HN Explorer

Ask HN: Should I get a mechanical keyboard?

27 points by dbalan ↗ HN
I use an ergonomic keyboard at work (MS natural 4000), I am pretty much satisfied with it though my pinky starts to pain if i type too much than my average. I need to get a keyboard for home - should I stick with what I use or try a mechanical KB (i've never used one before).

58 comments

[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 133 ms ] thread
koffiekop
I use a mechanical keyboard. And I have used it for a couple of years.

With rubberdome or ergonomic keyboards I always had problems with finger strain. The tactile feel of the keyboard allows you to use both short and long actions on the keys so that you don't get that strain.

However, they make a lot of noise and now I can't use it at work. ;(

tarentel
Brown switches with an o-ring mod are only slightly louder than, some, membrane keyboards. Also, if you practice typing without bottoming out the keys no one will notice although it's very difficult to get used to. If you take it slow for a while though you'll be able to retrain your fingers. I have no proof but I've read that it's also better for you.
CmonDev
I love mine (tenkeyless, brown switch).
ramtatatam
I'm using 'Ducky Zero' keyboard. In my particular case (sometimes I spend 14 hours in front of the screen) I see no big improvement apart from the fact that when I type a letter it is typed (I hate when I'm typing a password in console and I'm not sure if keyboard 'took' a letter) The keyboard I use is a bit noisy however it reminds me old commodore times and I actually like this noise.
melling
Should probably look through reddit. Lots of resources of right.

http://www.reddit.com/r/keyboards

e.g. Keypress force.

Red (45 centiNewtons, 60 cN) Brown (45 cN, 60cN, tactile) Blue (50 cN, 65 cN, click/tactile) Black (60 cN, 80 cN) Clear (65 cN, ?) Green (80 cN, 105 cN, tactile)

Most people seem to like Blue and Brown. Blue sounds clicky.

gshrikant
I'd suggest /r/mechanicalkeyboards too. I was looking to buy one recently and the information really came in handy.
chton
Mechanical keyboards are like the whiskeys of the keyboard world. They're not for everybody, and can be an acquired taste, but there's a huge amount of people who swear by them. They're also a premium product, so there is a bigger barrier to entry than the normal products.

To me, a mechanical keyboard has been brilliant. I bought a Razer Blackwidow a few years ago, and haven't looked back. It's much easier to type quickly on than a non-mechanical, because every sensation of it is so defined and fast. As a programmer, that means the connection between my brain and my computer feels more natural.

However, I know programmers that can't stand the increased sound and don't need or want the speed.

If you can afford to buy a keyboard on a whim, I would say "try it and see". The only way to know if it is for you is by trying one for a while and weighing the benefits against the negatives. Even if you don't particularly like it over a regular rubber dome or ergonomic keyboard, at least you'll have a premium keyboard that will last you a long time and will be better constructed than most.

kasey_junk
I love my mechanical keyboards and won't work without them. That said, they aren't magic and there is at least some evidence that they are bad for certain ergonomic style problems.

They can also be very pricey. I would ask around your colleagues to see if anyone has one you can borrow for a little bit.

That said, if you can afford the expense I personally think it is silly to skimp a little bit of money on your main input device for your main career (assuming) tool. My order of importance of spending on machines is SSD, Keyboard, RAM, Display, everything else.

desdiv
Has there been any scientific studies done on the benefits of mechanical keyboard?

I've used one for years and it definitely feels faster and more comfortable, but I honestly can't tell how much of that is due to the placebo effect.

cschmidt
I've found mechanical keyboards start to give me a touch of RSI, where the slim Apple keyboards don't. Maybe I'm just hitting the keys too hard or something. I always give up using them, which is a shame because they feel nice to the touch.
gamache
Mechanical keys are a pleasure to type on, but most mechanical keyboards are of the non-split, non-ergonomic variety, so you'd be taking a step back from the MS Natural keyboard. I have a wonderful tenkeyless keyboard with Cherry brown switches, but I have had to retire it in favor of the less-mechanically-satisfying but nicely split and adjustable Kinesis Freestyle 2. My wrists are happier, even if my fingers and ears are a little disappointed.
hellbanner
Kineses freestyle 2 will drastically reduce pain, especially when used with a standing desk.
zedpm
>you'd be taking a step back from the MS Natural keyboard

