Ask HN: How much recurring income do you generate and from what?

293 points by djshah ↗ HN
The same thread was started 2 years ago with a follow up last year. I think it's time for a refresh and updates from those who answered before. Previous threads: Last Year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4467603 Year Before - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2567487

343 comments

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I have a small iPhone app that generates around 200 a month. Nothing spectacular but not bad for a bit extra.
I always thought that building something like this might generate an initial income (and potentially a profit) but that consistent, longer-term revenue was much harder to come by. Any chance you'd expand on what your app does and what the revenue generation/ongoing promotion model is?
You can do reasonably well (if you're just after pocket change) with a decent utility app - let's be honest, most of them have shockingly bad UX, and reap ad revenue.
It's a utility app. I think that if you build something people will get some use out of, and make it look (and be) easy to use then you should get a fairly recurring revenue. A lot of the smaller apps look bad, so i just tried to make mine look a little more like something i'd want to use.

I think it depends on store positioning too, once i got into the top charts for my section then I got more downloads (or maybe i got there because i got more downloads, i guess it's a rolling ball effect).

I plan to do some more utility ones soon, and i'm working on a bit of a bigger one (health based) now that will hopefully provide more value to people.

I'd be happy to tell you more about it and what i did if you want. My email is in my profile.

I have a little Android app that makes about $60/mo. It's my burrito money for the month :)
My German job board https://englishjobs.de started generating around $50 per month on some link referrals, but the site is still on dippers.
Do you scrape the jobs from somewhere else or from where do you get the content from?
I am a Google apps reseller and have a few customers. My customers get the accounts for a small discount then what they would direct and I make a small margin. Right now the total on that is about 1200 a year. I pretty much use that as a "toy slush fund" and use it to buy geeky stuff without getting in trouble from the boss ( wife ).
Do you provide just customer service? Or do you also manage the accounts for them as well?
Would you mind telling us how you got into such an area?
Would love to hear the detail about Google Apps reseller? What is it exactly?
I wrote and self-publish a book named Mastering Modern Payments[1], with a fairly recent second edition. It's making about $2k/mo.

I am also selling paid support and add ons for my open-source Rails engine for Stripe named Payola[2][3], which very recently gained support for subscriptions[4].

[1]: https://www.masteringmodernpayments.com

[2]: https://www.payola.io

[3]: https://www.payola.io/pro

[4]: https://www.petekeen.net/payola-subscriptions

Edit: You can read a free preview here: https://www.masteringmodernpayments.com/read

> https://www.masteringmodernpayments.com >

Very cool. if you're helping people earn money, they will pay :)

Is the high-end team options selling? Also what it the split between the mid-price and the lowest price?

I'm trying to figure out the pricing for my book[1] so it (a) is dont-need-to-think-about-it-cheap, (b) doesn't devalue the book (if too cheap readers won't trust), and (c) interacts nicely with Amazon who are undercutting me on price. Any tips?

[1] http://minireference.com/static/newsite/ cf. http://minireference.com

The team option sells occasionally, mostly to agencies.

Low and mid tiers have sold approximately the same number of copies, which means the mid tier brings in about double the revenue.

Not sure what to tell you about Amazon. I don't sell there because I like taking 97% of my revenue instead of 30%, but for a math textbook maybe it would make sense. Do you market to math tutors? It seems like if you could get tutors on board they would be able to easily sell to their students.

I've been in contact with some tutors (and tutoring agencies), but the book is kind of competition to them. For $29 students get a lot of content, and will need less tutoring.

I'm thinking a good partner would be university departments who offer tutoring for free---the incentives would be there since they'll need to hire less tutors.

@zrail and just for anyone out there who wants a product idea. I really would pay for a book on the same subject but for ppl outside US and the first world.

To setup and collect payments world wide outside those countries is a pain in the ass. Any book on that (or good services) deserve money & success.

One option is Boku[1]. Several companies I know use it to great success for non-credit-card, non-paypal payments.

