Ask HN: How I can get out of a job that has me burned out and exhausted?
Four years ago I started a job and it was pretty good at first. But due to some corporate changes everybody just got slammed with work. Upper management does not think it's wise to hire more people so they are burning everybody out and people are leaving. The workload is unmanageable and it just never ends.
It's time to move on but I am just too burned out. I have even recently caught myself forgetting pretty basic stuff. My weekend are just spent recovering from the week really. I don't do much activity that I used to for fun because I am just so tired. I asked my psychiatrist and I am not depressed.
Any advice?
65 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 141 ms ] threadIf you are single with no dependants, then it can be anything you want. Do something where you don't take work home. I burned out on Sys Admin work and worked as a bartender for a year and loved it and came back as a .Net developer.
If you have a family...Um... That's a much more complicated scenario. Definitely do something new, but navigating that is going to be a lot trickier.
Just quit.
Or... take unpaid leave, medical if need be, and have some time off.
Just quit, have a vacation, apply someplace else.
Jogging, workout, walking, cycling, swimming...whatever you like at whatever time and duration are convenient to you.
They give you a kind of physical and mental high that'll help cope with stress.
I felt short term boosts in self-confidence and more long term improvements in memory and recall (YMMV, of course).
Let us know if there's any specifics that make your situation unique.
In any case, I'd make a schedule. For example make a plan to quit in two months. That'll give you some relief as it's something to work towards. Use up any vacation days you've got left. Tell your boss in a month from now you're quitting. And save up every penny the next two months you can to build a bit of a buffer. Try to save up enough to pay rent and food and such for a few months.
And really, start applying for other jobs. When you do tell your boss you're quitting, tell him you disagree with the current workload and that you'll be quitting in 4 weeks unless you can work something out. Perhaps they can propose a middle ground, if not you can leave.
In general do everything you can to not be dependent on your current job, meaning: find alternative jobs + build up some savings.
It is in everyone's, and especially upper management's, best interest that the company does well. Rather than vilifying "upper management" and quitting and being bitter about it, can you have a constructive conversation with someone up the chain to help you AND the company out? If you're going to leave then what do you really have to lose?
If it were me I would approach someone and say something along the lines of:
"I'm quite concerned for the well being of the company/organization/whatever. I noticed that there were some corporate changes recently and since then many employees, myself included, have felt burnt out and some have even started leaving. I think this is due to the fact that we are understaffed and this problem is only going to be exacerbated as people leave. What do you think?"
This could result in a number of things including decreased workload, more hires, or nothing. In the positive cases everyone is happy and in the third you don't lose anything and can still quit your job.
Best of luck!
He simply stated a fact, there was no vilification. Their reason was they didn't think it was wise, people are being burned out and quitting. No name calling, no vilifying management there. Sometimes the truth isn't flattering.
While this may theoretically work in some situations and is arguably "worth a shot" for someone with so little to lose, I've seen workplaces similar to the ones the original post is describing and the times I've seen this happen talking things out with management was not fruitful.
In my experience (admittedly anecdotal and a relatively small sample size), in a company that goes sideways as described by OP you have 1-3 levels of manager on top of you who are just as frazzled by the whole situation as you are. They will commiserate, throw their hands in the air and tell you they've tried pushing for changes, realistic release dates and/or hiring more resources and have been denied by levels above them. Talking directly to their managers (VP or perhaps higher at this point) ends up in a pleasant conversation about vague, nebulous reasons why things can't change right now and everyone has to buckle down to help the company toward the brighter future that is right around the corner. They will rarely-to-never give you direct reasons, eg. the company is running out of money and seriously can't afford any extra resources, and the next release is a hail mary attempt to save the business and that's why it needs to be out on date X because the runway is totally gone at X+Y where Y is a laughably small number if you ever actually learn it.
I think you're attributing a level of rationality and benevolence to upper management that doesn't always (or even often) exist.
It may very well be that the reason they aren't hiring more people is because they want to increase the money that goes into their own pockets. Or maybe they themselves have burned out and become bitter about "disloyal" employees who keep quitting and they don't have any energy left to do something about it.
Then I went to Mattermark and read about it a bit... could be useful. Maybe a bit excessive to get more than the free trial for a job search, but, for investing, it could be useful.
Mattermark went through YC recently with Kevin as CTO.
Advice will be helpful. But in the end, the only one who can leave your job is you. It sounds like you need to do it, so just do it. You'd be surprised how well you can think for yourself once you make yourself do it. :)
2. Look for new jobs...passively, at first. Put up a LinkedIn...if you're a developer, put up a Github profile. If you're a Ruby/Rails/Python, definitely put up a Github profile...I have a perfectly fine job but I keep getting recruitment emails from YC and big Valley companies simply because I have (pretty much non-used) repos that are classified as being Ruby.
3. Don't piss off anyone at your current company. See #1 - reduce any resentment or frustration you're feeling. Meditation helps. But mostly, no matter what, remember that this is just temporary...any negative feelings you have now, you're going to look back in a month (from the perspective of your new job) and you'll think..."Why was I so down/angry ?" Negativity/pessimism isn't all bad...if it spurs you on to greater things. But it sounds like you're already on your way to looking for greater things, so no need to let negativity eat at you past that point.
