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Ask HN: Moving, but want to keep my job

16 points by djmill ↗ HN
I'm a software engineer and I recently started a new job in February, but I have to move to a new city in August. I love my new job - compared to my last one, things are much better here and I could see myself staying for the next 3+ years if I had it my way (or more, who knows). Background: - 2 internships + 2 co-ops before graduation (~1.5 years of related experience) - Graduated magna cum laude with a bachelors in CS last year - Been working full-time since graduation (~8 months)

The company has a team that works offshore and we have some remote sales folks, but none of our engineers are "full remote". Working from the office isn't necessary and, even from the interview process, I know this company is flexible with where we work from.

So I'm reaching out to the community to see what you all think my chances of keeping my job are. I'll be moving ~10 hours drive away (1.5 hour flight), but my commute to the office would be ~1/month at most (depending on costs: rental car, hotel, flights, etc.) I want to talk to my employer ASAP, but I also don't want to be laid off between now and August in case they want to replace me.. so waiting might be better.

- Have you had an employer allow you to move and work remotely?

- If so, when did you let them know? Months in advance? Weeks in advance?

- How did you enjoy working remotely in a new location?

- How often did they need you to commute to the office and for how long was your visit?

I'm mainly trying to decide when I should let my employer know so they and I can both be prepared for what might be involved in looking for new work down the road.

Thanks in advance.

26 comments

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Clanan
It sounds like you're looking for advice on this nebulous idea of having your cake and eating it too. I actually did something similar last year - I had a good job but was moving out of state for other reasons. The simplest (and only) approach was to be honest with my boss. I opened a discussion of how we could make it happen.

You have to think about the company's point of view: is it worthwhile to keep you on, regardless of whatever difficulties arise? You need to make it a win-win for them.

osi
I did this once many years ago. I had been working with the company for several years. I told them I was going to move, and would love to keep working for them. We agreed on telecommuting and it worked great.
djmill
Excellent, thats great news :)

Thanks for the feedback

cpursley
Ask for a trial basis - see if you can work from home for a few weeks. Prove to your boss that you can be at least as productive, if not more.
fapjacks
This is huge. In my experience, I'd say the biggest hurdle to convincing management to let you work remote is the perceived effect it will have on your productivity. Most of the management I've run into and worked for tend to see remote workers as too lacking in "team communication" for the team to benefit from the relationship, and there are still quite a few people out there that think remote workers are very much less productive than people who come to an actual office. If you have no remote workers at your office currently, this is probably going to be an uphill battle, unless you also work in a place where good ideas win, no matter where they come from. Then you might have a shot. But anyways, this advice is best, a trial run before you move. Good luck!
djmill
^ I totally agree, I'll try and see if a 'trial basis' would work in their favor in case they're iffy about it.

Thanks!

adsfasdf23f23f
This is good, because there is some hurdles that will have to be overcome and it will start out not working well until a few things are figured out. For me the biggest is that we typically communicate in the office face-to-face or over chat. When people work remotely, they give up the face-to-face and rely only on chat which doesn't work well for some things. It's important to learn to pick up the phone, use a virtual white board, screen share, etc.
beefsack
Currently working my second stint in China for my Australian company, first stint was 15 months although this one will be much shorter.

You really need to talk to your boss, you'll probably find them to be a bit more open minded than you think. If they realise they can't really stop you from going they'll likely see more value in keeping you remote than losing you entirely.

You might need to make some compromises, possibly even pay related, but there's a good chance you can meet somewhere in the middle and everyone can be happy.

djmill
Awesome feedback and thank you. It's nice to see this isn't as big of a deal as I was expecting :)

Always good to hear other people's experiences. Thanks again!

IgorPartola
You have my permission to work remotely. Thanks for asking.

In all seriousness, yes this can be done and happens all the time, even in large institutions. A friend of mine moved from Boston to CO, yet kept his Boston University job as a software developer. Just ask. Preferably your boss, not the internet.

djmill
Most definitely, just looking for people's experiences, thanks for the feedback!
djmill
Sorry, I accidentally posted this wrong earlier and I've updated my post.
djmill
And I appreciate the responses. I'm mainly looking for advice based on people's experiences -- Yes, I need to talk to my boss, but I'm trying to figure out 'when' to do this.
JSeymourATL
> If so, when did you let them know? Months in advance? Weeks in advance?

Timing is everything. Three months out is a fair time window. Meanwhile, you'll have grown more seasoned and useful to the team. And your moving plans will become more concrete. Pitch your boss the Work Remote idea as pilot project for 6 months, subject to periodic review. Start reading up on best practices for remote working. You'll want to assure him you have a game plan to make this a smooth, seamless transition. Move on Friday, plug-in on Monday situation normal.

mercnet
- Have you had an employer allow you to move and work remotely? Yes, we have remote employees from acquisitions but it was a challenge to convince my manager's manager that I could work remotely. I was surprised there was resistance in asking because my team is spread out globally so in theory we are all remote workers. When I did become remote, it was more like a trial/probation to see if it works out.