[1]: http://www.boku.com

How does one use it, though? Doesn't seem to have any signup page, unless I missed something (checked just now). Or is it only by invitation or something?
I think you have to talk to a sales rep.
Can't reply to you below (no reply link), so saying thanks here (about the sales rep bit).
@raphar: Great idea. Me too. I've been checking various online payment options for a while now, but all of them seem to have some issue or the other. I don't mean Stripe, since that is only available in the US and a few other countries, and I'm not in those.
Stocks, depends on the month: 1000-2000 on average. Link: http://mays.co/i-made-6k-this-month-doing-nothing/

Webhosting: $20 (Mainly just pays for my VPS)

Launching soon: http://gymbrew.com (Subscription box service for protein goodies)

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By stocks, do you mean dividends? Or do you cash out the gains you make periodically? Otherwise, I don't think I would count that as 'income'.
Dividends and gains. I do not cash out and "realize" the gains, but my net worth increases. Net worth increases I count as income as it decreases my time to reach financial independence.
This blog post is highly misleading. The only reason you made $6k in a month with index funds is A) because you would have already had about $60k in the account and B) because indexes were recovering from a large drop just before that one-month time horizon. To give more perspective, the 3-month return for your most heavily weighted fund is about half of the current 1-month average. To make $6k/month assuming average annual growth (not something you can always count on, but let's keep it simple), you'd need closer to $900k already in your account.

Should people invest? Yes. Should they invest in index funds instead of day-trading? Almost certainly. Should they expect $6k/month returns from whatever change they scraped from underneath the sofa cushions? No.

I have more then 60k in the account. Yes, results are atypical. I said that in the blog post. I also said assume 8% a year returns on average.

Edit: Btw, everything you said is true. And great advice for those trying to follow a similar path. I rarely even check my on my stocks, it's mostly set it and forget it. I simplified this for family members and friends who I think would benefit greatly from investing.

Hey Steven,

I saw what your investing allocation was from your blog post 60% VTSAX, 25% VTIAX, 10% VGSIX, & 5% VBTLX

Have you heard of betterment? https://www.betterment.com/portfolio/

What do you think of betterments portfolio strategy and allocation? For younger people they recommend 90% stocks 10% bonds.

I think betterment is AWESOME, and well worth their nominal fee. As a matter of fact I am switching all of my non-tax advantaged investments over to them very soon. Mr money mustache on betterment: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2014/11/04/why-i-put-my-last-...

I like lazy allocations, take a look at this: http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Lazy_portfolios

Also, keep in mind that any investment you do it is WAY better to do it in tax advantaged accounts (401k, roth ira, ira, etc). Typical advice goes like this

Max out 401k up to company match Max out roth ira (currently 5500 a year) Max out 401k fully (up to 22,500 a year) Invest in non tax advantaged accounts

When you contribute to 401k it lowers your taxable income, so if you make 80k, and contribute 20k to your 401k, you only pay taxes on 60k which can be great for tax savings.

Why Betterment over Future Advisor? I really like the latter, but haven't really looked into Betterment all that much.
They cost more. They charge .5 percent on assets vs betterment charging .15 if you have over 100k, and .35% if you dont.

They both do the same thing, tax loss harvesting and automatic rebalancing. That fee difference over 30 years assuming an investment of 20k per year and an 8% return could cost you like 400k - which is not chump change.

How do these compare to https://www.wisebanyan.com?

It seems to be roughly the same idea, but without any fees at all (I haven't used any of them, so I'm likely missing something)

Probably also good to point newbies at the chart from late 2008.
Even accounting for 2008 and the great depression, historically the stock market returns 8% a year. It's a solid vehicle for wealth growth.
I agree. I just think newbies should understand the market doesn't only move up.
But the other tips on this blog post are right.
Yes there are some good one about saving money, but don't have kids? Don't get sick? Used clothes only? There has to be some balance, life isn't only about saving money.
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While I agree with an indexing approach and follow one myself, classifying this in the same vein as income is a bit misleading, as another reply pointed out.

While income from side jobs can be irregular, returns from investments mainly concentrated in equities can be more volatile.