Not so fast; your story sounds just like mine, but in reverse. I used a MS Natural keyboard for a couple of years, and over that time I developed significant wrist pain. I tried a lot of things to alleviate the pain, but in the end I had a conversation with someone who suggested buying a narrower keyboard and keeping my mouse very close to the edge (thus avoiding stretching my wrist too far for mouse use).

I ended up buying a tenkeyless mechanical keyboard with Cherry Browns[0] and losing the wrist pain. [0] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007VDKLLM/ref=oh_aui_searc...

Theodores
There is a lot to be said for having the same keyboard everywhere - I have several Logitech MK250's - the keys are where they should be rather than just slightly non-standard. Therefore consider sticking with what you know.
RankingMember
Agreed, though that keyboard would drive me nuts.

I stick with the basic non-mechanical cheap-o keyboards with what I call the "classic" layout- no weird shapes, no playing around with the "Insert", "PageDn", "PageUp", etc locations. This way, when I move to another keyboard or go to help one of the vast majority of people who use a "classic" keyboard, I'm not clumsily typing like it's my first day using a computer.

My family had an IBM PS/1 with a Model M variant that was clacky as hell and honestly the feel wasn't something I'd want in a keyboard. I do recall really liking the feel of the Apple Extended keyboard.

BrianEatWorld
I have the opposite setup, I use a mechanical at work and an MS Natural 4000 at home.

To be honest, I don't notice much of a difference in strain between the two and would even suggest that simply having two types may be beneficial. I do enjoy using my mechanical keyboard more. It certainly feels faster and you get a bit of a high when really pounding out lines of code, just because of the sound, but I don't know that its fast enough to warrant the price difference.

freehunter
With a mere anecdote, I would also suggest having two kinds. Remember, the strain is a repetitive stress injury. Mechanical keyboards may be able to cut down on it, but RSI can still happen. I was getting pain in my wrist from using a mouse, so I switched to a trackball. I loved it so much that I bought one for work, too. A few weeks went by and suddenly I was having sharp pains in my thumb and after another week I was unable to move my thumb. I switched back to a regular mouse at work, keeping the trackball at home, and it balanced out.

So in my limited experience, just making sure you're load-balancing the stress you put on your hands every day makes a big difference. Not sure if this will hold true for a mechanical keyboard vs a regular keyboard, as it may not be enough of a difference. But it might.

rietta
I type on a mechanical, though non-ergonomic keyboard, and like it quite a lot. Specifically a DAS Keyboard Ultimate with Cherry Blue switches. I added o-rings to quiet the report of the click a bit. I have not had tying discomfort in a couple of years since switching to Dvorak layout and going with a mechanical keyboard.

That said. I am not an RSI expert, and can only say anecdotally what I have personally come to like.

I know at least a couple of developers who swear by the Kenisis Advantage - http://www.amazon.com/Kinesis-KB500USB-BLK-Advantage-Contour.... It's a bit pricey, but is apparently a true ergonomic option.

For a straight up nice mechanical with o-rings already installed, the Code Keyboard from WASD is a nice option - see http://codekeyboards.com/.

Gonzih
I use poker 2 with blue switches and code keyboard with green switches. Amazing experience. Love it.
aerohit
Yes. Period. I have two, one each for work and office. Each of my colleague bought one over the past few months.

Our favorite is Poker II.

paulmd
My employer wouldn't go for it, so I sprung for a mechanical keyboard out of pocket. I got an IBM M12, which is a variant of the Model M clicky keyboard with a Trackpoint built in. It looks and works like it's brand new.

