As a replacement for a "main" desktop keyboard, it looks a bit on the too-optimized-for-mobility side of things with chiclet-style small keys and so on.
I bet it will appear in many people's living rooms though, since seems very well designed (I love the device-selection knob!) for in-couch computing environments to control pads, phones, consoles or perhaps set-top boxes.
"Wow! That's actually rather innovative!"
Am I missing something here? To me it's just a bluetooth keyboard, I have one already. People are going gaga over the rotary switch, which is a nice touch but it's not that much quicker over pairing.
I think it's because you have misunderstood the convenience of having three separate bluetooth profiles that can be switched with a simple toggle i.e. I bet I can switch from device A to device B faster than you can repair.
I don't doubt that the switching is quicker, but it's not that much quicker, and considering the frequency that the switch is needed whilst it's a nice feature it's not much of an advantage. How often are you going to be typing on a tablet and a PC at roughly the same time? Perhaps it's for people to get around the Internet firewalls in their workplace, but if the workplace rules are super draconian I doubt you'll be allowed your own gear anyway.
I am glad that Logitech are thinking of new features to add to their devices, but I resent such small improvements being seen as innovative and worthy of the HN front page. Is that really what innovation has come to, a bluetooth toggle switch? Are we really prepared to set the bar that low?
> How often are you going to be typing on a tablet and a PC at roughly the same time?
Very frequently.
A lot of my social communication happens through my phone, SMS and a plethora of mobile only communication platforms means that I am very frequently switching between my laptop and phone all day long.
> I don't doubt that the switching is quicker, but it's not that much quicker
Turning a knob is much faster than going into the settings menu on a phone (or on a computer!) and re-pairing. Repairing on a laptop can easily take 10+ seconds end to end from opening up the proper setting screen to BT scanning to actually finishing the pairing process.
Compare that to less than a second for turning a knob.
And again, this is something that I might be doing multiple times per minute.
When dual booting you usually use the same bluetooth receiver, with the same MAC address. For me any bluetooth device work out of the box when switching OS once they're paired on both.
How did you get this to work?
I did a quick search on the topic and the best resource I could find was this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1479056
I will try it out when I get home.
Nice! Seems like this should come standard with all wireless peripherals.
I wonder if it maintains a connection with all paired devices or if there is a delay when you switch between them. I find that some of my devices take a while to connect/pair when I turn them on.
As a developer, this setup just brings all the distractions right in front of me :) What's going on my phone is not that important during the day, it can most probably wait an hour or so until I check it. A tablet is a pure entertainment device for me, it belongs to couch, toilet or bed, not to my desktop (otherwise that FTL icon will bug me all day).
On the other hand, this might be a good gadget for, say, sales people using tablets on the go and sync at the office. I'm most probably out of target audience for this device.
well, im a developer and can see how I'd use this. It'll actually save a lil time when I'm coding and my gf's IMing me and I cant tell her to go away :D. She wouldn't even know I'm doing something else with the fast replies.
Did you know there are IM clients for the desktop? Also, there are girlfriends who respect the space for concentration and work, but I understand that switching girlfriend is not as easy as downloading adium…
Yes, I tried getting pigdin for whatsapp client on linux to work, but for some reason it doesn't work anymore because the OTP hack thing isnt working. :-/ I'll have another go at it maybe .. Windows and Mac there are plenty.. And its also about the fact that switching between another handheld device back and forth is a pain. I don't want to let go off my keyboard.
IM is way worse than 10 years ago. Everybody is on proprietary, locked down systems - Skype, Facebook, WhatsApp and whatnot. Adium was great back in the day but now it's incompatible with most of the chats I need to be in.
I don't know how it's over on the iOS devices, but with my Macbook/android setup I use mysms for texts, WiFi keyboard for long passwords and couple.me for texting with my girlfriend. Back when msn live still was a thing I used Adium but I can't bear to have skype open all the time since it's impossible to make the window smaller, at least now I can use Fluidapp and use couple.me as a sort-of native app and resize it to my liking. And my girlfriend likes couple.me since it has all these neat little things such as thumbkiss, stickers, easy photo sharing... etc.