Volatility in the S&P 500 (as measured by the VIX) has been relatively quite low for the past few years, other than a few marked events. (US debt ceiling crisis, etc.) A chart of the S&P 500 shows more-or-less an upward trend over the past five years; certainly since the beginning of 2013 there have hardly been any wild swings.

This can lull investors into a false sense of security about the distributions of returns; just because returns have been steady (i.e. low volatility) over the past few years does not mean things will remain this way.

I don't dispute the long-term average yearly return of ~8%. What I am saying is that, as with many other things, averages don't tell the true story. One year, you could be down 30-40% in equities and another you could be up 30%. Getting a constant 8% return every year is unlikely.

For some long-term investors, they aren't concerned about the volatility and this is a perfectly rational thing. However, there are some people who cannot bear the volatility of such investments and will be in constant worry. Such individuals would likely have to apportion a higher percentage of their to less risky assets and perhaps miss out on some overall return.

I heard of many people freaking out just because the mini-correction that happened in mid-October. These sorts of people aren't cut out to be investing like this as they will panic and sell during downswings.

100-200 a month from having an android app.

The free version has had 483k downloads, makes ~5$/day advertising (admob/adsense). ~250 downloads a day, been on the market since 2011.

The paid version ($2.99) has had <2000 downloads over the ~3 years it's been on the market.

Unfortunately I've no time to keep it updated so last update was in 2012.

I've made $1500 in the past month on my Android apps. I also did some additional Android stuff with a partner, so that would be another couple of hundred dollars on top of that.

All from ads. Mostly Admob, but also Millennial Media and Inmobi.

thank for sharing. it's surprising that nearly half a million downloads translates into such a small amount of revenue. is this the nature of in-app advertising, or is this because the number of active users of the app is much smaller than the number of downloads?
my app's a bit special - it's purely SDL / opengl / C with a tiny java wrapper just to get going. TBH, there's some key technical problems with it with respect to onboarding, and because of those problems and likely technical problems there's <20k installed users.

It's DJPad, feel free to try it - the library functionality is embarrassingly bad but the audio engine and UI's half decent.

Probably the biggest feature is that it's lower latency than the competitors written in java. It doesn't hold a candle to any of the DJ apps on iOS whatsoever though.

I started a new job/career 2 years ago, and now I'm a dad - suffice to say my free time is gone. If I had stuck with this project I would have rebuilt the library and built a dedicated onboarding walkthrough.

About 10K per annum from www.rssweather.com. Been a reasonably consistent source of money for ten years.
Just with the ads? What are your revenue channels?
Yes just with ads.
I currently make about 1000EUR/month consistently from an Android app I sell for 9.99EUR.

It's a tasks app that syncs with OmniFocus. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.quantus.app...

That is quite remarkable, do you think the OmniFocus integration is the killer feature that gets most people to pay?
I think so, the app is purely focussed on OmniFocus integration and reuses their backend.

Most of my customers pay for the app because they are heavy OmniFocus users on the Mac and recently switched to Android.

Do people _buy_ Android apps?
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I generate about $1750 USD per month producing training videos for Pluralsight, most recently on how developers can make sense of agile. http://www.pluralsight.com/author/jeremy-jarrell

The $1750 month is the current rolling average. It can be much more when a new course is launching.

From only two courses? That seems pretty darn good!
Thanks! Believe it or not about 70% of the revenue comes from the Creating Effective User Stories course. I have another course in the same vein, Agile in the Real World, coming out in a few weeks that I hope will do as well.

The trick seems to be to find a niche that people are interested in and that will continue to be interested in for some time, since the course revenue will decay over time.

For me, agile seemed to be that niche...groovy, not so much :)

It also helps if you already have a brand going in. For example, if you're already well known from books or a popular blog you'll have name recognition and some of your audience will follow you. This wasn't the case with me, but I've seen it happen several times with more well known authors.

Same question as to the other Pluralsight creator. What tools do you use to create these courses?
Hey Nico!

Regarding hardware I record with a Blue Snowball cardoid mic and a pop filter. The entire setup including mic, stand, and pop filter cost me a little over $100 on Amazon. Pluralsight also reimbursed the majority of that after my first course was delivered. (http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Microphones-Snowball-Microphone-A...)