- If so, when did you let them know? Months in advance? Weeks in advance? I started the process in Fall and told them I would be moving in Summer. My manager's manager dragged their feet on making a decision until I told my team I would be putting in my 2 weeks notice in Summer. My coworkers sent emails to their managers that it would be a huge loss for the team if I had to quit. I didn't plan on using this as leverage but it worked out.

- How did you enjoy working remotely in a new location? I am a very social person, but I love working remotely as I get more done than in an office. The local office was an open office design so noise would force me to put headphones on. Now I can play music out loud and not be distracted by side conversations.

You need to define a space that is your office and have rules with your family, e.g. if the door is shut do not disturb me. You need set working hours too. I rarely have to sign in at night to assist with global team members.

- How often did they need you to commute to the office and for how long was your visit? I usually visit the office twice a year or more if I am in town visiting old friends. Usually I visit when other team members are visiting the office.

djmill
Great feedback, thanks so much for the incite into your experience!
jpetersonmn
I would talk to your boss asap about this. It will likely take some time for them to run it up the flagpole to get approval if they are on board, etc...

Good luck with the job and the move.

malyk
- In 2008 I moved from DC to SF and kept my job.

- I started thinking about moving in May, near the end of June I brought it up as a possibility and to see if there was any possible chance it would work for my employer. In late July we worked out the details which really amounted to not much of anything other than "work". And in early September I drove to SF and set up shop.

- I was in SF with my future wife working on a pretty slow moving government contract. It worked for me at the time and allowed me to transition to a new city/life without the hassle/stress of finding a new job. The work was fine, but I was thrust into the center of the startup universe, so it was obvious how much was out there to learn and do.

- I was "supposed" to commute back east quarterly, but it was never really needed, so I only did it once officially (though I was back for a few days for a funeral at one point as well).

Basically, if you are a well respected and valued contributor to the team and the team has experience with other people working remotely then I'd say your chances are pretty good. But I'd start talking to them now. You know you have to move. You know you want to keep the job. But if they are going to telly you it isn't going to work you want to know sooner rather than later so you can find a new job in your new location ASAP.

djmill
This definitely makes sense and thank you for sharing your experience. From what I've noticed, most people say to talk about this early on, so I think I'm going to bring it up very soon.

As you said, the more time I give, the more time I have to look for a new job, etc.

Thanks again!

chidevguy
I actually just did this. Started a new job in June last year, ended up moving across the country in Dec, but really liked my job and wanted to keep it and work remote full time.

Here's what I did:

1) In the months leading up to my move I worked my ass off and always volunteered to help out wherever my boss needed me most. This gave me experience on a lot of our different projects and made me less replaceable.

2) I told my employer one month before my move, and made sure they knew how much I enjoyed working for the company and how I really wanted to continue working for them remotely. However, I also made it clear that I was fully committed to moving with or without my job (in fact the following weekend I was flying out to find an apt).

It seems somewhat selfish and counter intuitive, but I believe that it's better to give less notice time than more. This creates more of a sense of urgency for your employer. A friend of mine tried the same thing but gave five months notice and was told that he couldn't work remote, but "come talk to us in five months before doing anything drastic (aka quitting)".

However, regardless of when you tell your employer, the most important thing is that you must be 100% committed to your move and willing to lose your job and start over in your new location.

To answer your other two questions: Working remotely has it's pros and cons, which I won't go into detail on, since this post is already getting rather long :) But you can find lots of info in other places about this. Overall though, it has worked out very well for both me and my employer.

So far in four months of working remote I haven't been back to the office yet (it's a four hour flight). But from what we've discussed I'll probably be back in the office for one week per year.

Best of luck to you!

deloschang
Great reply - could I ask you to elaborate on those pros/cons? Very interesting post as this is similar to what I'm doing now.
djmill
Wow this is great and thanks for sharing. I had the same feeling that if I let them know too early, it might not work out in my favor; however, I won't know until I try.

As for moving and sticking to it, that's definitely my plan. This move is actually out of my control, so at least when I let them know I'm moving, there's nothing that'll change my mind and I'll make sure they know that.

Thanks again, this really helped.

throwaway1979
I've done remote like this for the last little while. I was pleasantly surprised that my employer was okay with it. Turns out, if you are competent, employers usually don't want to lose you.

Bigger question ... do you want to work like this? I work a lot more/harder than I used to. I have to remember to take breaks. There are no water cooler chats in my life any more ... no chance to grab coffee with a work colleague. I try to go to meetups but it is not the same.

Suggestions: 1) Build a sweet work office. I was working with my laptop for ages and it was tough. Buy a nice printer, external monitor setup, get unlimited Internet.

2) Make sure you have buddies in the home office who can help you if something urgent comes up. VPN/connectivity issues can happen.

There are big questions I have around growth (salary, responsibility are the big ones; technical growth is okay since I put in many hours to study up).

Working from home - if you have a spouse, they need to understand you are working. Home office is best but a separate room may not be feasible.

Don't sweat talking to your boss. I did sweat - turns out it wasn't necessary. You can propose a 3-6 month trial run.

Best of luck

djmill
Great advice and thank you very much for posting. Luckily I've had the privilege of work from home since I started my career, so I've adapted a lot to not being in the office, but you're right - get a sweet office, separate space, and remind myself to take regular breaks.

Thanks again!