Ask HN: How do you find freelance/contract gigs?
I am a full-time software developer looking for extra income. I spend a lot of time "cold-emailing" local businesses and messaging other companies who are actually looking for applicants. The result is always the same: "we are not looking for freelancers/contractors right now".
I have also used freelance sites before (unsuccessfully) like ODesk and Elance, and I have really hated how they work. It seems like all freelancing on those sites is a price war. I am confident about my skill-set and I'm not worried about not being able to deliver, but the way bidding is organized on these sites feels really demeaning.
So ultimately, my question for HN is how do YOU find or establish new freelance/sub-contracting/contracting gigs? Should I just deal with my annoyance at ODesk/Elance or are there methods I'm missing? Thanks!
112 comments
[ 4.5 ms ] story [ 165 ms ] threadAlso, don't expect much from cold emails. It's way too impersonal. Telephone calls are only slightly better, but in-person events are by far the best. Your goal should be to MEET as many people in-person as possible.
As a hiring manager, I currently have an availability to hire a freelancer. I just need someone responsible, mature and professional who's willing to roll up their sleeves and go from "receiving requirements" to shipping and thoroughly testing.
Thanks, Andreas
That's what I get for posting while distracted. Thank you for the correction.
I find events and conferences to not be much use, unless they are very specific to your industry.
-A load builder, temporary placement scheme creator, and shipping router for a large cattle feedlot in the Midwest (my brother got me this job, while I was working on it a building maintenance man came by, asked about it, told his wife who did data entry for a crop harvesting company and I got the gig below)...
-A ticket management and payment system for a crop harvesting company. The original application was in Access, and was slow and clumsy and full of bugs leading to bad payments at times. I re-wrote it using SQL, python and web interface, and host it for the company. Now they can use the application when they are out doing remote harvests (they harvest grains etc. in 4 or 5 states). The owner was pleased and recommended me to a milk producing co-op (below).
-Milk production and payment calculation for a 15 dairy co-op. Working on this right now weekends and evenings (I have a full time job). This is a complicated application that takes a number of factors (amount of Butterfat, government fuel prices, amount of bacteria etc.) and calculates payment due to individual dairies. The original app is in Lotus Approach and it's been a struggle getting everything out and finding how it all fits together (the person who made the original application passed away). In fact, I should be working on it right now instead of playing on HN. But Lotus Approach is no fun. At all.
Not sexy.. but good side work that fills a real need. There are lots of companies that could use an update, or have very specific needs they can't fill with off the shelf software. And they generally don't have a clue about how to fill that need.
One other benifit of working for the end user is that in many cases you end up being paid for maintaining (for example being a server admin for a web app) the application you wrote for them. This can be a nice source of recurring income.
I don't use it much anymore since I found a full-time job, but it kept me in great shape for almost four years.
Below is an affiliate link if you're OK with it.
https://www.peopleperhour.com/site/register?rfrd=145291.1
I never had to do cold-emails.
I live in the Bay Area though where there are a lot of companies looking for somebody to build their Android app.
What's great with the network though is that I never had to negotiate rates since there's already some trust established.
Those who found me through LinkedIn though seem to negotiate a lot with rates which can be a pain.
I probably would have had trouble finding projects if I decided to do contracting when I moved to the Bay Area right away.
For my first few projects, my rate was really low. It was meant to help friends out and get to work on high-profile projects. Some of the companies I have worked for ended up doing YC or raising seed/VC money.
(This is not to say it's not a question worth asking again! I look forward to today's responses.)
50-60% of my revenue is sub-contracting. I have a few firms that often take on projects that they are not suited for or do not want to increase staff to cover and they often sub out all or parts of the project to me. These relationships were built through networking with other developers who worked for these companies - never the bosses per se. Meet other devs and when the company needs help, they remember and recommend. In my experience this kind of introduction is about 5x as fertile as a cold intro.
Roughly 30% of my revenue is from direct relationships between myself and another company. These tend to merit a higher rate but also increased risk.
Very few of my direct relationships start from cold calling/intro (not sure if any ever did actually); most came via word of mouth recommendations of other people. Networking at the right kinds of events can also increase your profile and help you meet the right people.
ProTip: Networking at networking events is a terrible idea.