Regarding software I record and edit with Camtasia for Mac ($99) on a MacBook Pro. I've used Camtasia for my last three courses and while the Windows version is quite nice the Mac version is...painful. I'll be starting a new course in January and plan to record with Screenflow (http://www.telestream.net/screenflow/overview.htm) and edit with Adobe Premiere. Screenflow and Premiere are more expensive options and, as painful as Camtasia was to work with, it was more than adequate to get me started.

I also use a bevy of other free tools to support the production process. For example, I do all scripting, outlining, etc in Google Docs and track the entire production process in Trello. Each course is a fairly large undertaking (the course I'm wrapping up now will have about 135 hours into it by the time its done) so being able to keep track of where you are and how you're pacing for the deadline is critical.

I also have a full time job, am married, and have two young kids (a 3 year old and a 3 month old) so I have to make time for production at odd hours of the week. This makes trello all the even more important for helping me manage the process ;)

Let me know if I can give you any more information.

I'm curious if there is a reason you don't use Quicktime's built in screen-record functionality?
Oddly enough I didn't realize that Quicktime could even do that until about a week ago until I'd already made the choice to switch to screenflow.

I haven't tried it yet but it did occur to me as an option, perhaps I should revisit it.

Interesting, how is pricing decided?
Good question, Pluralsight uses a subscription model so the courses aren't actually priced individually. For example, at the lowest tier a subscriber can pay $29/month and get access to the entire catalog (which is several thousand courses).

When an author produces a course Pluralsight actually acquires the copyright and therefore exclusive distribution rights for the course as part of the transaction. In return authors negotiate a royalty rate for each course which is a function of how much that course was watched per month versus total viewing of the catalog by paid subscribers. These royalties are where your revenue as an author actually comes from.

If you distribute your course through a subscription company like Pluralsight this is pretty much the standard model across the industry. As a matter of fact, it's actually pretty similar to how artist royalties work in the music industry.

Thank you for the detailed answer. Handling copyrights and exclusiveness sounds bad to me... Did you try first to sell your videos independently?
I didn't try to sell them myself, but I did consider it...HEAVILY.

However, fpr me there were a lot of big wins for going with a publisher like Pluralsight. For one thing, they take a lot of things that are not really related to video production off of the table so you can focus on content. For example, - distribution (i.e, an LMS platform with video hosting that actually works across the globe) - payment processing, especially if you want to do subscriptions since that entails a whole other level of PCI compliance - dealing with video piracy, which can be a bigger problem than you'd ever imagine

Now, I'm actually a software engineer by trade so I could eventually build all of this infrastructure myself if I really had to. But once I realized that I'm in the business of producing content and not creating an LMS that path made much less sense to me than it did at first. Basically I just asked myself 'what would be my differentiator?'. Was it doing video hosting? No. Doing PCI-compliant payment processing? Nope. But, making sense of all of the mud around agile techniques in a way that normal developers could actually use start using them day to day was. So, why not focus on that an outsource the rest.

On top of all of that though the biggest win with going with an established publisher is being able to tap an already existing audience. As I mentioned previously I didn't have an established brand going in so any attempt to launch videos myself would have likely launched to the sound of crickets. Launching on Pluralsight immediately gave me exposure to a large audience who were already paying for this type of content. I'm not sure if Pluralsight makes their subscriber numbers public but, as an example, their twitter account has over 200K followers. Now while not all of those followers are paying subscribers you can assume that those who aren't are at least prospects since they've expressed an interest in hearing about which videos are being released. Getting immediate access to that audience, as well as a marketing channel to reach them, can be huge for getting you started...especially when you don't already have a brand of your own.

