HN Explorer

Asm/C/Python/Lisp etc... coder looking for something new.

3 points by alnayyir ↗ HN
I need to have an at-home project now that I'm working on Python/Django at work. I'd like to learn something new, so I was thinking of checking out Java.

What's the most well respected web framework for deploying Java web apps? The only reason I'm not checking out ruby on rails is because of how similar the ORM and other parts are to Django.

Alternatively, does anyone think I should take a look at seaside/smalltalk? Can anyone explain why I should?

Haskell is something I'll consider if anyone can make a good argument for it. I'd need a web framework and database access library to go along with it though.

I'd consider factor/forth if I wasn't so accustomed to the stack paradigm via x86/asm. I'd be willing to hear any counter-arguments to this as well.

I'd be interested to hear of any (good) Lisp/Scheme web frameworks as well because when I was learning Lisp and Scheme I wasn't aware of any.

16 comments

[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 47.5 ms ] thread
spooneybarger
If you are interested in staying in the web dev area then either seaside w/ smalltalk, weblocks w/ lisp ( seaside for lisp, or HappStack w/ haskell would be rewarding as they are very different from the django/rails way of things.

Django, Rails, Catalyst etc are the end result of a long line in how to do web dev. Seaside/Weblocks/Happstack all break that mold and do something different. The last year of working with Seaside has made me question everything that I knew about web dev after doing it for 14 years. Even if you don't end up using any of the 3, it will have been worth your time.

A bit more, Seaside and Weblocks both offer something similar, given that, I think you should look into trying out Seaside on GLASS which would be a differentiator from Weblocks, although if you are really into Lisp ( I am ) that is a big point in its favor.

In general, I would break it down to:

Seaside or Weblocks on one side and Happstack on the other. If you want to learn, you can't go wrong with any of them.

alnayyir
I'm only interested in web app development because I want to work on a side business idea. I've done enough non-practical experimentation over the years, time to start implementing.

Difficult to monetize something that isn't a web app or otherwise requires web access these days.

The shared state model in smalltalk/seaside interests me because sharing state in Django is a huge pain sometimes.

spooneybarger
If you are doing a CRUD style app, you aren't going to get as much from Seaside. If you shared state- required etc. Seaside/Weblocks will be a dream, you'll be amazed how quickly you get things done that took so long in the Djanjo/Catalyst/Rails style.

I love how Seaside has changed they way I think about web dev.

alnayyir
What are some web apps that don't have a CRUD model to them?
spooneybarger
Well by CRUD, I really meant and should have said, simple CRUD. blogs, twitter etc where you basic interaction is short.

Things that can not simple CRUD:

multi step e-commerce order application, games, anything that relies on your previous action to decide what happens now.

a blog doesnt care what I did before, neither does twitter or myspace or facebook. Do this thing, store result. 1 page to result usually. Simple CRUD.

If you do simple CRUD, you probably won't get a ton of value from Seaside/Weblocks. If you are doing applications where stateful is required/desired and RESTful is hard, both will be wonderful to work with.

alnayyir
Why is RESTful desirable?
spooneybarger
There is a mass of blog posts etc about why RESTful can be a good thing ( even if many get REST somewhat wrong ), I don't think anything is going to be gained by my trying to fit all that information into this small textarea.
alnayyir
Was hoping context would narrow things down. Sorry. :\",
russell
I make my living doing Java web development, but I wouldnt use it for any personal project. Struts, Hibernate, String are all too heavyweight for a personal project with too much of a learning curve. I believe that productivity is much lower than with Django, Pylons, or Rails.
alnayyir
Noted. It's not merely a personal project, going to try to ply it into a side business/income if possible.
ilkhd
PHP. I am serous.
alnayyir
You got downvoted, I'm upvoting you. I'll seriously consider it despite the prejudice against it.

The CDBaby story had me thinking about it.