A long time i've been thinking about getting an external keyboard for my phone since I don't really like a touchscreen when it comes to typing. But this keyboard over a mechanical keyboard isn't really an upgrade if you ask me. Better get a good coding keyboard! And if you really are thinking about self-improvement when it comes to coding and working behind your pc, I'd always suggest Steve Losh his article: http://stevelosh.com/blog/2012/10/a-modern-space-cadet/
I keep it in my pocket. Goes a few months on a single charge. It has made my phones entirely more useful to me. That said, a rotary switch would be pretty nice on this thing...
They are correct for me. I stopped using my cheap bluetooth keyboard because Fn is in the corner and I can't remap it. There's no "standard" that dictates where Fn is, and I prefer Ctrl to be always in the same place.
I hate having the FN key in the bottom left corner. Hate hate hate. I remap it back to CTRL. I instinctually reach for the last key when aiming for control, and it not being there really throws off my typing, and really really throws off my gaming.
What I find strange is that touch typing with the remapped "CTRL in the corner" works great, but when I look at the keyboard and try the same combination (usually for strange combinations), I press the "wrong" (Fn) key.
Welcome to the world of this particular dvorak user. If I don't look at the keyboard, I get dvorak; if I look at the keyboard, I get qwerty. Doesn't seem to matter what's printed on the keys.
Logitech has other multi bluetooth keyboards. Ever since I broke my apple one I changed over to this one (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/illuminated-keyboard-f...) Logitech Model #K811. To change device, I hit fn + f1,f2,f3 and it takes about 5-10 seconds to pair to the other device. I believe I have to hit fn since I changed it to use the standard F keys by default.
This looks good and would definitely make typing long email responses more efficient. But other than that, something I don't do very often on my mobile devices, I don't really see the need. If I was to install a full Linux distro on my Nexus 10 and attempt to use it for development, I'd definitely want to use a 'proper' keyboard. Perhaps something like the Enebrick[0] would be a better fit for me.
I can totally see how this could appeal to people who don't need/want a separate notebook machine, keyboard etc and can get by with just a tablet.
I'm a longtime Logitech peripheral user and it's fairly disappointing that they always have some shortcomings that keeps me from loving their products. For instance, I write this article on a K760. It's similar to the Apple wireless keyboard but it's solar-powered and has multi-device capabilities. Unfortunately, its build quality is mediocre. I'd rather pay 20-30 bucks more and have a keyboard that feels better. Also, they removed the previous/next track buttons from the top row for no specific reason.
With this keyboard, the build quality seems even cheaper. They missed the chance to go solar (though that's debatable) and the fn key is in a different position than my current Logitech keyboards (they don't seem to have a guideline for this).
Very much agree on build quality. I mostly use their mouses and their rubber side always wears out after a couple of months and if I'm lucky with that, I get the common double clicking problem with left click. Thankfully their customer support is amazing and they send replacements without too much hassle. (They even sent me a new mouse once even though it was out of warranty.)
I believe that's fixable, but I don't know how hard the fix is. I wouldn't advise you to try to fix it on your own unless you know what you're doing, or you've already contacted their customer support. Don't hesitate to contact their customer support even if your mouse is no longer under warranty.
I've just been unlucky, I guess. The longest Logitech mouse that lasted me was Logitech MX500 (around 3 years), which is funny because I also had top of the line Logitech mouses (MX Revolution, Mouse MX etc.). They were usually the least durable ones.
Also, once I broke my mouse, gave them a call and said "We are sorry that mouse is not in production anymore... So I will send you the newest version for free (80 euro price tag)."
I've had quality issues with some of their previous keyboard mouse combos, particularly bluetooth mice and perishing rubber.
However currently I use a M325 wireless mouse and its very tough. Carry it in my dusty laptop bag, dropped it a few times - no problems at all. No issues with rubber degradation. Highly recommended and works with unifying receivers.
It made me sad to see that too. I'm just hoping it will work like any other bluetooth keyboard for linux because there doesn't seem to be any reason it shouldn't.
