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Ask HN: How do I look for a job without my current employer finding out?

17 points by SeekingAnOut ↗ HN
The situation: I work at a small startup in a city that is not SF or NY. Though the company is small it is somewhat high profile in our city and our founder is well connected with devs, managers, and founders at many of the companies with open positions that I would consider applying for.

Some context: Our founder on two occasions has told me that he heard from people at other startups that an employee of his (a coworker of mine) had applied for a job there. In both cases the people making the call are well respected people in our community. Perhaps I was/am naive to think that that was inappropriate. Neither person got an offer from those companies and it made things very weird at work.

Why I'm thinking of leaving: I like my job a lot but frankly I'm pretty sure I can get a better offer somewhere else and I'd like to see if that's true. However, if I do apply to a few places and don't get offer I'd prefer to avoid any weirdness at work.

How do I go about dealing with this?

20 comments

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henrixd
Why would you have to hide it? You have contract with your employer and it is normal to sometimes look for better contract elsewhere. Sometimes employer might use unfair means to keep employees but is that the kind of workplace you want to work in?

I would be open about it and from it's reasons. Sometimes they might even make an counteroffer or change things to better. At least this is how it should work in adult world. But maybe I come from different culture, so what do I know.

tdicola
Not in the US--it's pretty rare for a full time employee to have some kind of contract that retains their employment. In fact in a lot of states employment is considered 'at will' and you can be let go at any time for any reason (or no reason!). The big exception is if you're a 'protected class' like certain races, above a certain age, etc. but that just means the employer has to prove they didn't fire you because of that protected class.
henrixd
That is kind of fucked up. Here (in EU) most of the problem would be hiding that you want to leave not that you are leaving. If I inform my employer that I am considering leaving he can get replacement in time and nobody can't be fired for expressing will to change jobs (or other stupid reasons). If my employer would act like a child after that, I just wouldn't care what he thinks and would keep seeking other jobs.

OK, I (kind of) get it. I admit that I'm childish and think that everybody plays with the rules. In reality it wouldn't go like this at all. But I'm one of those idiots who lives like everybody should, without caring how it just punishes me and not anyone else.

HeyLaughingBoy
Let's clarify that, shall we?

"Certain races" are not a protected class. Race itself is a protected class in that you cannot be let go for reasons of race.

Of course, as you already said, that really doesn't matter. If they want you out, they'll find a way.

thret
Apply for jobs in other cities, or alternatively just ask your founder? There's less weirdness if he knows where you stand. Also he seems to know a lot of people who are hiring, so if he can recommend you then that might make it easier to get a better offer.
vishaldpatel
As long as you're not applying for jobs during work hours, you should always say, "Yes! I'm always looking for a better job when I'm not at work! =)".
tdicola
To which the founder will reply, "It's your lucky day! Now you have all the time in the world to look for a better job. Pack your things and get out, now."
sheepmullet
Not if always looking for work was the norm. Got to start somewhere.
davelnewton
Not a particularly realistic, or motivated, founder.
ScottBurson
That is infuriating, isn't it, that these applications weren't kept in confidence? IANAL, but I wonder if your co-workers might not have grounds for lawsuits. It certainly has a chilling effect on your efforts to find something better.

How attached are you to living in this particular city? Because I don't see any likely way out except to apply for jobs elsewhere.

yen223
Whether it's a dick move aside, are there any laws protecting job applicant info?
joezydeco
That's going to really be a he-said she-said situation. How can you prove that the two companies talked? Perhaps if OP had a job offer and then all of a sudden it was pulled, there could be a reason for a defamation lawsuit.

Remember that saying: never attribute to conspiracy that which you can attribute to incompetence. It's more likely that someone just blabbed about your previous coworker and word got back to the boss.

If you choose to interview with some of those other companies, you're going to have to do it SUPER stealthy. No correspondence or phone calls during work hours. Don't even sneak off to take personal cell calls. Interview after-hours or on weekends if possible.

Explain the situation to the new employer. If they need the help they could really give two craps about the fortunes of your current boss and will help you make the jump. If they do talk to your boss then, well, they probably can't be trusted with other things.

mallyvai
If what you're saying is true, then it's a pretty gross breach of trust and privacy. I don't care how small a community is, there should be some minimum expectation of privacy around a transition, independent of the legality.

Drop me a line - mallyvai at offerletter.io - I guide a lot of other engineers on job-related stuff (i founded offerletter.io ) - we may be able to help here (and we're absolutely discreet about this stuff :-)

-V

junto
You and your employer have a simple arrangement that you provide him with your time and expertise and he pays you an agreed amount every month for your trouble. You aren't marrying him. That contract can be terminated by either party under a variety of circumstances. Neither of you should expect some kind of loyalty to stay with the company. Don't believe for a minute that your employer wouldn't let you go if he had to or wanted to.

This is your career and your life. If it comes back on you then you explain that you are looking to earn your full potential.

There is an old adage in sales. If the customer wants to buy your product then the only thing that's stopping him buying it is the price.

You're the product. You need to be happy that your are being paid what you are worth, otherwise it will eat you up from the inside every day you get out of bed.

fooboy
This. My comment history displays all sorts of worry about my place at work. I recently realized I've just been upset by how I've been underpaid for years in an extremely hot labor market and specialty.
frandroid
You tell the companies you apply with that you don't want them to contact your current employer, and you will judge them on how good you keep their tongues tied. And you mention the previous occurrences.

Anyway, the point is, if your employer has employees looking elsewhere, they should be looking into what they need to do to make these employees' jobs better. The fact that the employer shares that these people are looking elsewhere doesn't reflect well.

samfisher83
Sounds like collusion. Might be hard to prove. If apple and google can do it I am not sure why some small company can't.
ttn
You should either talk to your founder about these or look for a job in another city (maybe country?)
JSeymourATL
Don't ever apply for a job. Never submit a resume.

Do get out and network every week. Strategically look to connect with senior executives in your space who you know how to help. Use Linkedin to find ideal profiles. If the conversation turns towards making a move. Be sure to say, you may be open to opportunity. But any discussion must be privileged and confidential. *Incidentally, find out the 2 start-ups that blabbed about your colleagues. Quietly black-list them.

HeyLaughingBoy
I do consider it inappropriate. I'm also looking and I'd be a bit irritated if it got back to my current employer. That said, there's no rule against looking around and it's in your best interest to always know what you're worth to the market and what else is out there. And that's the answer you give them if they find out.