Ask HN: What is your daily rate?

80 points by xpto123 ↗ HN
This did not seem to have been done before here at HN and I think it would be useful. I propose some guidelines to replies but freestyle works great too.

I did not find anything against this in the guidelines, but if there is something wrong with the submission then apologies in advance. I believe that services companies and recruiters make a living of hiding this information from the developer community, and often take a 20-25% cut just for sending an email with a CV, a second email to schedule an interview and sending a contract for signature over the post. This is a proposal for replies:

Top level entry: "My current daily rate is RATE / hour or day, I work in COUNTRY"

Second line : "I work as a LANGUAGE Developer/Architect, I have X years of experience and my main skills are ..."

Extra details of whether is a remote position would be interesting as well. For replies to top level entries, comments of whether the person is being lowballed or not would help, even if you prefer not to give your rate yourself.

109 comments

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I'll start: My current daily rate is 62.5 EUR/hour, and currently work in Belgium (non-remote worker, 8 years exp.). I work as Java developer/architect and my main skills are Java, JavaScript, Spring, Hibernate, GWT, Camel, SOAP/REST web services, Maven
Is that before or after taxes? As a contractor?
This is before taxes, TVA excluded, as a contractor.
My current daily rate is $12/hour, I work in the Philippines I work as a Web Developer(ASP.NET), I have 4 years of experience and my main skills are .NET technologies
My current daily rate is 150 / hour, I work on the Internet thus anywhere in the world (but my Timezone is CST/USA)

I work as a Developer/Architect in whatever language, I have 30 years of experience and my main skills are drivers, OS development, embedded and networks.

(comment deleted)
This actually comes up quite often. Here's one recent instance:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2991350

... and here's my explanation from that thread, on why it's a very bad idea to rely on the responses you'll get when you ask the question here:

This would probably work better as a poll or an offsite, anonymous survey. I don't think you'll get very accurate results from limiting yourself to the small fraction of developers who:

  - don't mind disclosing their salary in public

  - don't have any co-workers, employers, or clients who read this site

  - have a single fixed rate that they charge everybody

  - don't plan to change their rate in the future

  - make enough to not feel silly disclosing their rate in public

  - don't make so much that they'll feel like they're just bragging
I'd personally be happy to tick a box, but I'm not going to quote my rate here.

EDIT: Here's a recent poll, with numbers severely skewed because the author initially capped it at $200k/year, thus losing granularity from the roughly 50% of early responders who were earning north of that:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6464725

I know but most people on this site use an anonymous handle, which solves most if not all those points: minding disclosing in public,co-workers, employers, or clients who read this site,plan to change their rate in the future, make enough /bragging, etc.

But it's true I wouldn't advise people disclosing their rate if their are not anonymous.

In general I believe most people are honest and if they reply it will be the truth. In my view there is a whole industry making a huge margin at our expense because we feel uncomfortable sharing this information, I have the impression we all have to gain by sharing this more often I believe. But of course we should take the content as a grain of salt and just an indicator.
That alone will skew the results downward.

Take a quick look through the "Top Commenters" list here, and you'll notice that nearly all of them use either their own name or a strong pseudonym tied to their real identity. Several of those guys are billing out at the kind of nice-to-have rates that a young dev with any sense aught to make his mission to replicate.

The guys responding below with silly pseudonyms, quoting two digit hourly bill rates, don't tell anybody anything interesting. Worse, they might just convince some poor soul that "you know, maybe $65/hour isn't so bad after all", and invite him into a lifetime of being underpaid when the reality is that he could 5X-10X that if he wanted to.

Just to understand, why do you believe using an anonymous handle skews the results downward? Most persons use anonymous handles online, except on places like facebook its a generalized practice. I personally don't see the correlation between those two things.

The name of the site is Hacker News, so I would expect a lot of people here to be security aware and in general use pseudonyms anyway.

I believe the argument is that most top commenters (which I suspect correlates quite well with high rates) are not pseudonymous, and thus unlikely to respond. See: patio11, tptacek, etc.
OK thanks, I see that that could have been what was meant.

But in my view there is no apparent co-relation between top commenters or rates. Most HN posters are likely anonymous independently of their rates, as in most programming forums.

FWIW: I bet you that there exist people with 0 < n < 100 HN karma who have weekly rates which beat Thomas' and my peak career rates, combined.
Oh, I don't doubt it. Outliers among outliers and all that.

I didn't mean to pick you two out as particularly high earners among the top HN users, FTR. You're just the two username/real name pairs I can come up with off the top of my head.

>Worse, they might just convince some poor soul that "you know, maybe $65/hour isn't so bad after all", and invite him into a lifetime of being underpaid when the reality is that he could 5X-10X that if he wanted to.

I'm interested in making 5X-10X of what I currently am. What should I do?