The similar K810 works brilliantly in Linux. Mario Scholz has written a small tool to switch between media and function keys[1], I wouldn't be surprised if it works for K840 too.
Only available for pre-order and only shipping to the US it seems. They got me interested enough to order one, but..
By the time it arrives in shops that deliver to DE every single supplier will certainly make sure to offer a localized qwertz layout only. Shopping keyboards is hard here.
If you go to the bottom of the page and select "Change location", you might find that it's available in your country. I can pre-order for the UK (however unfortunately it's £49.99, a fair bit pricier than $49.99).
I've also just found that Currys (our last major high street electrical/electronics retailer that isn't part of a department store and is ubiquitous in most cities) has it available for next day delivery - http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/accessori... - only the white version, sadly, and it's also £49.99.
Edit: Also, when pre-ordering on the Logitech UK website, it asks me to select my layout and color.UK layout is available (thankfully - a lot of Logitech portable Bluetooth keyboards available on Amazon are US layout only).
For most users the changes aren't too troublesome (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_American_keyboards) but I'm so used to coding on on the UK one I find it difficult to switch. The \, #, " and £ are the ones that cause my most difficulty. And to me, the little US enter key just strange (it's double-height on UK keyboards).
Yeah, I'm both a Linux user/enthusiast (I need `~\|# in the Right™ places) and a developer (Switched from DE to US mostly for []{};: etc - the UK difference would be smaller here: A moved \ and @" would be most annoying).
The tiny enter key is actually a requirement for me (to have \| in the right place). Hrm. So maybe I'll shoot one of these keyboards with the US layout on eBay in the future or something.
Learn to touchtype, never worry about what's printed on the keys ever again :)
Seriously though, if you work with computers it's definitely worth your while to take a few weeks to learn how to touchtype properly in the layout of your choice.
I can touch type (although I've to admit that I'm not using the 'right' system. It works, both for text and code snippets and is quite fast, but .. well.. not the typical home row thing).
That doesn't help me here: The keys are physically in different places on these layouts. Look at a US keyboard and compare it with UK (or DE). Enter key, backslash, left shift key: Even if you remove the labels or just ignore them, keys are 'missing'.
I don't get why this is so newsworthy and "innovative". Matias makes a good line of keyboards[0] (even a mechanical one!) based on the same concept, just with 1 wireless and 1 wired connection. Wired is a lot less of a hassle for me anyway, and you don't even have to change the batteries.
That's the innovation part. 1 wireless + 1 wired doesn't help you much if you want to use it with multiple mobile devices (tablet + phone, for example) besides laptops.
I expect the keyboards price is high and its build quality low so it will hopefully break within 2 years. Mechanical switches and durability will very unlikely fit in their business model for this product. The target is $$$ and not a great and lasting product for the consumer (as usual...).
Can someone offer a couple of real-world use cases for the masses?
I have all the Apple devices I need (MBA, iPhone, iPad[*
1], iMac) synced through iCloud. Why would I wanna switch between them, to add a notification or send an iMessage?!
[1] That's kind false. I don't need an iPad, it's just a perk :-P
I suppose not everyone has devices across an uniform platform.
I have a Windows laptop, an Android phone and an iPad.
And I hate having to switch between devices to type (say Whatsapping on the phone and coding on the Laptop)
As a layman I really like the premise of this Keyboard.
I've been using the K810 [1] for some time for all my computers. I find it absolutely brilliant to type on (being mostly in vim, the awkward home/end, page up/down, arrows etc don't matter very much), and it also has the ability to switch between 3 paired bluetooth devices.
There is also the Lenovo Thinkpad Compact Bluetooth [2], which I haven't tried, but allegedly "features a simplified pairing with the system through Near Field Communication (NFC) tag. Simply tap and pair with an NFC-enabled system." It also has a TrackPoint nipple.
Of course, neither of these have the slot for phones/tablets.
The K810 is quite a nice keyboard, IMO better than the Apple bluetooth keyboard in terms of feel. It appears to be functionally identical to this new K480 and would appear to have the exact same physical keyboard.
