Ask HN: What should I do if I feel depressed in my job?
I work at one of the world's largest software companies. I feel like I am a code monkey with no future of promotion or compensation. Just churning code in and out. I have a family and the job pays the bills. Wife doesn't quite work yet. I can't quite quit or switch companies, as I am on an L1 visa.
I feel I am spinning wheels and feel low most days.
73 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 104 ms ] threadNot to be snarky, but congratulations, you've arrived at the prerequisite state before figuring out what you really want to do. Use this time to plan. Do something. Anything.
And get a hobby you enjoy. Seriously. You need to feel personal growth and progress. Work or hobby. It's all the same.
In England: your employer has a duty to protect you from harm in the workplace. This includes stress, anxiety or depression. Your employer may have an occupational health telephone helpline. Some people say they don't trust employer provided helplines. You could go private: BACP are reputable accreditors for psychological therapies. Or you can use NHS services: do a websearch for your county name and words like "talking therapy" or maybe "cbt". These should take self-referral, but if not you go to your GP and ask for a talking therapy.
Early intervention is important: recovery is quicker and stronger if intervention is early and good.
There are also self-guided systems if you don't want to see anyone. Search for "books on prescription" to see curated lists of sensible books. "Mind Over Mood" is one that's frequently recommended.
There's an Austrailian website: https://moodgym.anu.edu.au/
I recently spoke to about 50 different local employers about mental illness and work and they were all keen to do the right thing and to learn about mental health. So if you recognise something that would improve things for you at work it might be worth just having a chat with them.
Finally: if you find things getting worse it might be worthwhile to create a "rainy day action plan". This would be a list of things that would trigger you into going to see your GP. For example, if you start having suicidal thoughts you should go and see someone. The rainy day action plan is normally used with severe enduring mental illness and can cover Advanced Directives, but they're useful for mild to moderate illness too.
But seriously, things are fucked and it's only getting worse. I'm in the same shoes and I'm trying a startup in my spare time. Plus, the guy running our project decided to quit and leave me alone with a monster made out of spaghetti code. Just finished updating my resume, hoping I won't need to use it.
Don't have any advice that could help. Because the problem is pure greed. Everybody is acting like a vicious greedy fuck, chasing money like there's no tomorrow. Life is now a river of shit and we're all just floating on the surface, waiting for an island or something. People don't seem to care about it either. Complacency is everywhere. Can't say I blame them.
Anyway, the west is crumbling. Go to a cheaper country. With an IT job you will have enough.
An old saying a coach of mine had "if it was easy, everyone would do it". So if it's easy, why isn't everyone doing it?
...also, what is stupid money? $200k+? anything less than that is just called regular money.
For what hath a man of all his labor, and of the striving of his heart, wherein he laboreth under the sun?
For all his days are but sorrows, and his travail is grief; yea, even in the night his heart taketh no rest. This also is vanity.
There is nothing better for a man than that he should eat and drink, and make his soul enjoy good in his labor. This also I saw, that it is from the hand of God.
"Oh, you hate your job? There's a support group for that. It's called everybody, they meet at the bar"
1. Go to a coffee shop or somewhere fun and start a list asking yourself "what do I REALLY want to achieve in my life?" (financial freedom, promotion within a company, launch a startup, run a marathon, etc.)
2. Wake up each day and start working toward achieving your goals.
3. If you're still not happy, then you need to re-evaluate your personal goals.
4. If you don't feel like you're making progress toward your goals, then maybe you're not taking enough risk.
If you feel stuck in your current position, then start networking with other groups inside the company and express your desire to grow your career. Many companies allow you to transition between groups.
If you think you are clinically depressed, seek the advice of a professional as it only gets worse. The usual things apply here: make sure you sleep well (not too little or too much), eat relatively healthy, and exercise plenty). Spend time with friends.
If you're "just" going through a rough patch and are unsatisfied with work, then rest assured this is just part of being a professional. Some days I hate my job, other days I feel like the most fortunate person in the world. The professional part is that I show up regardless of how I am feeling and always deliver the best work I can.
