Ask HN: ”Coffee date” etiquette

I agree that it would be weird to call the hiring manager "out of the blue"—I would ask for an introduction, rather than a phone number. If your friend is a bit introverted, have them introduce you via email, then respond with a (very short) bit about who you are and what your motivation is.

> Still, I must admit it would feel a bit weird to ask my peers for their manager’s number and then ask the manager if they want to meet, just ”out of the blue”.

That would be strange. Wouldn't you get your friend, the intermediary, to set up the "date?"

I'm a sysadmin manager in the US. Let's suppose that I have a position open (at http://www.smartleaf.com/careers/) and that you think you're qualified for it.

You could send me your resume and a cover letter. This would be impressive, because very few people manage to do this according to my rigorous demands (plain text or PDF, tell me a story about an interesting technical problem you solved).

Or, if you knew someone at the company, you could talk to them and have them talk to me. I will generally trust their opinion enough to set aside time for coffee with you.

At least in the US, discussing coffee date etiquette usually carries the context of meeting a potential partner. Not so much regarding a relationship establishment for a job. Not to say that this would be frowned-upon, just unusual.

I think that if the two parties are in very near vicinity of each other, meeting over coffee could be a nice replacement for the typical first phone interview (finding out the prospect's experience/aspirations/etc.). I also feel like one would get more responses to these inquiries in Silicon Valley as opposed to, say, the Northeast.

I think like everyone is kind of saying here, the key is an introduction/intermediary to get your foot in the door. Even if it's just a friend of a friend. Otherwise, you can always try to e-mail out of the blue but calling is probably a little bit too aggressive. The worst thing that could happen is that someone doesn't reply to your e-mail.

Also, I'd be prepared for this meeting to be not just about you getting a job. Come with a lot of interesting questions to ask the person and make it about them and their company. When they ask about you, casually drop that you're looking for a new gig but don't make a big deal about it at all.

The purpose of a coffee date is to weed out people who don't drink coffee. You wouldn't want to work with such a freak of nature!

    - Shall I put rum in the coffee?
    - Sure.

I'd personally prefer a nice personal sounding email than a cold call from someone I don't know, but it's not that big a deal. I've gotten "out of the blue" requests like this before and I usually say yes. If the request came via an employee, I'd definitely say yes.

The best way to get a job is to get a personal introduction to the hiring manager and build rapport with them. I would not ask for their manager's number. I would ask them to make an introduction. That will carry much more weight. A "Coffee Date" is a common way to have that initial meeting. It is perfectly reasonable to suggest (or have the person introducing you suggest) meeting over coffee. It's just a social nicety that can help break the formality of a first 'interview'.

Ask your peer for an introduction. It's always much better to be introduced by someone the manager knows or respects than via a cold-call. (It plays on association fallacy in your favor)

If you don't know anyone who knows the manager, find their contact information and contact them, informing them you're very interested in the position they have open and you would love to discuss it over coffee. It's not "out of the blue" because they have been looking for someone to fill a position, and you are that someone.

Also, keep in mind that some hiring managers may ignore you or put off meeting/interviewing you until you bug them enough. I was kept in limbo for a couple months once because I was afraid of being "pushy" while they were basically waiting me out.

Also having some pretext for the date helps I think; asking for advice on how to get a job for the role you're interested, better understanding the company culture and working practices or advice for some other particular situation could all be good reasons to meet. Setting out the reason for the date (in your email response to the email introduction) will make it more likely that your request will be taken up.

1. Find an Introduction 2. "Do Lunch" or "Do Coffee" don't call it a "date" 3. Talk about problems that are interesting that you've solved(or that they are solving) 4. ??? 5. Profit!

I always give the same answer to questions regarding social etiquette/propriety: just be normal. Seriously, you're overthinking it. Just be a normal person. Make people comfortable, help them get what they want, and smile. That's all you need. If you think something is weird, it probably is, purely because you'll make it weird by thinking that. Would you want to go on a coffee date with someone who was worried it was a weird thing to do?

Dale Carnegie knew what he was talking about. In general, if you treat people like people, you'll do well.

