Personally I would have liked more concrete examples of the problem he's outlined. For instance, his assertion that it teaches junior programmers bad habits. Like what? I'm not sure that's been my experience, but I'm a seasoned JavaScript developer and understand what's going on under the covers. I really would like to better understand that if I use Angular and expose it to my junior programmers, what problems am I likely to encounter so that I can counter them? That would have made this article much more useful to me. It appears to be just a screed without any concrete examples.
Agreed. It is hard to just accept these viewpoints without backing them up with some examples or data.
The v2 opinion and comparison to SharePoint just sounds mostly like FUD.
The comments about junior devs and masquerading as javascript I just don't buy. Sure someone new to programming might be able to just throw something together and not learn, but someone attempting to learn will still learn a lot using Angular.
Well I can relate to notion. Not to the exact manner. But when I had a small team and we worked on app, about 2.5 years ago. I would say that general premise was in regards of PRs that i have reviewed, is that more junior devs, would over populated logic in templates and in general just do little bit of extra code in places where it should of not existed. That said, I think it is applicable to any junior developer, when documentation is a bit convoluted. I can't say that Angular has the best documentation and has no ramp up time to get on board with it, if anything it has longer ramp up time. Especially if you start from scratch as a team.
Thank you, that example makes sense. You see, as an experienced developer I would never think to intertwine my logic into my templates, so it's hard to envision what a junior developer might do.
You've hit the nail on the head, but I honestly don't know why more senior developers can't see it - unless they don't actually work with juniors on a regular basis? Anyway, due to all the cries about FUD on the topic of juniors specifically, I decided it needs its own writeup - you can find it here if you want more clarification: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8965935
Actually I work pretty closely with my juniors and teach them the right way to do it. That and provide a code base of conventions that shows them the right way to do it. It's really hard for me to understand how you let juniors get to the point of having bad habits. If you see them doing something wrong, let them know, provide them feedback telling them why what they did was wrong and show them how to do it right. It's really not that hard, just part of the job.
Any technology (not just Angular) has the potential to be misused. As a senior developer/architect it's my job to review and mentor my teammates as appropriate. I don't really see this as a problem particular to Angular, it's something you have to watch out for everywhere.
Well thats the goal of PRs : ) But its not one time affair, and takes time and investment from your self. So I like to think that I have done right by devs i worked with, helped them out a lot, gave them freedom and responsibilities. It paid off for those who stuck around.
Bottom line, it depends on so many things and so much time, to bring everyone on same level. And some developers are brought for only like 3 months. For a project that I ve been part of, so devs just did not like the project that they worked on, and cycled right through.
Do agree with you on that. My use of "on point" is probably too strong for this article. Better would be mostly on point. Examples are missing. And does feel more like fud when certain points are discussed.
Clicking the back button after going to this article prevents you from returning to HN, but rather sends you to jskicks' front page and re-opens the article.
Really shitty behavior. Or is this supposed to work better on mobile?
After looking at the linked article and reading the comments, it appears that it doesn't make an actual impact on performance. He is just suggesting the ordering for consistency.
The Sharepoint experience comparison is pretty pointless. The complaint is that he's being consulted to fix things un-qualified people broke. Sounds like, consulting.
I haven't put food on the table with Sharepoint consulting, but "broken installations" can be done via the GUI by employees with admin access right? ... where breaking AngularJS apps would be done by those with access to the code. Very different.
Then what type of consulting doesn't feel like selling your soul when you've achieved a significant level of expertise in an area?
Pretty dramatic, but interesting bits none the less.
21 comments
[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 57.6 ms ] threadThe v2 opinion and comparison to SharePoint just sounds mostly like FUD.
The comments about junior devs and masquerading as javascript I just don't buy. Sure someone new to programming might be able to just throw something together and not learn, but someone attempting to learn will still learn a lot using Angular.
Any technology (not just Angular) has the potential to be misused. As a senior developer/architect it's my job to review and mentor my teammates as appropriate. I don't really see this as a problem particular to Angular, it's something you have to watch out for everywhere.
Bottom line, it depends on so many things and so much time, to bring everyone on same level. And some developers are brought for only like 3 months. For a project that I ve been part of, so devs just did not like the project that they worked on, and cycled right through.
Really shitty behavior. Or is this supposed to work better on mobile?
"In AngularJS, not all HTML attributes are equal; some have no significant effect; others have a profound impact on how your page is rendered."
If it was just about consistency, then it would for part of an Angular style guide that so many companies produce.
I haven't put food on the table with Sharepoint consulting, but "broken installations" can be done via the GUI by employees with admin access right? ... where breaking AngularJS apps would be done by those with access to the code. Very different.
Then what type of consulting doesn't feel like selling your soul when you've achieved a significant level of expertise in an area?
Pretty dramatic, but interesting bits none the less.