Edit: riffing off of other advice in this thread
4. If you aren't overworked, or even if you are, I would definitely work on some side projects, or find an open source project to contribute to. Not just for resume padding (which is frankly, not going to be enough motivation for you to work on it diligently), but to hone your skills, as it sounds like you're worried that the drain at work has caused you to regress a little. Aim for the side-projects to be as much of a win-win as possible...even if the side-project isn't popular or completely polished, have it at least be useful to you, in your own life...not only is that kind of project fun to build, but it gives you something to be passionate to talk about, either in normal life or in interviews.
1 get off work no later than 6pm
2 walk/jog/exercise
3 cook your own tasty+healthy dinner and share it with friends
4 read a bit
5 find some hobbies
Do this for a few weeks. Then figure out what you want to do next.
Oh yeah, watch "Office space". Seriously.
This is something you can only do when things are crazy and out of control, and everyone else is leaving. You see, they cannot fire you because they cannot hire anyone to come in. Thus, you doing any work is better than having noone.
Make sure to communicate that these won't be done. Tell them that they need to make contingency plans and give them your own schedule of reasonable dates. (Of course, you need to make sure to make these dates.)
If they bring you in for discipline, play the health card. "Health is something you cannot pay enough for me to exchange. I started having major health problems, and they were stress related. I cannot meet the given dates, and I am communicating that. It is your job to manage client expectations as a manager."
The current climate for programmers means that you can do this right now.
It's always a trade off. The organization does what it can get away with. You can pull back to 40 hours but someone else will fill the vacuum that you left behind.
So: I agree. Tell your bosses that they need to better manage client expectations, but recognize that they won't because they think they don't have to (other people are doing the work right? Management's work/life balance is fine!) You might be giving up some upward mobility or your 'irreplacable status' in your team. If you're anything like me, this will be an acceptable price to pay for you to regain some work/life balance and your health.
I guess I should provide the disclaimer that a lot of this depends on your history with the company. I singlehandedly got my company through a transitional period that has caused it to double in size since. That bought me a lot of capital. And while I have not been able to keep up that pace since then, my bosses remember even if their attitude seems to be, "What have you done for me lately?"
That's fine and all. Sometimes you need to do that.
But, more often than not, the following advice is more beneficial:
Stop waiting for life to get easier. Stop wishing for things to slow down and for you not to be so tired and burned out.
Chances are life will get faster and more difficult. Chances are things will not get easier.
So, instead, focus on getting stronger.
One thing is in your control the other is not.
“Don't wish it was easier wish you were better. Don't wish for less problems wish for more skills. Don't wish for less challenge wish for more wisdom”
― Jim Rohn
The human spirit is indomitable.
Remember that.
It doesn't matter where you go, until you change, everything will remain the same.
edit: For relevant context: if you're thinking about quitting, your alternatives are 1) give two weeks and leave, for another job or not.
2) stay and say nothing, hope it gets better
3) Risk it. Talk to your boss. Apply for other jobs quietly if you want some security.
So this time you'll need to take a chunk out of your savings. Don't even bother looking for a new job until you're two months in to your sabbatical.
Next time, get out before things get this bad.
Wikipedia has the Freudenberger and North model of burnout. I'm sure you'll find yourself on there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnout_(psychology)#Phases
My advice: start working on a side project which will give you satisfaction from every half hour of your work. Does not need to be an IT project. You'll think of something.
I'm not sure there is another good way to interpret that statement.
The reason I ask is because that is the only way I could reconcile "The workload is unmanageable and it just never ends." It's hard for people who haven't experienced it to explain why you can't just start saying no to requests and leaving the office on time (even though this is possibly the only way to salvage the situation).
If you see a large number of co-workers, especially good ones leaving. Its a sign something is wrong.
">>> It's time to move on but I am just too burned out."
If you know its time to move on. Leave. If you have savings, pay off your rent and bills for 3-4 months and rest. Take walks(seriously take slow walks and relax), take up a relaxing hobby, cook food (fresh food - no canned food), and get enough sleep (7-8 hours minimum),whilst looking for another job.
I love working hard and I enjoy challenges, but if it means risking your health/social life/family life to meet an unrealistic deadline, this is where I draw the line. I used to work for a big company during summer vacation and the upper management had the exact same attitude your said about hiring people. They wanted a 5 man team to do a 10 man job.Into the second month I was already depressed, hoping for the summer to finish quickly. Since the day I left the place, I told myself I'll never work for a place which has a crappy work/life balance again.
Remember you are replaceable and they know it.
You don't even have to lie if you don't want to. Every time I've gone looking for a job without a direct contact I could tap, it took several months. Looking for a job is a long slow process that takes maybe a couple of hours a day, even if you really work at it. It takes much less if you don't particularly push. It can be pretty much a vacation if you want it to be one.
Also, scale back your time. Communicate this to management: "I just can't do this anymore". Last time I did that (2005) they said they would start looking for my replacement. A few months later they were still looking and I had a new 30h/week job+3weeks+healthcare at a bank walking distance from my apt.
Treat yourself correctly and the world will do the same.
It ends at 5pm. Job searching starts at 5:30pm. Don't wait too long to find another job or else you'll be desperate and take another bad job or sacrifice negotiating power.