Coming from a keyboard geek, their TK820 is by far the nicest keyboard they do in terms of actual keys and switches and the trackpad. It isn't backlit though, that's the only box it doesn't tick. I've got a K830 for the livingroom and it's nowhere near as good.
I know this is maybe nichey for certain people but lack of a print screen key on the TK820 is an issue for me. I loved it otherwise. Just got the 810 spoken of above and despite being a smaller unit, has the printscrn key.
yup, just picked up a k810, quite hapyy with it for my surface pro 3. Added my android phone as a 2nd device to pair to. Key strokes are good, connection has been very reliable, no latency. The apple keyboards have this bodily twang when typing on it (it cheapens the feel) that the k10 thankfully does not have. it feels more solid. I can't say it's the perfect keyboard, but it's great, worth the price. I even overpayed at my local big box store and I don't mind that much.
The only gripe I have with using bluetooth keyboards for my desktop is that batteries seem to drain much faster than the models using proprietary dongles.
I switch between a Macbook Pro and a Windows ultrabook (long story) and the keys are spaced slightly different on both. After couple days of finger-confusion, my hands just adjust to them easily. The mind/body is amazing that way.
The battery time is probably my biggest gripe with it as well. I keep the backlight continuously on at the lowest setting (it turns off when inactive), and I think I get around 3-4 days of heavy usage (note: ballpark estimate!). The battery is also not (easily) replaceable. So while it's no problem from day to day (and you could keep the USB cable connected at all times if you wanted too), it's quite poor compared to regular wireless keyboards. The USB cable is only for charging btw, so I've played with the thought of gluing one of those superthin Qi pads to the back of the keyboard :)
Yikes, that' abysmal. I have an iMac and use the apple wireless keyboard that comes with it and I can't even remember the last time I changed the batteries.
I may be mistaken about the battery time, so don't take my word for it. The Logitech site says about 10 days with backlight on (12 months(!) without it)[1]. And while I get the Ubuntu keyboard battery warning after 3-4 days, there still may be a few days left in it.
It's worth noting that the K810 is rechargeable, however. You can leave it plugged in over USB while it's at your desk, and unplug as needed. I carry mine around with a tablet as a laptop replacement and charge both every few days. I can handle 2 or 3 days of life if it means I don't need to stock AA batteries.
Yes, actually I like the idea of an internal chargeable battery through USB much more than replaceable AA batteries, since nowadays I´m very likely to have one (or two) USB chargers around when I´m travelling.
Of course, there are quite a few stands for a mobile device, so this shouldn't be a problem. I am not sure I would want to have the "monitor" so close to my eyes anyway...
Height 20 mm (0.79 inches)
Width 299 mm (11.77 inches)
Depth 195 mm (7.68 inches)
Weight 820 g (1.81 pounds)
The K810 requires a touch more to track down, but:
Width 287 mm (11.30 inch)
Depth/Length 127 mm (5.0 inch)
Height 5 - 10 mm (0.20 - 0.39 inch)
Weight 337 g (11.89 ounce)
Or you could turn your existing computer keyboard into a bluetooth keyboard for other peripheral devices for a fraction of the cost: http://www.eyalw.com/1keyboard
>> You don't have to own a Mac to own an Apple keyboard - they're compatible with Windows, OSX and many flavors of nix
On the surface, that's true, but there can be little annoyances related to function key behavior, etc. on non-Mac OSes. Apple provides a Windows driver, but they don't appear to offer the keyboard configurator in Boot Camp to non-Mac owners.
What's special about this Logitech keyboard is the switch to select the pairing with 3 devices so you don't have to pair and repair all the time to use the device with your phone and then your tablet and computer.
Yes! And also you can take it with you to take notes efficiently with your phone/tablet at school/conference! One keyboard for all you devices, so you don't have to buy multiple ones or get used to each keyboard. This is brilliant! All of this just with a switch, without any re-pairing!
Same with 1keyboard - it does not need re-pairing. Assign a shortcut once to any device you want to switch between devices you want to send to and it's just as convenient and fast as that dial-switch of the Logitech should be.