Does that mean that I'll never release a video under my own brand? Probably not. There are a lots of LMS as a service providers now on the market that make it much simpler to launch my own video distribution platform than it would have been previously. In addition, one of the biggest drawbacks of using a third party publisher is that you lose visibility into the entire sales funnel. For example, I can track people through my funnel through twitter, to a post on my blog, to a CTA at the bottom of that post that directs people to a related video available on Pluralsight, but I don't have visibility into whether or not they actually convert...which is the most important part. Distributing under your own brand gives me visibility into the entire funnel which would help give me the ability to really grow the business. But, before that's a viable option, I need to have a more established brand than I do now. Otherwise...I would simply launch to crickets :)

Just a note, I got a lot of great questions about how producing training videos works.

If you have any questions later, or are curious about things you don't want to ask in public, don't hesitate to hit me up directly either on twitter at @jeremyjarrell or by email jeremy AT jeremyjarrell DOT com. I'm happy to answer anything.

I also have a contact page on my site that I monitor: http://www.jeremyjarrell.com/contact/

i make about $2k per year with my location aware time tracker app. iOs only. I spent about 100 hours to write it, spend about 40 hours per year on updates and support emails.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/onsite-time-tracker/id470803...

how many total downloads do you have if I may ask?
I offered it for free for a while and it got picked up on app advice... so when that happened I got 10k downloads in one day.

but paid downloads... about 100 per month.

~150USD / month from http://thespatials.com/ with a jump to 1000 USD in October after we announced our successful Greenlight. Launching in Steam in early 2015 and expect to shake things up.
I didn't answer last year, but last year would have been $0/mo. Today, it's $800/mo from two subcontractors I have on a project I run for a client. They each only put a few hours in a week, so I don't really have a lot of time spent on management.
Real Estate - Thanks to the financial crisis, I've been able to pick up some cheap real estate that generates cash flow. Currently, I'm making about $50k/year.
I've always wondered, when you try to vulture on cheap property during a crisis, are you able to secure financing at all or do you have to buy all-cash?
I'm not an American, so financing is a little more difficult but if you are willing to put down 25%, it's doable. With 50% down, almost anyone will give you financing. This is institutional financing...there's always private money with higher interest rates...they are much more flexible with the terms.

Cash is king. You can get better deals if you have all-cash and can close quickly.

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I make a nice chunk of money every two weeks working full time at a steady Rails job. I'm sure that's not what you meant but to be fair your question is very ambiguous.
It's not really ambiguous at all. Between the general entrepreneurial nature of this site, the phrasing of the question, and certainly the backlinks, OP clearly means passive income streams.
I think he is absolutely right in that the question is ambiguous. The linked questions are phrased exactly the same and don't mention passive income. It is not because everybody, myself included, interpreted that passive income is meant without it being mentioned that the question is not ambiguous. It is just our interpretation due to what we expect to see on this site.
He clearly meant that and I knew it; just didn't actually mention that anywhere. I was literally answering his question. Can't help it, I'm a smart ass.
If you're sure it's not what he meant, it's not an ambiguous question.
Those are not mutually exclusive things. You can have an ambiguous question but be sure of the intent because of the context.
Crappy t-shirt designs. I have a bunch of random shirt designs (I am no designer, just made some mediocre SVGs with funny ideas I had in Inkscape), and sell them on the German spreadshirt marketplace, makes about 20 Euros/month.

Most of them trivially translate to the English-speaking market, I should really do that. Does anyone have a hint where the best place to sell 'low-end' t-shirt designs in the US is?

I think that you can start on threadless.com
I believe threadless designs are much more refined that what I have produced.
Don't know if they are the best, but I used zazzle.com and redbubble.com. One argument for zazzle is, that you create a product once and it is available in all countries where zazzle is present, e. g. UK, Germany, Spain etc.
On average, $400/month from https://the.wubmachine.com, an online music remixing app. Split pretty much evenly between Google AdSense and Android/iOS In-App Purchases for the Android/iOS native clients.
That's pretty neat. Although it took me a while to think of a good song to use. If you have insights on "popular tracks" or "recently used tracks", how about a quickstart link on the wubmachine? That would be handy.
I might be able to do that for popular tracks fetched from SoundCloud, but I take special care not to keep any of the data people upload to the site due to copyright worries.
$800/month with an online proposal software app: http://nusii.com We are open for 2 months now.
That's super awesome looking. I signed up just to use the interface.