Ask HN: Quit my job. Company coming after me
The timing was unfortunate as I quit the day after I received a performance award. I did finish up a major project before I quit though.
The day I announced my intention to quit, my manager asked me to reconsider my decision. After I stuck to my decision, he had the VP of HR talk to me. This was when things became a little unsettling. HR manager advised that I pack my belongings and leave the building before either VP A or VP B found out about my decision to leave. I was also told that I would not find any positions in the Medical Device Industry in the Bay Area. Towards the end of our conversation, HR lady mentioned that her mental state was transitioning towards anger. Due to these comments, I thought it best to leave the premises as soon as possible. I cleaned out my desk (on a friday), stayed for a few more hours, transitioned everything that I could think of to other co-workers, turned over my keys and left.
I later found out from another pretty reliable source that the company has decided to make life as difficult for me as possible. Other employees have been questioned of their interactions with me after I quit.
1. I need to discuss the issue with a good attorney if possible. I am really new to this area and don't have any contacts. References are appreciated.
2. I was asked to return a 100% of my sign-on bonus. I am willing to return it. However, about 30-40% of that was withheld for tax purposes. Do I give them the entire amount and claim the taxed amount from IRS?
3. I know that most of the issues here would probably be best discussed with an attorney. However, I would appreciate HN advise as well.
45 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 78.8 ms ] thread5. Stay tuned! Not sure what will come out of this, but don't want to go bankrupt or spend a considerable amount of time and resources in court for sure. I'd consider it a win if I can just write a check for the sign-on bonus minus the tax deduction and both parties forget about it. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.
Unless you have an employment contract that said otherwise your employment is "at-will", meaning you can be fired at any time and, in return, you can walk away at any time.
Two weeks is a common courtesy but is not required of anyone. Given the hostile environment, it probably would not have been a productive time anyway. And, obviously, the recruiters could care less.
It's also quite common that first 4-12 months in a new company (startup or not) are much more demanding than ongoing work (due to ramp up).
(I am not a lawyer, so get one to confirm, or get listen to another 10 random folks :))
Unsure about remaining questions: 1) can you do anything to prevent your defamation among recruiters and/or make them pay for it, 2) sign-in bonus tax issues.
But my point was that as far as ethical and personal issues go, I am not on your side. If I was your employer I'd be angry too :)
RE spending time on your own ideas, I think the problem is not strictly time. It's energy. I spend only 40-45 hours a week at work but it's intensive focused time that leaves leave me with barely 15 hours/week of high energy focused time on all of the rest: my hobbies and meaningful time with family combined. In startups there's expectation that you give all of it, not just 40-45 hours.
The way I read the OP (though this may be incorrect) wasn't so much that they were threatening to enforce a non-compete, but rather that they intended to blackball him within the local industry.
Funny how "living the dream" requires subjugating one's own autonomy.
Please, telling bright young people that working ones ass of for the benefit of the employer is the only path to a good life is a severe deficit of clear thinking. Some people enjoy doing lots of work for the work's sake and it's a totally fine way to live ones life - but it's not the only good and admirable way available. I'm not saying any other way is better, just that there are usually options available to clever people how to organize ones life.
Didn't anyone tell you? Free potato chips!
From my friends I know only one person who went to startup with the idea to (hopefully) make good money after careful risk/reward evaluation. Most people go to a startup for non-material reasons - like do more things with your own hands, more lively/friendly environment, different learning opportunities, flexbility to change roles, etc, etc.
RE working weeks. I haven't worked in a startup myself, but friends told me that generally there's an expectation of hardwork and long hours.
The important part - an expectation of long hours doesn't mean they will necessarily fire someone who works 8 hours per day, but it means you'll likely get medium rewards and medium respect from peers if you used to be top performer in a larger company. Which may be fine.
The fact that the author quit due to long hours after he got performance award indicates a potential for flexibility: e.g. maybe he could work less, say no to some requests or fail on some deadlines, and not get award, but still be good enough to not get fired and get interesting projects.
1. Did your sign-on bonus state that you had to stay a certain time to keep it. If not, don't give it back. They are hostile (and have already taken hostile actions) and haven't earned consideration. Any payment from you should come with them signing an onerous agreement.
2. If you have to give it back by contractual obligation, then pay the whole amount. You get the tax that was withheld by the IRS when you file. If cash is an issue, tell them you'll send the rest when it's refunded.
3. If they do anything to hurt you, you will be able to sue them for damages. Don't retaliate by naming/shaming/defaming them. Collect as much evidence as possible about whatever they decide to do and just have a lawyer write a letter. Say little to nothing publicly.
4. They are within their rights not to give you a good recommendation. You should not refer anyone to them.
5. I strongly doubt anyone will care what they have to say about you.
6. CA has employee-friendly non-compete. You can't use their secret information, but you can work for a competitor.
7. Quitting after receiving a performance bonus is so commonplace that it's boring. The entire NYC financial and legal industry basically plans their annual personnel strategy around it.
In California, when it comes to past employee recommendations, employers are protected if a statements are based on "credible evidence and made without malice." So yes they can give a bad recommendation but if it's bad just because they're upset it could be considered defamation.
Then - stop.
Don't do anything, anything, anything, without a discussion with said lawyer. Follow everything that lawyer says to a T - full stop. The only opinion that matters is the labour lawyer, who will undoubtedly base things on your contract, and any e-mails you exchanged prior to signing said contract.
Phone calls / voice conversations / things that aren't written down are too much of a he said/she said. Don't offer any money, don't so much as have a conversation with the company. For the time being, don't see your old co-workers, don't exchange email, just don't do anything.
tl;dr - Lawyer up
2) Don't pay them until you talk to a lawyer.
3) At-will is at-will and businesses are the ones who pushed for this concept, so don't lose any sleep over exercising your right to quit at-will (though I do think it is good professional behavior to give 2 weeks notice, especially if it will help wrap up any loose ends). The timing will always be unfortunate if the company sees you as a high-value contributing employee.
2. Follow the letter of whatever deal you had for your sign-on bonus. If your contract says you have to return it, do so. If it says it is pro-rated, do so. Don't invent new rules. If the contract doesn't say anything about returning it, don't.
3. Just make sure that your conduct is above reproach. Don't give them any excuse for going after you for any reason. Act professional, leave, you don't owe them anything.
Which, given that the OP had provided notice to your manager, and left immediately only because directed to by the company's HR manager, would seem to be damaging information concerning the OP's usual employment that was false and that the company knew, or reasonably should have known, was false -- i.e., quite likely actionable slander.
So, good reason to talk to a lawyer, especially if the OP believes the company's activities are likely to escalate if not constrained.
As for the bonus? Unless you are contractually bound to return it, tell them the money's spent and to write it off.
The whole black listing / smearing thing is mostly just talk. Given that they are that smarmy, others will know that about them as well. Having the 'award' will certainly put the question of who has the sour grapes out there. And hey it has given you some manager types you don't want to work for again. It is always an option of the company to walk you out the door once you decide to move on, that is more common when the company is worried about how your leaving will impact others, but I know of at least one company where it is standard policy.
The only risk of talking to a lawyer here is that they will get all excited and try to get you to take some action. Generally you have to ask, what is it you want? To complain? put a comment up on Glassdoor and move on. A lot cheaper than paying an attorney.