Not thrilled with the trackpoint, the sensitivity is too low for a modern hi-res display. If I turn the OS-level mouse speed way up, the trackpoint works OK but the other mouse moves way too fast. I'd love one of the modern-built clicky keyboards with the built-in trackpoint, but I can't find them. Thinking about getting a gaming mouse that can have its DPI turned way down.

Or I could learn vim or emacs and forget about the mouse entirely...

ubojan
I have Cooler Master Storm Rapid I mechanical backlit keyboard. It's pretty compact as it doesn't have numerical keyboard. It has nice light effects as it pretty configurable. I am not really impressed with this keyboard - I make a lot typing mistakes, it's very sensitive. For comparison, I can type faster and with fewer typing mistakes on Lenovo e325 laptop keyboard. It costs about 100euro in my country.

I don't have experience with other mechanical keyboards, so i would appreciate if someone can compare it to other mechanical keyboards.

unwind
Sad to hear you don't like the feel of that one, I've been considering getting one for a while.

Of course, the fact that its on-board ARM processor can be hacked to run Snake on the backlight LEDs has no impact on my choice (see http://spritesmods.com/?art=rapidisnake). It's fun to contemplate the complexity of something as "simple" as a keyboard when things like these become possible.

danmanstx
I also have this keyboard. I find it to be really solidly built and the lighting effects are a nice touch, but would agree that it doesn't seem to make my typing any better then using the keyboard on my macbook pro. FWIW, I originally got the keyboard with brown switches but then sent it back for blue switches and that seemed to make a big different in how it felt. What type of switches did you get?
ninjakeyboard
It's only better than using your macbook pro if you use emacs so you can mash control with your palm - can't do that on a macbook keyboard.
danmanstx
ha, that works pretty well! I currently have cntrl mapped to my caps lock button and mainly use that though.
ubojan
Yes, build quality is really good. I've got model SGK-4040-GKCM1 with brown switches.
jseliger
If you have something that works for you, you may just want to stick with it. That being said, I've tried a bunch of mechanical keyboards and have been using a Kinesis Advantage for about five years: http://jakeseliger.com/2011/07/17/further-thoughts-on-the-ki... and am in fact typing on one now.

Perhaps the best recommendation I can give is simple: I'd never go back if I could avoid going back.

PhrosTT
I like the MS Sculpt (the newer sexier ms natural).

If you look up 'sculpt for business' ($60) you can get it without a gross mouse bundled in.

falcolas
To address pinky pain (based solely on my own experience, this is not ergonomic or medical advice), yes. In my experience, the most painful thing about typing for my fingers is the impact from bottoming out the keys while typing (which is required to activate the membrane switches found in most inexpensive keyboards). You'll want to learn how to type without bottoming out the keys (or pick up some o-rings to soften the landing), but absolutely yes.

I would recommend the Cherry MX Brown switches: they require less effort to push down than other switches, but still offer some tactile feedback when they're activated. If you're comfortable relying on muscle memory instead of tactile feedback, then the red switches will be a real joy to use. Blues are nice, but in your typical office situation they are almost universally reviled.

One advantage of going for reds - there are a number of game peripheral manufacturers which offer keyboards based on the Cherry MX Red.

ethbro
As someone who was on the fence for a while, I ended up getting a CMStorm TriggerZ in Cherry MX Brown (SGK-6010-GKCM1). My thoughts:

Drop the extra cash and order a key sampler set e.g. http://www.amazon.com/Max-Keyboard-Keycap-Cherry-Sampler/dp/...

Assemble and set the sampler next to your current keyboard. Play around with it for a while. It makes a great stress-ball-like "thinking" activity! Swap the keys around, so you get a semi-blind test.

Research the switch activation points and feel them when you use that switch type. F.ex. Browns activate halfway down, but you won't know that using unconnected keys.

Figure out which switch feels the best to you. Research keyboards that provide that switch type as an option.

Purchase, making sure to get the correct SKU. Websites and resellers can be terrible about listing an SKU for one color of switch, then using the flavor text that specifies another color.

