nobody can make any money writing.
Please link directly to the original site. Let Nikki Finke of deadline.com write her own stories.
I can't help but draw parallels in my bind between this and being the "guy who can fix your computer." I don't want to, and I don't know why you think I want to do it for free.
16 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 31.7 ms ] threadThis is the kind of stupid romanticism that pisses me off coming from writers.
"If it can work to start a startup during college, why do we tell people not to? ...[the] answer works out to be the right advice for everyone. The ones who are uncertain believe it and give up, and the ones who are sufficiently determined think "screw that, I'll succeed anyway."
People love to make their work seem larger than life. Nothing wrong with it :)
When you're dealing with creative writers, the ones that matter, you're dealing with a pervasive insanity and arrogance that can't be combated. It's not just creative writing, it's all the actively creative arts. I've met visual artists directors and composers who feel the same. You get it from actors and musicians too, but I've always felt their attitudes are more frequently diluted. You can be a good performer or a good actor without the vivid intensity that's almost required for the other fields, where you need to begin with the recklessness of believing you've got an idea worth conveying.
I happen to be somebody with this perversion, so let me try and take it down from this lofty concept of romanticism and make it an idea that logic can comprehend. It doesn't start with a desire to create, though that desire's definitely required at some point. No: What it takes is a critical mindset, the belief that some things are objectively better than other things and that it's valuable to know which is which. That innate curiosity leads to a frustration very quickly, and here's why: When I approach books, music, video games, and to some degree films, I have an almost apocalyptic approach to how I'll observe things. A book needs to justify my reading it in the first sentence, or I'll put it down. A movie has a minute at most. Within that short frame, I'm looking for a multitude of things: Concept, style, approach, tautness. I see a whole slew of things that you will ignore or not care about.
When I talk to people, I find it impossible to talk about these things, which are my passions. Want to talk video games? I think Fallout 3, CoD 4, Halo, are shit, I think Half Life 2 was mediocre, and the game I've been jamming to is a small 15-minute piece called Blueberry Garden about a man with a beak that's stuck in an island that's slowly filling up with water. So despite liking games, the only game where I remotely fit in with other gamers is Beatles Rock Band, and that doesn't have nearly enough depth to make for conversation. If we're talking music, my mind's hovering over a plethora of really weird genres and my approach to each of them is different from the approach that a fan of that genre would take. And forget talking literature. It doesn't happen.
These things are my life. When I wake up in the morning, that's what my love centers around. As a result, I can't make small talk with most people. I can't talk sports or current events without alienating people. (You know how you'd react if a guy started talking about the playwright Beckett to you in random conversation? Your reaction to that is the reaction I have when people mention baseball, unless it's the Yankees, in which case I have vague feelings of pride.) They, in turn, can't talk to me about what I'm capable of talking about. So frustration builds up, which is released in more and more passionate forays into what I like and into surrounding fields.
It's also important to note that I don't look at these things as an enthusiast. My tastes aren't the same as a music enthustiast's, or a literature enthustiast's. I go into art looking for very specific things. I know what I like, and I plunge into things looking. So even in the very small subset of people who approach the world like I do, there's not this constant feeling of fraternity like there is among football fans, or actors, or anime nerds. We meet each other at angles, and while we respect each other, it's always at a distance. The guy who got me into films saw Tropical Thunder with me and a slew of friends. He's a huge film buff. He loved the movie. I couldn't stand it. Meanwhile, he dislikes some of my favorite writers, and I find his favorite writers to be fairly bland. Each of us comes from a different root, and so while we can collaborate on things (...
If I was in his shoes, I'd definitely take the time to read a few on occasion.
The article is a lot more about how it sucks that he's in a spot where he has to look like a dick, no matter what he does.
I'd never ask, but if I ever found myself leaning on someone's good graces and got told no, I would be thankful. I'd rather know I was out of bounds!
Then maybe he should phrase it in a less personal way, like "I don't read scripts".
One place that many people have found this is in investing- "Would you please crit my deck?" If you're a good friend, of course, I want to do everything I can. I want to see your company take off, and I'm happy to do you this favor. If you're a girlfriend of my cousin who I see once every few years, and you have "The next big thing", I'm put in a spot where if I don't help you, I look like a jerk. That's not a fair position to put someone in.
This is also common in IT work- "Can you take a look at my computer for a few minutes? I have this problem." or even "Can you come to my house to take a look at something after hours, I'll be happy to pay you.."
In a situation like that, I want all the best for people, and I want to help them as much as I can, but the create a situation where you either have to help, or risk coming across as a dick.
The offer to pay you just makes it more hurtful- It's well intentioned, but it implies that the transaction is about money.. If I'm helping you, it's because I'm want to do a kind thing for you, a favor because I respect you. I'm happy to do favors for my friends, but it can cause difficulty when people want to reduce it to something impersonal.
Many articles on HN have also remarked on the "I have the idea, you bring the implementation, we'll split the profit" element that Josh mentions. It comes from the same basic problem- If people don't value what you do, in this case, the implementation and actual coding of a site, they're going to offer you what you'd consider an insulting deal.
I as pro fair use as anybody on here but there is absolutely no argument here for fair use. This is pure copying. And then we wonder why newspapers fail and nobody can make any money writing.
Please link directly to the original site. Let Nikki Finke of deadline.com write her own stories.
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/09/...