I'm not sure, but was there a leap here from the number of arrest warrants issued, to the number of Ferguson residents that have arrest warrants against them? Perhaps most of those warrants are for people not living in Ferguson? (Might be living in nearby areas, or that were passing through?)
Not that this detracts from the shock. Even if it's mostly warrants of people passing through the town, that is horrifying.
> Actually I just realized they didn't appear to be narrowing down the number of people with outstanding warrants by residency - is it just the aforementioned statistic (see my other comment) or is there data on the number of those people who are residents?
Searching through the report I can't find any information to support the statistic they give. Specifically:
According to the court’s own figures, as of December
2014, over 16,000 people had outstanding arrest warrants that had been issued by the court. In
fiscal year 2013 alone, the court issued warrants to approximately 9,007 people. Many of those
individuals had warrants issued on multiple charges, as the 9,007 warrants applied to 32,975
different offenses.
In 2013, the municipal court in Ferguson — a city of 21,135 people — issued 32,975 arrest warrants for nonviolent offenses, mostly driving violations.
Note that the report corrects the 32,975 statistic to 9,007 warrants - where as the former number is the count of criminal charges. Furthermore no where in the NPR article does it state how many of those warrants issued were for Ferguson residents.
Combined with conclusions such as:
The DOJ report shows not just a racist criminal justice system, but one in which the very act of being alive has been made a crime, and in which nearly every resident is wanted by the law at every moment of every day.
The DOJ report does not specify the implication made in the article (it's discussed on page 58 of the pdf, document page 55). It only states that there are 16,000 outstanding warrants.
It takes a dim view of the warrants though:
The large number of warrants issued by the court, by any count, is due exclusively to the fact that the court uses arrest warrants and the threat of arrest as its primary tool for collecting outstanding fines for municipal code violations. With extremely limited exceptions, every warrant issued by the Ferguson municipal court was issued because: 1) a person missed consecutive court appearances, or 2) a person missed a single required fine payment as part of a payment plan. Under current court policy, the court issues a warrant in every case where either of those circumstances arises — regardless of the severity of the code violation that the case involves. Indeed, the court rarely issues a warrant for any other purpose. FPD does not request arrest or any other kind of warrants from the Ferguson municipal court ; in fact, FPD officers
told us that they have been instructed not to file warrant applications with the municipal court because the court does not have the capacity to consider them.
Unbelievable, absolutely disgraceful, I have no words. The entire justice system of Ferguson should be closed down with immediate effect, as it appears corrupt & racist from the police on the street through to the courts.
>the real problem which is income inequality and poverty
We don't really know what "the real problem" is. Something big is going on, and I agree it's not simply about racism. I am seeing similar things in my city, and it's white and wealthy.
As with most things, I think it has to do with money. Police are paid to enforce the law, but no-one is paid to keep the police in check. As the article says, there's ~20k cities in America and it's doubtful that Ferguson is the only one, or even the worst one.
>I am not sure how this article has anything to do with HN
There's a market for justice, which means opportunity. I've wanted to build an app that helps citizens document every interaction they have with government, from parking tickets to DMV to small claims court, and then aggregate the data and then fund "corrective action" whatever that means, from a lawsuit to just filing a complaint. (The app would also make this action much easier to file.)
EDIT: wow, the parent deleted while I wrote this response. Weird.
I was worried this submission would get deleted for being irrelevant, but I'm glad others have picked up on the theme here.
There is a market for justice, but more importantly hacking is about systems; breaking them, securing them, improving them. What we see here is a system breaking down in the wild, and that sparked my interest as a hacker.
Yes it's cool to see how systems fail, but it's even better if you do that and have some sort of solution. "If you show a man a pile of shit, you should also show him a shovel."
You're totally right and I think your idea could help.
Somethething else that could help is cheap, decentralized forms of communication. If we want to enable real momentum for change, people need to be able to talk to each other without fear that every word is easily traced back to their government issued identity.
14 comments
[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 38.9 ms ] threadMust make it easier to get people to not vote... (I know, link goes to an old story, but it happens every presidential election)
I do have to wonder how representative Fergusin's leadership is of its electorate.
Maybe this should be submitted instead of the linked article? (March 4, 2015)
Not that this detracts from the shock. Even if it's mostly warrants of people passing through the town, that is horrifying.
Searching through the report I can't find any information to support the statistic they give. Specifically:
According to the court’s own figures, as of December 2014, over 16,000 people had outstanding arrest warrants that had been issued by the court. In fiscal year 2013 alone, the court issued warrants to approximately 9,007 people. Many of those individuals had warrants issued on multiple charges, as the 9,007 warrants applied to 32,975 different offenses.
No where in the body of this statement does it specify how many of the people to whom warrant's were issued are residents. The other link aside from the report in the article is: http://www.npr.org/2014/08/25/343143937/in-ferguson-court-fi...
Which states quote:
In 2013, the municipal court in Ferguson — a city of 21,135 people — issued 32,975 arrest warrants for nonviolent offenses, mostly driving violations.
Note that the report corrects the 32,975 statistic to 9,007 warrants - where as the former number is the count of criminal charges. Furthermore no where in the NPR article does it state how many of those warrants issued were for Ferguson residents.
Combined with conclusions such as:
The DOJ report shows not just a racist criminal justice system, but one in which the very act of being alive has been made a crime, and in which nearly every resident is wanted by the law at every moment of every day.
I'm inclined to call it shoddy journalism.
It takes a dim view of the warrants though:
The large number of warrants issued by the court, by any count, is due exclusively to the fact that the court uses arrest warrants and the threat of arrest as its primary tool for collecting outstanding fines for municipal code violations. With extremely limited exceptions, every warrant issued by the Ferguson municipal court was issued because: 1) a person missed consecutive court appearances, or 2) a person missed a single required fine payment as part of a payment plan. Under current court policy, the court issues a warrant in every case where either of those circumstances arises — regardless of the severity of the code violation that the case involves. Indeed, the court rarely issues a warrant for any other purpose. FPD does not request arrest or any other kind of warrants from the Ferguson municipal court ; in fact, FPD officers told us that they have been instructed not to file warrant applications with the municipal court because the court does not have the capacity to consider them.
We don't really know what "the real problem" is. Something big is going on, and I agree it's not simply about racism. I am seeing similar things in my city, and it's white and wealthy.
As with most things, I think it has to do with money. Police are paid to enforce the law, but no-one is paid to keep the police in check. As the article says, there's ~20k cities in America and it's doubtful that Ferguson is the only one, or even the worst one.
>I am not sure how this article has anything to do with HN
There's a market for justice, which means opportunity. I've wanted to build an app that helps citizens document every interaction they have with government, from parking tickets to DMV to small claims court, and then aggregate the data and then fund "corrective action" whatever that means, from a lawsuit to just filing a complaint. (The app would also make this action much easier to file.)
EDIT: wow, the parent deleted while I wrote this response. Weird.
There is a market for justice, but more importantly hacking is about systems; breaking them, securing them, improving them. What we see here is a system breaking down in the wild, and that sparked my interest as a hacker.
Somethething else that could help is cheap, decentralized forms of communication. If we want to enable real momentum for change, people need to be able to talk to each other without fear that every word is easily traced back to their government issued identity.