If you find yourself having more bad days than good days, then maybe it's time for a change. Start with an easy change- maybe ask to be put on a different project (ask in a tactful way) or team. Then if it still doesn't get better after a meaningful amount of time (6 months?) then you probably need a bigger change of scenery and should hunt for a new job.
Study something with the goal of mastering it.
Get involved in a non-profit that does something you think makes the world a better place.
Teach your kids to grow up and live their life knowing that "the normal way" (go to school for 20 years, then sit in office majority of week days until you die) to live life isnt the only way to live life.
Consider a homeless person. If they had your job and your paycheck, they would be excited for the opportunity to afford shelter, food, and the stability that comes from a salary job. Looking back at living on the street, hobbling soaked wet through intersections begging for change, your job is a veritable dream come true.
What's the difference between you and the homeless person? Perspective.
Now consider the CEO of your company. He probably makes tens of millions a year. But do you think his first gig at a corporation was a starting salary with seven figures? Heck no; he probably had a boring job with a crappy boss. Yet it seems that his situation changed along with his fortunes.
What's the difference between you and the CEO? Time.
Now, i'm not saying you should just suck it up and deal with your lot in life. What I am saying is that the depression you feel now is a by-product of your perspective being locked at looking at your situation as a disadvantage, and the lack of vision of a better future. It's possible to reorient the way you look at your situation to be happier with where you are, and be happy about how much better it can get with time.
Part of this improved mental state requires introspection, mindful awareness, and emotional growth. You can read various books or take workshops to help with this. It's also useful to find outlets for your restless mind and body, such as exercise, art, music, reading, etc. There's also growth to be had by being active with your family members [though I don't have any useful examples as i'm single].
Finally, therapy works, and I highly recommend talking to someone, both about your job and personal life. Personal growth in general will help you understand why you feel the way you do and how to work towards a better situation.
Best of luck to you!
Make a plan for what you'll do when you are no longer on that visa and free to get a job elsewhere, then start planning and preparing for that future.
It will change the color of your days to know you're doing it with an end-goal in mind and you're not "stuck here forever".
1) Exercise for at least 60 minutes/day. I recommend getting a pedometer and walking 12,000 steps/day, plus working out with weights 2-4 times/week 2) Gratitude -- try to spend time every day thinking about the things you are grateful for 3) Meditation -- 10 minutes/day. It works. Studies prove it! 4) Relationship with the sun -- try to get outside at noon every day 5) Eat an anti inflammatory diet. Inflammation is heavily correlated with depression. 6) Try to do something nice for at least one person every day. 7) Research sleep quality and follow all the best practices. 8) Take a Vitamin D supplement, just in case :)
If you do all those things, you'll probably find yourself a lot happier at your job!
14 Foods That Fight Inflammation http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20705881,00.html
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2rgsan/i_am_elon_musk...
In my experience with serious depression, advice like this actually doesn't work, there was a period I was doing all of these things only to find it did nothing, which was disheartening to say the least.
So by all means do this, but if things persist, speak to your doctor!
> exercise
There is only weak evidence of the psychological benefit of exercise.
Exercise is useful for other reasons, but please don't use words like "proven" when talking about fixing low mood.
When you only include well run studies you find minimal benefit for exercise vs no treatment -- it's a little bit better than not doing anything. There's no reason to expect this would be different for exercise vs treatment -- when you use good quality trials you will probably see very little benefit, and the benefit of actually getting a real fucking treatment is probably going to be better.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004366...
Here's the authors extract for clarity:
> Exercise is moderately more effective than a control intervention for reducing symptoms of depression, but analysis of methodologically robust trials only shows a smaller effect in favour of exercise. When compared to psychological or pharmacological therapies, exercise appears to be no more effective, though this conclusion is based on a few small trials.
Weed will give you the emotive catharsis you desire, in a healthy and positive manner.
the main idea is, do not tie your identity or sense of self-worth to your job. be very clear that your job is what you do to get enough money to support your "real" life, and concentrate on making the rest of your time enjoyable. the side project is a good start, but also exercise more, take up some non-tech-related hobby (maybe one you can share with your wife), take short courses in random, interesting skills (e.g. cooking), develop an active community of friends (host dinners, board game nights, regular "check out a new restaurant" outings, walking tours of interesting neighbourhoods, etc.)
that takes care of the life side. as for your career, you might be stuck in a rut right now due to visa restrictions, but that won't always be the case. when it isn't, will you be prepared to interview for a better job? if you don't feel so, then why not? and if you can identify the reasons you might fall short, it's well worth putting in some time building up your skill set, so that as soon as you are able to move jobs, you are also prepared to do so.