Lacking a sales force the best pseudo sales force you can create are acquaintances who understand your skill set and respect you as a person. They don't need to see your work, they don't need to have hired you before - to drop your name to someone who asks. They need to know your name, what you do and have a generally good feeling about you. If you pay them back for this, even with a simple thank you or lunch - they will continue to be an advocate for you.
Another tip which probably falls into the anecdotal evidence category - get off of ODesk and ELance. You are right about the price war. Your name and value to people also gets damaged because you seem to be just another guy among thousands who need to find work that way - it is a 'dime a dozen' mentality and they will always see you as that.
Do you have any advice on how to leverage these experiences more?
Remember, most people in jobs will be threatened by a strong and assertive leader - they want someone they can control and extract value from, not someone who might take their job. Understand and embrace that fear and position yourself to handle it.
User group meetings are the flip side of that, while some people are there to meet others, most come to learn something and their motives pivots around that point.
People who are looking for jobs or work, are rarely you ally in finding more work for yourself.
If you can be a regular subcontractor for a larger agency, that IMO is generally the ideal situation.
Just wondering from someone who's never been to any type of event, so I've never had to really do any networking
http://qbix.com/nicestuff
From that point I started negotiations out around 125 or more depending on the client. The whole thing gave me confidence that people would pay more for my skills. Funny, I probably only made 4K that weekend all told, but in a sense I made hundreds of thousands because it taught me to charge more. Only a couple times since then has someone dismissed the idea of hiring me because of rates.
Honest truth: I have been in this range for too long, I worried back when the economy tanked in 2008 that I would have to cut rates but it never really happened. Time to start raising them so new engagements I am now quoting a higher rate.
I am a creator at heart, I get joy out of making things. When you try to grow a company you are trading technology problems and challenges for a different set of problems that revolve around financing, sales, HR issues, people management etc and somewhere in all of that, the part I love - writing code and solving hard problems, gets lost.
There is also this period of change you have to go through monetarily. Right now I make really good money doing something I enjoy. To bring on others I end up for some time making less money for the hope that in the future I make more money. Truth be told, it may take quite some time to get back to my current income in this model and during that period there is risk. All things considered I am too happy to try and change it.
That said, I am considering different avenues. Consulting ebbs and flows, there are good projects and bad projects and the fact I can't make something I truly love, something I think is masterful, is weighing on me. Right now I am doing some work in commercial real estate and what I am building makes my client happy but it does not realize my vision for it. The truth is it never will because my vision is my own unique manifestation of what I believe it could and should be - and that vision does not align with my clients business goals (or their budget!).
Finding the right startup to build, something I am deeply passionate about, something I felt I was put on this earth to do is my next big career step. The problem is I have lots of ideas that may even make for good businesses but that spark of passion has not yet been there on any of those ideas.
So my question is (actually two) how do you stay consistently busy and up to date on hours? Also have you managed to save (or are there lean periods) and if so, would you consider hiring out/subcontracting? I've considered becoming a client on oDesk/eLance and taking more of a team lead role. I guess that's three questions.
I dont think there is a secret recipe for staying busy other than the very basic truths. Meet and make friends with other people in your space and be a good person. Be on time, work hard, be honest and fair, respect people. Even if you fail people will give you lots of latitude if they personally like you.
I sub out work on occasion and have tried things at a few different levels. I have hired people off ELance and ODesk (which almost never works out); hired people I was introduced to and hired people off of CraigsList. In all of that certain truths remain, people who cost more money usually do that because they are better. Mostly at this point I hire other people like myself that have been at this for a long time and bill about what I do. I worry less about their work. In fact where possible I just bring them into a deal and let them work directly with my client. That way I am not in the middle of anything, I dont deal with money etc. Since I am not really trying to be a big firm making money off of people, skimming 15-20% off the top is just not worth the risks that come with it. Everyone is happier this way. I sometimes get asked if I worry that the person I bring in may steal my business and while the thought does cross my mind it is not the right thing to worry about. If that happens then I have to question what I was doing wrong that the client felt better using the other person more than me.
If you convert salaries to hourly rates, the greater portion of us (outside SF/NY) make between $35-$70/hour.
How did you get to such exorbitant rates? Is your work very uncommon, or require an extremely refined skill set? Or is just "I charge whatever I want because I know they'll pay it"?
