HN Explorer

Ask HN: Is IT actually not for me?

10 points by wishiknew ↗ HN
Been looking for a job for many months and I can't find anything. I've got a bachelor's degree in CS but I feel like I didn't learn much at school, honestly. I see the kind of programming going on here on HN and in hot cities/companies (Google, Mozilla, etc.) and I have no clue. If you give me a project idea and time to discover a framework, I can get something out of it (see [redacted] for my 2-day discovery of Angular). But how am I supposed to sell myself as an Ember, Angular and Node specialist, for instance? This is ridiculous.

I have a pretty small network but the people I've worked with know how reliable I try to be. While an intern I've solved many business problems with languages I didn't previously know, such as Excel VBA. None of those people could help me get something although they could have, with a different timing.

My biggest achievement is creating and managing a WordPress site now visited 50k times per month. I used to think it was an excellent asset when seeing what my classmates were up to (playing video games, mostly), but companies are definitely not impressed. And in a sense it's true that I didn't write a lot of code for it. But the code I wrote is rock solid. So yeah, I don't know.

So what should I do? I live in a small country where German and French are spoken. I speak English and French. I have theoretical notions of German and I could speak it in a matter of months if somebody gave me a chance. Since French-speaking companies don't, I doubt German-speaking ones would, though, and so far they haven't. What have we done for companies to be so afraid of us? I grew up in this country, graduated in an excellent high school and in a decent CS school; somebody'd make a pretty damn good deal if they hired me while I'm cheap. But everybody's rejecting me despite my motivation and my clean profile. This is wicked and there's a point at which I will simply stop and go milk cows instead.

14 comments

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a3voices
Maybe you just need to write your resume better, and work on soft skills when talking to recruiters and hiring managers? Maybe secure an internship to collect even more job experience while looking for a better job?

Experience matters more than pay. Do anything to get a software or IT job, and then eventually hop to something better. Howard Stern (the super rich radio guy) used to make barely anything for a very long time.

wishiknew
I've thought about improving my resume but I've had an excellent web agency respond positively to it (and say they liked me after the interview – no position for me right now though). So far I've taken this as a sign that my resume is good and so I'm afraid that making something trendier or more creative (mine's rather classic) might make myself look desperate/fake? On internships: I'm currently looking for one.
mattdw
My first suggestion is to forget what you see on HN; it's totally not representative of most of the world's IT work.

Excel VBA and legacy business systems and nasty abandoned PHP and shitty Java monoliths are way more common out there than Angular and Node and the like.

"…solved many business problems with languages I didn't previously know, such as Excel VBA" sounds like it would make you a fantastic employee for any number of small businesses out there, the trick will be finding them.

I lucked into my first gig via a short-term contract (through a friend) that turned into full-time employment. The job was a mix of Filemaker (which I'd never touched before) and PHP and weird CSV import/export formats (so, basically the most awful combination of technologies in existence), but I solved real problems and was of real value to my employer. Sounds like you could pretty easily do the same, you just need to look for the opportunities.

The stuff that gets talked about on HN seems to be a weird microcosm of cutting edge tech, too much money, and "we have to convince investors we're worth buying so we have to keep up with all the buzzword tech". Meanwhile the other 99% are just tucked away in small businesses solving boring business problems with boring legacy tech and keeping the world turning.

wishiknew
This is a great reminder, thank you so much. I am definitely guilty of considering HN-level programming a standard that it is not.
seanwoods
I just want to second this comment. Focus on solving problems no matter what the technology is. Also, HN talks a lot about web apps, as if they are the only apps out there. Don't get me wrong, I prefer writing software for the web, but there is a surprisingly high number of people who don't feel the same way and would rather use Excel or FileMaker or whatever to get the job done.

Bon chance!

Discere
I would definitely agree with this comment too. I work at a large law firm, now managing a team of developers. I've been in the industry for ~6 years. HN is not what the majority of programmers do.

I started off in IT procurement and worked my way up by showing how I can add value to doing things like you said with the tools around me (Excel, VBA).

If you can demonstrate that you want to solve their problems that's far more important than being a language\framework specialist.

Stability, reduced risk, maintainability, solid track record are more valuable to companies than just using new technologies - these come in and out of fashion - good developers solve problems not just use technologies

lumberjack
You have a CS degree but you are applying for relatively simply web development jobs where you can easily be out done by less formally educated people who have more web development experience. That's a bad strategy.

You should apply for the less flashy jobs at bigger companies that tend to want people with a solid formal education.

FlopV
Have you applied to some of the relatively large corporations? Maybe something more IT oriented than development oriented?
playing_colours
You are either from Switzerland or Luxembourg, right? Maybe move to Berlin? There are a lot of English-speaking startups here, and you can eventually pick up some German as well. Learn say some Ruby on Rails / Javascript by building a website and then apply to jr. positions. Software development requires effort and time. You cannot just build something serious without years of learning and coding.
codegeek
where are you located ? How can I contact you ?
wishiknew
Switzerland. You can write to me at forverylong at gmail dot com.
rifung
Honestly I don't think companies expect you to really know anything about specific technologies if you've just come out of school. Most likely they just expect you to have strong fundamentals in CS, which hopefully you learned, though you say you "feel like [you] didn't learn much at school".

My only advice is to keep applying and work on something while you are still unemployed. You left out whether you've been getting interviews or not, which might be important to see whether it's your resume or interviewing that is the problem.

wishiknew
I know, my original post was much longer but I had to trim it to 2'000 characters. I've been interviewed by a good web agency who doesn't have anything for me right now but who said they liked my profile. (Luckily I don't have to deal with anxiety during interviews because that would make the problem impossible to solve.) I've also been interviewed on the phone and took a Java test for a second company – still waiting on their opinion on the test. Finally, I want to try to become a freelancer if I don't find anything by the end of March.
rifung
With all due respect, just because you got good feedback from one company doesn't mean it's actually good. Employers will always try to be polite and it's unlikely they would ever say anything bad.

In my opinion the only real test is how often you are getting interviews vs not getting one.