Charge more.
How do I know I'm worth what I'm charging?
By offering your services for a price and seeing if your clients agree.
You'll either get fired or people will keep paying you your new price.
Try calculating the value that you are providing to your clients. Even an estimate is better than nothing. Don't think in terms of your time, but in terms of the benefit your customers get from your work. If a script you put together in just an hour saves a company $50,000, they're still getting a bargain if you charge $1000 or $2000 an hour. Or more.

Try reading Breaking The Time Barrier from Freshbooks (free PDF): https://breakingthetimebarrier.freshbooks.com/

I've also heard good things about Brennan Dunn's "Double Your Freelancing Rate", though I've not yet read it myself and am generally reluctant to recommend 'courses': http://doubleyourfreelancing.com/rate/

My current daily rate is $15/hour, I work as remote freelancer from Albania.

I work with python/flask/postgresql/mongodb and have 2 years of experience in this stack.

$750-$900 daily (don't do hourly). Developer/Designer. 8 years experience. Much ado about iOS, Cocoa, etc. Bit of web and Windows. Anything that needs to be done, really.
My current daily rate is 30 EUR / day after taxes, I work in Hungary.

I work as a Java junior developer, I'm an entrant in the industry, started working in february. My main skills are Hibernate, SOAP web services, Wicket, Nvidia CUDA, and a little hint of C++.

(comment deleted)
My current dayli rate is 20.15€ / Hour I work in Denmark

I work as a "Student" Developer, I have programmed for 2 years My main skills are php and java. using linux platform for everything. EDIT: I'm charged about 40% of all my earnings in tax

My current rate is 65 EUR / hour after taxes. I work as an iOS developer in the Netherlands. Will try to negotiate 75 EUR / hour later in the coming months.
I charge $1K/day, out of San Francisco. I'm not a remarkable developer, but I've been running a production website for a few years and sell my practical knowledge on how to make all the pieces (LAMP stuff) fit together under actual use.
I'm rather surprised you don't charge more. Do you do much consulting work?
$20/hr, Southeast USA

C#/.NET Developer, 0.5 years of experience, C#, ASP.NET MVC, Front-end web development

My daily rate is currently ~$800-900 (salaried/stock options) in Silicon Valley - I have a little under 2 years of experience and am a top notch AngularJS expert & very productive frontend engineer (with a bit of full stack experience with Node.js & Java). I have been called a 10x engineer.
I'm curious, how did you become so productive within 2 years? Did you start with JS/Angular from the get go?
(comment deleted)
30 USD per hour, so c. 200 USD per day. Poland, but mostly remote clients. Mobile apps (crossplatform, also native iOS), occasionally some accompanying Python or PHP stuff on server.
11€/H.RO (~10€ after taxes). Back-end/Front-end senior web developer (PHP mostly).
My current rate is $240/day (60k/yr salaried) as a python backend engineer in NYC with 1.5 years of experience.
I don't think your hypothesis is correct. There are sites out there that already aggregate the permanent and contract markets. (i.e. itjobswatch.co.uk) - I'm sure others exist for other territories.

I know its fashionable to bash recruiters - and man do a bunch of them deserve it. But for contractors/freelancers - if you don't like selling then service companies/recruiters are your friend. Quit thinking of them as useless and start thinking about them as a sales channel who do something for you that you don't like. The key is to find the smart operators - who want to build a long term relationship (want to meet face to face etc etc) and don't talk crap. But thats about you taking the time to vet. Although I seldom need to employ because I'm doing a lot of my own sales, its a good backup and this works well in my market place (and I know of others in other markets who follow similar strategies), your mileage may vary.

Generally in the UK a recruiter's fee comes from the candidate if it's a contract role, and from the employer if it's a permanent role.

That's not precisely how it works, but companies accept there's a recruiter fee in the cost of a permanent hire, but will have a salary range they can offer, usually set as a policy by HR to stop wage inflation. Also the recruiter fee then is seen as a one-off cost.

For contract wages, companies tend to have an all-in price they're willing to pay, which they'd happily pay the contractor directly. At that point, the recruiter is usually taking the difference between that and what they pay the contractor. In most contract positions (in the UK) via recruiters, invoicing is done via the recruiter.

For me charging 25% to the contractor for the live of the contract is completely unjustifiable just for posting a job in some site and some emails and phone calls.
You may not like it, but there's no justification needed other than both parties to the agreement being happy with it.
I dont think anyone would be happy with such a lopsided agreement. Its borderline extorsion, it does not happen at this scale in many more professions. Developers are really taken advantage of by these intermediary companies that add no value after the initial contact. Their margins are growing thinner and maybe in a few years many of these companies are out of business.
The contractor is not really being charged 25%. Sure the agency, might end up with 25% (but I suspect its less).

The recruitment agency gets money, because they've taken the time to build a relationship/do sales stuff/navigate a procurement department/convincing someone they can solve the clients problem (I need more resource!).