$150 an hour can be quite reasonable, given the right situation. For starters, if a regular employee makes $50 an hour, they are really costing the company more like $100 an hour when you add in benefits, taxes, insurance, and other perk costs. So $150 for a subject matter expert on short notice is not a stretch at all.
But more importantly, do a cost/benefits analysis. Let's say there's an important project coming up, and you lack the internal expertise. Let's say it could be done in 3 months by an expert you know. Now, 3 months of $150/hr is $72k, which seems like a lot, but if your alternatives are 1) spending 6 weeks trying to hire an expert and hoping they agree to a low salary, 2) spending a month training internal people to do it, and then having them do a novice job at it, or 3) missing a crucial business opportunity that could easily run in the millions... you get the idea.
Anyway, the moral of the story is, learn enough tech to get the job done, learn the business realities of your industry, and then charge what you are worth to the company.
Also, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this yet, post in the HN Freelance thread on the first of every month. I've hired a number of freelancers from there.
Front of my 2015 card:
http://ceondo.com/media/files/img/2015-small.jpg
I use Moo to print the cards, quality is great and service excellent. This is a referral link, just remove the /share... if you do not want to follow the referral.
http://www.moo.com/share/28nw8g
Let say you created a nice messaging system for an App, you then explain that this expertise can be reused from messaging between people on a human disaster zone but also when people are meeting to run a "catch the flag" game in your area.
Here is for example my link at the back I sent this year: http://ceondo.com/2015
Nothing crazy, the real thing is really, you sent a letter, a real one, you tried to wrote a small note reminding the contact about a good time together or wishing success in the area he is working (be just specific enough so he knows it is not a "I write the same on all the cards" note) and simply try to be nice.
Some headhunters don't mind dealing with freelancers either. Currently I'm freelancing through Computer Futures.
Lately I'm starting to think that both of these points apply to freelancing/contracting whether it's online or through some other channel.
Also, build a decent portfolio of your work.
http://letsworkshop.com/
http://freelancefunnel.com/
https://freelancedevleads.com/
http://www.flexjobs.com/
Actionable tip #1: whenever you do work for someone, be sure to get a testimonial. If possible, do a full case-study on your engagement. Feature these prominently on your site. Then, just keep in touch with everyone you do business with. DON'T directly ask for referrals. Just ask how their business is doing. Make it about them. They'll remember this and like you for it, and you'll be at the front of their mind when the topic of consultants comes up.
Actionable tip #2: read this blog post by Patrick McKenzie, the man's advice is pure gold. http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-pro...
As a side note: anyone doing freelancing that is struggling with the tax part of it, would love to get your feedback on http://painless1099.com - a smart bank account for your 1099 income that does automatic withholding and helps make your tax situation more like that of a W2's. Product is deep in development by some awesome folks (I'm advising) and they still need more sophisticated eyes on it to get the alpha right.
Selling software development services as an individual is extremely risky, especially if you are selling services to buyers who are not tech-savvy. It takes patience and energy, and software developers have a finite amount of these resources.
Serious consulting generally requires daytime availability. It's a slippery slope from "side hustle" to "leading a double life." If extra income is what you're after, is it an option to change jobs for better pay, or to get more income from your day job?
One bit of advice if you stick with this plan: you can make the sideline nature of the contract work a benefit in your clients' eyes if you set your rates at a level where they feel like they're getting a good deal compared to what you'd be charging if you worked full-time as a consultant. You can also mitigate the cost to your performance at your day job if you consult on a different technology than you use at work.
But if your day job is in professional services, I strongly recommend against contracting on the side. If it's all you do, work-for-hire will slowly kill you.
First off:
There really is no good 'job' site for Contracts. There are a lot of 'Work From Home/Work Remotely' sites; but there is not one for contracting exactly.
What I do:
I network through people I know; cold calling can work if you see the company has a problem and you tailor yourself as the fix. But often those are short term gigs unless they love you.
Other than that.
Don't be afraid to post yourself on the monthly who's hiring and who wants to get hired. Making yourself visible will net a few responses that maybe gold.
Lastly, Stackoverflow Careers job has bene helpful.
Really last comment: http://thenubbyadmin.com/2014/01/20/best-list-of-remote-sysa...