I'm using 1Keyboard both with a Moto G and iPad mini Retina on a MBP 15'' Retina.
Or you could turn your existing computer keyboard into a bluetooth keyboard for other peripheral devices for a fraction of the cost: http://www.eyalw.com/1keyboard
Great idea, problem with a lot of the logitech keyboards is because of their low cost construction the keys wear within a year in most cases, I've been through 3 in the past 3 years.
Very cool and useful product. I can't help but feel like I'm in some kind of cycle though, because I felt the same way about a KVM Switch 20 years ago.
It looks cool, but that round switch isn't as useful as it seems. It would've been better if they simply put three buttons up there - switching between devices would be easier (push of a button instead having to move your hand to the far left and turn a knob) and faster (switching from device 3 to device 1).
Personally, I wouldn't use this to switch between three screens at the same time, but rather using it to not have to pair it every single time I use the keyboard on a different device. That's quite frustrating.
182 comments
[ 5.0 ms ] story [ 228 ms ] threadAs a replacement for a "main" desktop keyboard, it looks a bit on the too-optimized-for-mobility side of things with chiclet-style small keys and so on.
I bet it will appear in many people's living rooms though, since seems very well designed (I love the device-selection knob!) for in-couch computing environments to control pads, phones, consoles or perhaps set-top boxes.
I am glad that Logitech are thinking of new features to add to their devices, but I resent such small improvements being seen as innovative and worthy of the HN front page. Is that really what innovation has come to, a bluetooth toggle switch? Are we really prepared to set the bar that low?
Very frequently.
A lot of my social communication happens through my phone, SMS and a plethora of mobile only communication platforms means that I am very frequently switching between my laptop and phone all day long.
> I don't doubt that the switching is quicker, but it's not that much quicker
Turning a knob is much faster than going into the settings menu on a phone (or on a computer!) and re-pairing. Repairing on a laptop can easily take 10+ seconds end to end from opening up the proper setting screen to BT scanning to actually finishing the pairing process.
Compare that to less than a second for turning a knob.
And again, this is something that I might be doing multiple times per minute.
I wonder if it maintains a connection with all paired devices or if there is a delay when you switch between them. I find that some of my devices take a while to connect/pair when I turn them on.
On the other hand, this might be a good gadget for, say, sales people using tablets on the go and sync at the office. I'm most probably out of target audience for this device.
A long time i've been thinking about getting an external keyboard for my phone since I don't really like a touchscreen when it comes to typing. But this keyboard over a mechanical keyboard isn't really an upgrade if you ask me. Better get a good coding keyboard! And if you really are thinking about self-improvement when it comes to coding and working behind your pc, I'd always suggest Steve Losh his article: http://stevelosh.com/blog/2012/10/a-modern-space-cadet/
MySMS: http://www.mysms.com/
WiFikeyboard: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.volosyukiv...
Couple.me: https://couple.me/
I really like this one: http://www.amazon.com/ZAGG-FOLZKFLEXSLV-Zagg-ZAGGkeys-FLEX/d...
I keep it in my pocket. Goes a few months on a single charge. It has made my phones entirely more useful to me. That said, a rotary switch would be pretty nice on this thing...
Otherwise, I know of quite a few people who could really use this thing!
Lenovo and Apple place the Fn key to the left of the Control key. Most others place them the other way around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fn_key#Fn_and_Control_key_place...
Love the idea though!
I can totally see how this could appeal to people who don't need/want a separate notebook machine, keyboard etc and can get by with just a tablet.
[0] http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/direct/hhkb/detail_enebrick.html ; http://enebrick.cerevo.com/en/
With this keyboard, the build quality seems even cheaper. They missed the chance to go solar (though that's debatable) and the fn key is in a different position than my current Logitech keyboards (they don't seem to have a guideline for this).
Also, once I broke my mouse, gave them a call and said "We are sorry that mouse is not in production anymore... So I will send you the newest version for free (80 euro price tag)."