It's fine to ask for a coffee meeting if you want to learn more about an industry, position, or the company.

Hiring, and interviewing is as much about mutual likeablitily as it is skills and qualifications. You can always train for skill and knowledge more than you can train for attitude.

Another thing to remember is as more medium and large companies start to use applicant tracking systems, they generally filter out very good people who don't happen to have the right keywords in their resume that they upload.

Standing out will become more important in those cases.

Ultimately, while what you know is important, who you know can help.

The idea is that you area always better off if you have a personal connection to a human being.

Most hiring managers would be thrilled to be introduced to someone talented who comes recommended by someone they trust.

The point of having coffee is to have an informal chat which allows for lots of information exchange without the formality of an interview (for either party).

Also, you get a good sense of things like culture fit and interests, which can often make a big impact on hiring decisions.

In addition, that you want to get to know the manager is a good sign that you take your career seriously and want to work somewhere only if it's a very good fit.

People who already have a great job don't make knee-jerk career decisions. Doing a coffee signals that.

As everyone else has mentioned, ask your peers to introduce you directly to the manager. A couple of things:

Include a brief but enticing paragraph on why you are awesome. It makes it a lot easier for the "intro-er" to forward or reword it.

Be respectful of the other's time. Depending on the company and job, some people really welcome a break for coffee for a potential hire or an interesting person; others are swamped, and the triviality of a "coffee date" will be easy to turn down. Try to gauge which this is.

Coffee meetings can be take, take, take. Try to give back. Maybe you have something the other could learn?

> Is it okey to ask someone (my peers) to give out someone else’s (the manager’s) number?

I generally get these kinds of invites via either email or LinkedIn. I wouldn't appreciate a cold call.

After that the only etiquette I'd expect is: - ask to meet close to my office, I will not travel. I usually invite people to the office - Expect no more than 30 minutes - You do the running during the meeting - don't expect me to drive the meeting. If it looks like you'd be a fit I'll have my own questions.

I'm Irish/based in Ireland.

I have had a lot of current/potential candidates ask me to get coffee and I usually avoid it unless a) they come highly recommended from someone I trust and/or b) they appear to be exceptionally qualified. Unless one or both of those are met, I think the meetings are more often than not a waste of time unfortunately. However, if it's someone who comes recommended from someone I trust and appears to be a great fit for a role we are hiring now or in the future, I'll jump at the opportunity to meet and prioritize that.

How common is it to have a peer who can introduce you to a hiring manager? I have plenty of friends, and none can get me a meeting with a hiring manager at a good company. Most of my friends are unemployed or working at Panera Bread.

Any advice?

I'm also based in Sweden. I would recommend you attend to any meetup.com you are interested in. The organizers are usually scouting. If you talk to people and discuss the presentation (many don't) you'll get fika invites instead of asking for them!

There is the concept of an informational interview -- meeting over coffee to ask about a person's job/industry/company -- but that is distinct from meeting a hiring manager. It may be as effective in the job hunt, although it is not as direct. Consider it, though, as it may be more informative to talk to someone who does a job you'd like to do at a company you're interested in. If that person then recommends you to the hiring manager, you're in a nice position.

I don't want to speak for patio11 or anyone else, but "meeting over a cup of coffee" shouldn't be thought of as "a way to get a good job", at least directly. It's not a replacement for the interview process, anyway, at least at any place of employment that won't fit into a single meeting room. Instead, it's (a) a social occasion where you can (at least pretend) to (b) learn about the employer or industry. (b) is as in, "what would I need to learn or do to be an interesting employment prospect".

For (a), an introduction from someone you mutually know would be best, but theoretically, a cold-call to the tune of, "I would like to know more about X and Y, would you have a few minutes to talk to me," would be appropriate.

Sooo much good advice here! Thanks to everyone who has responded. This is very useful for me and hopefully for other readers as well.

The normal way to do it is just to drop an email to a relevant person, set a context and ask if they'd be willing to meet for coffee.

Although if you already know someone in common you could do it more casually (i.e. join them for after work drinks).

Don't turn HN into Reddit.