Navigating procurement departments does not add any value to anything.

In the age of the internet, if a company needs some resources then the hiring manager could place the job description directly in some website instead of asking a recruiter to do it for him.

He can filter out CVs much more effectively by keywords using some GUI rather asking a recruiter to ask for the keywords on the phone.

He sends a mail/phones the candidate for an interview, how hard could it be? He needs to interview the candidate anyway.

I don't see how a few hours of administrative work for a hiring manager could justify the fortune that the procurement department will spend with the margin payed to the intermediary.

My current daily rate is $9/hour, I work in Indonesia I work as iOS Developer, I have 8 years of experience in IT and only 1 year in iOS Dev.

But I hope my hour rate will increase soon :)

On your next contract, quote your rate as $50 or $75 and see what happens. no harm in testing the waters :)
The minimum wage in Australia is $16.87, according to the article below. I'd have ethical & possibly even legal issues if I contracted someone at less than the national minimum wage. You should definitely charge more.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/minimum-wage-up-3-per-cent-ri...

Why? The minimum wage in Australia and it's legal boundaries do not apply to other countries. Plus, I don't see why there is an ethical issue in outsourcing work to another country where rates are lower.

The assumption you are probably making is that $9 an hour is too low. That's right if you are in Australia, but is that low for Indonesia?

Not sure about Indonesia but in Thailand that's about average for junior - mid level.

I worked in a company where they paid their head of mobile $13/hour and he was managing 3 Android devs and 3 iOS devs, each being paid between $6 and $9/hour.

One of the people I worked with directly as a marketing content writer was making $3/hour.

My current daily rate is USD$640/day, I work in UK/Aus/NZ predominantly. (remote and travelling mostly)

I work as a Full Stack .Net Developer/Architect for web applications, I have 16+ years of experience, with main skills in C#, MVC, jQuery, EntityFramework, SQL, Agile.

Am not an exceptional developer, but I have a good working relationship with my clients to help deliver on their projects. I don't actively network (that I'm aware of) but seem to get work through personal referrals, so must be doing something right.

Which country are you based and how often do you travel?
Funny, C# has been around 12 years. EF 6 years. jQuery 8 years.

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say you've been a developer and architect for 16 years, with 12 years experience in .NET?

Senior Perl developers in London should be getting £350-£450/day for onsite contracting work. The market seems to support £450/day, but that needs to include recruiter cost - that is, you're unlikely to get it if you're via a recruiter. Source: I run http://perl.careers/ and have been active in the London Perl market for the last 10 years as a dev and a recruiter.
Good to know. I shall bear this and you in mind when January rolls around...
$80 - $150 per hour (depending on the project) capped at 10 hours per week. Live in a GMT +2 area.

4 years rails XP. Help maintain a very big legacy codebase and have built a rails backend that served an education site that got thousands of concurrent visitors at peak.

Know enough devops to provision a secure server, and do deployments via capistrano or ansible.

Is that capped at 10 hours per week per client, or in total?
Total. I like my free time.
That's awesome. Love that approach.
I'm also interested in what you mean by "10 hours per week" and how you present that to clients, and what sort of pushback (or not) you've experienced from clients about that.
Exactly that. I won't offer more of my leisure time to clients per week. Haven't had any upset about it yet.
$1600/day, 8 hours/day, 5 days/week, remote (NO TRAVEL), USA. I write software for startups that have raised in the $5-20M range with at least $1M/year revenue. My software is mostly written in C, C++, Java, Python, Ruby, JavaScript. I began programming more than 15 years ago, although I only "officially" entered the industry during 2010.

Don't set my salary as some sort of goal. Lawyers with 1/5th of my experience or talent go for 2-5x easily. Hell, I should go get a JD.

I think you're sorely mistaken about lawyer salary.
Yes, mistaken. 3yrs experience at $1000/hr? Not to mention the rates you see are usually firm rates not net to an individual so you have to take out other costs.
But what part of the curve are you looking at? You really think that top 0.01% of lawyers are making less than $900k/year? How good do you have to be at year 4 to hit that kind of target?
The UK largest law firms, 4 of which are amongst the top 10 firms in the world, nets something like $3 million - $5 million per equity partner.

Note that this is per equity partner. Many of the largest firms are increasingly choosing to award "partner" status without an equity share as they grow larger, and a non-equity partner will already earn much less.

Most of the top firms will pay a maximum of about $300k/year to 4 year PQE (post qualification experience) in the UK, with UK offices of leading US firms at the top. There may be exceptions for people that make themselves really noticed and manage to land big bonuses. That's generally 6 year after leaving university because of the UK system of training contracts. 2 year PQE's in UK Magic Circle firms can earn about $100k/year.