However currently I use a M325 wireless mouse and its very tough. Carry it in my dusty laptop bag, dropped it a few times - no problems at all. No issues with rubber degradation. Highly recommended and works with unifying receivers.
[1] http://www.trial-n-error.de/posts/2012/12/31/logitech-k810-k...
By the time it arrives in shops that deliver to DE every single supplier will certainly make sure to offer a localized qwertz layout only. Shopping keyboards is hard here.
I've also just found that Currys (our last major high street electrical/electronics retailer that isn't part of a department store and is ubiquitous in most cities) has it available for next day delivery - http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing-accessories/accessori... - only the white version, sadly, and it's also £49.99.
Edit: Also, when pre-ordering on the Logitech UK website, it asks me to select my layout and color.UK layout is available (thankfully - a lot of Logitech portable Bluetooth keyboards available on Amazon are US layout only).
Now .. I can order it in various languages, the only English one being the UK layout. ;-)
I'm reasonably sure I want the US layout, trying to compare them now to spot the differences.
Edit: Yeah. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_and_American_keyboards - I am used to/want the US one. So still no luck unfortunately.
The tiny enter key is actually a requirement for me (to have \| in the right place). Hrm. So maybe I'll shoot one of these keyboards with the US layout on eBay in the future or something.
Full circle: Shopping keyboards is hard..
Seriously though, if you work with computers it's definitely worth your while to take a few weeks to learn how to touchtype properly in the layout of your choice.
I can touch type (although I've to admit that I'm not using the 'right' system. It works, both for text and code snippets and is quite fast, but .. well.. not the typical home row thing).
That doesn't help me here: The keys are physically in different places on these layouts. Look at a US keyboard and compare it with UK (or DE). Enter key, backslash, left shift key: Even if you remove the labels or just ignore them, keys are 'missing'.
[0]: http://matias.ca/onekeyboard/
http://ask.slashdot.org/story/12/08/23/1229240/ask-slashdot-...
(Search for Patent)
That's the innovation part. 1 wireless + 1 wired doesn't help you much if you want to use it with multiple mobile devices (tablet + phone, for example) besides laptops.
Personally, your keyboard would be useless to me; when I want to use laptop + tablet, I just use a regular keyboard and the Remote Keyboard app: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.onyxbits.re...
Is it easy to change the controller?
I have all the Apple devices I need (MBA, iPhone, iPad[* 1], iMac) synced through iCloud. Why would I wanna switch between them, to add a notification or send an iMessage?!
[1] That's kind false. I don't need an iPad, it's just a perk :-P
[1] http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/bluetooth-illuminated-... [2] http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/itemdetails/0B47189/460/60AC6A0...
Touch typing skill is worth at least 50 bucks, apparently :)
What is your experience with the K810 ?
[1] http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/...
Height 20 mm (0.79 inches) Width 299 mm (11.77 inches) Depth 195 mm (7.68 inches) Weight 820 g (1.81 pounds)
The K810 requires a touch more to track down, but: Width 287 mm (11.30 inch) Depth/Length 127 mm (5.0 inch) Height 5 - 10 mm (0.20 - 0.39 inch) Weight 337 g (11.89 ounce)
EDIT: dialed down the snark
2. Running OSX on standard hardware, Apple OEM or not, is not very hard...
2. I am not a non-OSX user because I can't afford to buy a Mac. I am a non-OSX user because I don't like OSX.
So... instead of just buying a portable bluetooth keyboard I need to build a hackintosh? Oh okay.
The Apple fans here never cease to amuse me with their asinine suggestions.
That's hardly a replacement for a portable keyboard.
On the surface, that's true, but there can be little annoyances related to function key behavior, etc. on non-Mac OSes. Apple provides a Windows driver, but they don't appear to offer the keyboard configurator in Boot Camp to non-Mac owners.
I'm using 1Keyboard both with a Moto G and iPad mini Retina on a MBP 15'' Retina.
So, they can make long lasting keyboards or at least used to.
For example, http://tinyurl.com/poo777c
Very nice productivity killer though.
Pairing every single time is actually a plus for me: It acts as a barrier to avoid multitasking in different devices.