Tell: Got 50% bump for faking a counter offer
I lied about another counter offer at negotiation time and the new company bumped the total offer package from $170,000 (base $130,000) to $260,000 (base $155,000 ) to match the fake counter offer and also bumped the offered titled two levels up. Shows the importance having a counted offer. I have 9 years of software development experience and current and new company is in Seattle Area. Just wanted to say it to somebody about the guilt which I cannot refuse to have.
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[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 46.6 ms ] threadThis move, while very gutsy and sometimes very effective, only really works in an industry where you're in high demand and/or you're essential to the operation of your current employer.
But, in either case, there's no guarantee. Your old boss might certainly counter-offer and give you the higher salary, but only long enough to find a replacement employee at (or even less than) your old salary. Then your salary very abruptly drops to $0.
(Of course if they're not interested in you anyway it doesn't matter how many offers you have.)
Remember, recruiting is a job too. The people who do it at the company want to hire you, they want to get those positions filled, that means they are doing their job well.
Or you can just lie about it, as OP did. Perhaps a risky maneuver, but if it's plausible for you to be in demand, I don't see why it's not worth trying.
Personally my approach is a bit more basic. I ask for what I want, and if you don't wanna give it to me then fine, someone else will. But, my numbers are definitely not on OP's level, that is an impressive level of compensation.
So I end up having multiple phone interviews and then on-site interviews until I get one or more good offers. Just recently I got 3 really good offers in the span of two weeks and took the time to chose the one I really wanted to accept. I told each company I was interviewing at other places too and wanted some time to think.
If you're doing it on your own the key is to apply to several places and communicate a lot with each company's internal recruiters. When you start interviewing ask what the whole process is and what the usual timeline is for each step. After each step send a brief thank you message. If they are slower getting back to you on the next step than you expected send a quick message to check on when you can expect to hear from them. As you're going through the process at various companies some will progress faster than others. Make sure that the slower ones are aware you're further along in interviews at other companies so they can catch up. When faster companies propose dates for the next step choose something in the longer end of the range to slow things down. Once you have your first offer inform the other companies you're interested in that you have an offer and they need to start wrapping things up one way or the other.
Most companies can be flexible about their timelines. Even places that are known for long application processes can be significantly sped up if they know you're on a deadline.
This is not at all to find out who you are, but I haven'f seen such salaries as the norm for most developers so I am always curious to know more as to what field and position attracts this kind of compensation out of the gate.
I see it as the opposite, they were willing to pay you less than what they see as your potential value. For their own benefit.
Is it okay to lie to someone that's taking advantage of you?
Is it okay to lie if you and your family benefits with no real harm done to the second party?
Is it okay to lie in response to a lie?
I guess the real self-judgement has to be based on whether one knew the nefarious behavior of the other party beforehand or not. It's a tough one.
But I understand your point, I often wonder if law enforcement officers ever feel guilt over the fact they can, and do, outright lie as part of their jobs.
If you're feeling guilty about something, tell it to your dog.
http://h1bwage.com/
One caveat to that win though - your employer's expectations of the value you'll bring also went up from $170k to $260k. You've gone from 'very good developer' to 'in-demand amazing developer'. You get all the stress that comes with that.
Why not just ask for 260K? To lie in order to get it may seem like the only way to guarantee a realization of what you are worth, but this fosters a business climate that you ultimately may not want to live in. Companies may feel the need to be more defensive at the negotiating table, put the squeeze on developers in terms of hours or reduced open source contributions, or even to illegally collude in order to force people to stay at their... oh wait that one already happened.
A business climate in which parties are faking information can be a dangerous place. It is in our collective best interest to be honest and to foster an environment in which honesty is expected. Think on that the next time you buy a food product.
Another example that is more general: company leadership feels the need to produce a certain kind of quarterly financial result in order to appear favorable to investors or customers. The company that has the most accolades fakes it the most, leading to a lot of pressure on everyone else to do the same. Someone has to pay for this though, often it is paid in increased risk.
EDIT: removed irrelevant examples.
We are at a serious disadvantage, even though it seems to many outside the industry that we make an incredible amount of money. But our high salaries are actually quite a bargain considering how much value is potentially going to be realized by the founders and investors (across multiple investments and over the long run).
A few days ago I was actually thinking about the challenge for a developer of achieving a salary closer to what one is worth. I was wondering if job searches can be better managed so that offers land at nearly the same time, perhaps through some sort of software-based mechanism that is well-understood and widely accepted.
However, has asking for a 50% raise in the same company ever worked? Can you imagine a scenario where it would work? Maybe I am lacking in imagination.
The reality is that in our current business climate, various morally repugnant actions take place all the time. The examples you listed of dishonest climates, you keep getting a raw deal. Do you just take the short end of the stick to maintain the moral high ground?
No one in business, any business, at any level pays for goods and services what they think they are worth. They pay the minimum that they think will be accepted.
The idea that someone on the opposite side of the negotiating table has your best interests at heart and is going to be as generous as they can with you is naive. Occasionally it happens, but it's not probable and not something anyone should rely on. And this holds whether we're discussing purchaser-supplier, founder-vc, employee-employer, or customer-seller.
This is not to say that the people opposite the table are bad people, and once the terms of the relationship have been agreed upon, they will often go above and beyond to help you out. But everyone will negotiate in their self-interest first.
During my first internship at a a start up that was about to IPO, I was so grateful, I would have worked for free. After a semester and the IPO, I was offered a different internship that I thought would provide more learning value. I told my mentor/manager, and he pulled me aside.
He said, "name a pay hike, and we can easily get it for you." I remember being so surprised because I was replaceable, and my work could easily be shifted to a new intern. Also, I remember the chance they took at taking an unproven undergrad on a rocketship of a startup. He told me that I didn't understand how businesses work yet, and I would soon learn that you are worth the value you provide.
Since then, I focus on knowing that at any company, I will provide incremental value, not just the status quo, but against competitive peers. And if a company offers more than I believe I can provide at a given time, I'll work my ass off to get to point where I can provide commiserate value.
Any company that will give you a higher title/pay based that's not based on skill is not doing job leveling properly. Going from (for example) "Jr. SDE" to "Sr. SDE" just because of a counter-offer/negotiation? No way. I'd be worried who else at the company is employed at a higher level than they should be...
Or what if they had told you "Congratulations! you are moving on to bigger and better things. Have your desk cleaned out within half an hour"?
Sometimes bluffs work, sometimes they don't.
I think this current company is not great if they were willing to underpay and then reverse course quickly only when they thought there was a counteroffer. I think your job is likely to not go well and you should start looking AGAIN immediately at a higher quality company. While you still have employment.