Some smaller boutique firms in niches may pay substantially more, but they will also generally not take trainees and instead hire away top talents from the leading firms.

To get those kind of salaries you mention by year 4, the answer would be you'd need to bring in big enough clients that your firm is worried you'll walk.

In the UK, lawyers mean salary is below the national average. A couple of years ago it was 25k GBP / $40k. Lawyers salaries get a reputation of being high because most people don't realise that:

1) most lawyers do not work in front-facing roles in law firms. They are in house counsel, or consultants, or work in finance or employment or for charities or many other fields where salaries are low.

2) the hourly rates they see are 2-3 times higher than the lawyers salary on the low end. In big law firms the multiple is much higher, because there's a massive amount of support staff (e.g. my ex practised at a law firm big enough to have a 24/7 team to print documents, 24/7 IT support helpdesk for staff etc.), and because that's how the partners make their profit.

3) there's a small core of really, really expensive lawfirms that gets all the headlines. E.g. in the UK we have the "Magic Circle" lawfirms (the five largest UK firms - of which 4 are in the top 10 largest lawfirms worldwide - the rest of the top ten are US firms), then the "Silver Circle", and then the rest. The Magic Circle lawfirms have training contracts that pay in the GBP 40k+ range, and 1 year post-qualification lawyers can earn 60k-100k (GBP). Salaries then tend to go up by huge steps every 6-12 months, so up to several hundred k GBP for senior associates, and a couple of million for partners in some of these firms. Far more for equity partners in some niche firms. Now consider the mean salary again, and consider how much these firms pull it up...

4) many of the "best" paying firms works people to the bone, and so absolute salaries are high, but hourly rates are not. My ex. qualified at one of the Magic Circle firms, and though she made more than twice the UK average salary, two years out of university, she worked so many hours that her hourly rate was less than what her secretary was paid (she's since shifted to a non-practising role in the same firm for exactly this reason; coming home at 3am was not enough to make the money worth it). She was billed out at 200 GBP per hour, but her salary was fixed, so of course it was in the firms interest to work people as hard as possible. And everyone in these firms are asked if they will "voluntarily" sign away the EU Working Time Directive restrictions (UK has an exception from the Working Time Directive that allows UK employers to do this; in theory it is illegal to punish staff for not signing a waiver; then there's practice). She could easily earn in her yearly salary for the firm in 5 weeks of billing.

Where are you based out of? And how do you maintain a steady flow of projects? Is it mainly through your network or client referrals?
Based out of nowhere useful, USA. Often I don't say, because often they don't care, and it would be harmful anyway. Projects come in regularly, but I reject almost all of them. Good project picking is tricky. Know when to drop relationships (hint: it's not "never").
care to elaborate on "projects come in regularly"? are you actively looking for new jobs yourself? if yes, where? are companies approaching you? how do they find you?
Care to detail how you got into the industry/this niche? Pretty awesome you were able to break into a gig like that in only a few years.
my current employer gives me 11 EUR/hr. However i charge 15 EUR/hr for smaller freelance jobs.

i work as an (mainly php)associate software engineer, in the netherlands, have a half year of experience. my main skills are LAMP.

I am interested in a remote positions, as well as local (but i am particular about which time of day I work).

Even with only six months of experience, €15 is really low for a freelance rate in the Netherlands. Remember that you usually need to reserve about half of your rate for taxes, rent, investments, etcetera, so you're actually getting paid less for freelance jobs than with your regular job.

Freelance rates i've seen in the Netherlands usually range somewhere from €50 on the lower end to €120 on the higher end.

You are quite right, I should get more. By all means hire me at 50 an hour. If you'd do that, I'll go as far as to quit my safe job so all my time can go to you. You won't be disappointened ;)
£400 + VAT, UK.

PHP Developer and not even a top notch one, i'm solid, but no rockstar, i am however full stack and I have other generic business skills. I also have an excellent portfolio with some very large names on them as well as almost 10 years experience doing this.

You dont need to be an amazing developer to be successful, i'd actually say theres actually more value in getting complimentary skills rather than the last 10% developer skill which is what takes the longest to achieve anyway.

Nice, do you mind sharing which region you work in?

I'm in the midlands and lucky to get £350 and have been pretty lucky to work with some huge brand names to make my portfolio shine, but clearly this isn't enough!

Even with years of ZF experience I still seem to struggle to find good interesting contracts in the region.

I'm in Birmingham. There isn't much dev. work in the West Midlands in my experience. Most of our work comes from London and further afield. Rates depend on the nature of the work, but 2-4x what you quote is a reasonable range. (I work primarily with Scala. I don't do paid work 5 days a week as I have longer term projects to work on.)
Yeah that is primarily London, i live in Edinburgh where theres next to no work but typically work in London. Although i've had the odd contract up here or remote for decent money. I'm flexible down to £350 a day if its an interesting project to me.