The only bad thing about having a mechanical keyboard for me is being on the road and not having it with me. ;)

robgering
I use them and love them.

I was experiencing finger and wrist pain from typing and switched to a mechanical keyboard, which seems to have stopped the pain. Note that I also went to a tenkeyless layout in order to prevent a lot of motion when I move my right hand to use the mouse.

You'll want to do some research into switches, as not all mechanical keyboards are alike. The most popular variants are probably Cherry MX blues and browns. I prefer the clicky feel of the blues, but they are really loud.

jtth
I use a Kinesis (https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage-for-pc-mac/), which is a mechanical keyboard with an ergonomic layout. It saved my wrists while writing my master's thesis. I use an MS 4k for a while, but the Kinesis is lightyears ahead in terms of comfort.

It takes about a week to learn to type on it, as the columnar layout is very different, and I had to learn to retype some characters (like x, c, and v). It's easy to switch back and forth between typical keyboards and the kinesis, so nothing's lost in the learning.

arielweisberg
I switched to this. Heck of a learning curve, but it feels much better.

Getting my fingers onto the home row of a regular keyboard layout is incredibly uncomfortable now. Such a tiny oddly shaped space.

pbowyer
Is it OK for coding? Are the braces well-placed, the $ easily reachable etc?
kps
I've used these since '98 (and my first one is still in use, through and ADB-to-USB adapter). For someone with pinky pain, they have the likely advantage that there are no long stretches (backspace, return) or tight curls (control/alt/meta). As a vi user, I map Escape to the Kinesis' ‘Delete’ thumb key, symmetrical with Enter, and also swap the up & down arrows to match J & K. Emacs folks will have analogous suggestions.
cweagans
I prefer the Kinesis Freestyle over mechanical keyboards. The Kinesis has low-force key switches, so overall fatigue is lower. I also use the Ascent bracket from the same company, which gives me a split, vertical keyboard. It's really nice, and I've seen a noticeable drop in wrist and finger fatigue because of it.
randlet
This is a wonderful keyboard (although not mechanical). Having a split/angled keyboard has done wonders for my shoulders/wrists.
Avitas
Two of the better keyboard websites for perusing details and opinions are DeskThority (http://deskthority.net/) and GeekHack (https://geekhack.org/).

For those wanting real-time guidance, point your IRC client to the FreeNode network (irc.freenode.net) or go to their webchat here:

https://webchat.freenode.net

...and pop in to the #geekhack channel.

These expert sites and chat rooms can be a great help because there are a lot of potentially important details about key switches, layouts, firmware variations, key cap styles / materials and other characteristics that you may want more information prior to making a purchase.

dlevine
I was having a bit of RSI pain before I got my first mechanical keyboard about 4 years ago, and nothing since then. With that said, enough other factors changed that I can't really attribute it to mechanical keyboards.

As for the keyboards themselves, I own 3 with different kinds of switches (it's kind of a sickness). One cool thing about many mechanical keyboards is that you can replace the keys, and there are a ton of different options to choose from.

I would recommend Cherry MX Brown as a good starting point (since they are non-clicky, and not too stiff). With that said, they are common enough that you should be able to find some to play with before you buy.

RogerL
You have a million or so replies saying yes. I'll say no, not necessarily.

I have grievous RSI issues. They mostly evaporated by going to chicklet boards. Your fingers go through a very minor range of motion with them. Notice how some of the replies caution you to not press the keys the whole way? Same thing.

Now any kind of full key keyboard feels sludgey and requiring of an inordinate amount of work.

I am less accurate (and thus less fast) on a chicklet board because of the reduced tactile feedback of where I am on the keys, but it is so worth it to be able to type all day and not be crippled at the end of it. I'm a very good touch typist and don't 'enjoy' the chicklet experience, but it really makes a huge difference in the ergonomics. YMMV.

0942v8653
I don't have anything close to RSI, but with hand pain a chicklet keyboard was quite painful for me because of the small range of motion. Maybe I just type too heavy, but the mechanical keyboard I'm typing this on right now feels much better.