But yeah, make sure you live life to the full outside work. Spend work hours shooting the breeze, being tired or hungover. Get some podcasts going on. I prefer D&D because the stories are never predictable.
Find happiness in your life outside of what you do, and some day that will force itself into your career, even if it has to do it without your knowledge. Happier people interview better, look healthier, and generally find a way to do things better. Be careful tagging it with "Depression", unless you've shown symptoms of clinical depression throughout your life, and likely if it is clinical, this won't be the first time, and your job isn't the cause. If it IS clinical, then seek help.
First thing on the list might be a skills inventory - what would you like to be doing? Can you then start a small project to start learning or developing the skill?
A walk each day - rain, wind, sun or snow - is very important. Away from the office, you will get time to think about positive things, and how you work towards them.
I am sure you don't, but try not to portion any blame on the wife as she is not yet working. I am saying this as a witness to a friend who did the same when he felt trapped and alone in his work situation. One day, you may make a big pivot in life, and your wife will be working and supporting you whilst you do.
Selfish note - the company survived before you and will survive after you. Therefore do what work is required, but if you find yourself with free time then pick up things loosely related to your job, that give you a chance to learn new skills on their dime and their time.
If you are truly experiencing depression rather than a solid realisation that life in the big corps can suck royally, then you do need to find someone qualified to sit with you and address that specifically. But doing so should not stop the daily walks or the small step situation improvement plan.
Good luck.
Once I realised that it was, for lack of a better term, 'caring' for work that shouldn't really be cared for that was the problem, I got much happier. Became very laissez-faire, committed only to doing a good job and not associating myself with the company. Don't be loyal, just be professional in other words, and live for the time when you are not at work.
Seems to be working for me so far. My work and mood has improved, which leads to better things both at work and home.
Have you had this be an issue?
But the other side of this is that, by not emotionally investing in the work, you don't also end up feeling hurt and betrayed should you not get the promotion you think you 'deserve'. When I built some beautiful application, but got passed over, it felt like my manager had stabbed me in the back. That's unhealthy.
Also, I think that once you internalise the idea that the job was just a job you can become a better performer. You wont feel listless and pointless when a client makes your life difficult, or you are switched from one project to the another. I find that now I just shrug, and tackle what's next.
Even if you do those things perfectly it probably won't make you happy because you're letting someone else define what success and progress is for you. And there will always be more to achieve and a higher level to climb.
If the progress treadmill is meaningful to you, power to you. Otherwise, you have to find your own meaning. When you do your pointless job won't seem so pointless.
I make a good salary at a large software company and I have an amazing family and friends. Every day I feel like I'm growing as a human being in my relationships. My job pays the bills and my family is comfortable. We drive old cars and live fairly frugally. I'm much happier now than I ever was when I was trying to make progress according to someone else's rules.
Also, if your job is boring, do the hell out of that job. One of the happiest people I've ever met served pizza and did it better than anyone I'd ever seen; she remembered every customer's name, made all the kids laugh, and had a good thing to say to everyone she met.
There's a lot of satisfaction to be had from taking something that doesn't matter and making it matter.
I decided to put in the bare minimum effort doing the grunt work I was assigned to do normally, and used my free time at work and at home to study machine learning / data science and to speak with the other research team to develop a background in their project. The topic switch and sense of purpose changed my outlook on the job entirely, and after demonstrating that I could add value to their project, this other research group was able to convince my boss to transfer me to their project which has been awesome and led to many cool opportunities.
I would encourage you to explore what other people at your job are working on. Maybe you can move laterally into a role which you find to be more interesting, or at least discover an opportunity to build interesting skills.
Very true :)
Sounds like you have a pretty good life!
If we spent more time appreciating the things we do have, and less time lamenting the things we don't (promotions, specific career trajectories), then we'd all find more satisfaction in life.