Ask HN: Internships for a 13-year-old?
I’m Lachlan (@lachlanjc on Twitter), a 13-year-old with skills in Rails, React, Front-end, and UX. I’ve built Noodles (http://www.getnoodl.es/), a cooking app, and helped build Helpful.io (http://helpful.io) with the community on Assembly (http://assembly.com).
I’ve been looking for internships this summer at startups/larger companies, but most require having already studied CS in college or something along those lines. Has anyone heard about good internships (most likely in NYC) for this summer?
84 comments
[ 0.21 ms ] story [ 142 ms ] threadSurely someone will appreciate your ambition and give you an opportunity, just don't expect it to fall into your lap. No one is listing internships with the expectation that someone pre-college will fill the opening but don't let that deter you. I say this as someone who landed an internship at 17.
Unpaid internships are illegal except under some very restrictive conditions.
That said, these things don't seem to make it to court, so you're probably not risking anything by doing them.
http://www.youthrules.dol.gov/know-the-limits/under14.htm
You can legally work as a computer programmer once you are 14, but there are strict restrictions on the number of hours you are able to work.
With that said, there is hope. First off, many companies are lax in their HR departments and you might just slip through if you have the right connections. This means hustling as has been suggested: getting emails for employees, showing them your ambition and character and drive, and getting a foot in the door. This may turn into a frustrating endeavor as you might be rejected a few times, but it could work with perseverance.
Second, what makes you think you need an internship at all? You have skills, start something yourself. Maybe you want to freelance for a while, this could make for a lucrative summer experience and you will learn amazing skills that will stick with you the rest of your life. Maybe you have another app you'd like to build and grow. Again, this would be a fantastic learning experience.
Edit: comment below is correct, please disregard what I said (although it's still a very bad idea to trick people into signing a contract with you).
That's not generally true, in US jurisdictions; minors can legally enter into contracts, but contracts with minors outside of certain limits are generally voidable at the option of the minor. And a number of states have additional rules which provide conditions which allow some contracts of minors which would otherwise be voidable to be binding if certain procedural steps are taken.
Enjoy your childhood for the remaining 3-5 years before worrying so much about your professional career. You have decades of working in software ahead of you, if you continue on that path. Just enjoy your childhood, go out and play, or even just work on projects you enjoy. Once your childhood is gone, you'll regret not spending more time "not working."
You sound like you already have the work ethic, now make sure you focus on why you need it.
You don't have to be an extrovert to enjoy close personal relationships or have regrets about how much time you spent with loved ones when you had the chance.
I'm sure there are people who don't value people or relationships. If OP is one of them, I'm sure he'll disregard my advice categorically.
I remember asking someone why she would choose not to do something she loves for a living if she could get paid to do it. Her response, "Because I don't want to end up hating it."
That being said, I do like my job. Still, there are other things I would work on if I didn't need to get paid, even beyond the non work related things I already work on.
Besides, age 13-14 is when you start high school, and that's when things get real anyway. If you intend to apply to a top school you need any advantage you can get, and work experience in jobs that are actual careers is impressive.
> more valuable a few years of goofing off
That depends on what "goofing off" is. Is it socializing and developing interpersonal skills? Because wild success hinges much more on interpersonal skills than it does on being the best programmer.
I think you'd learn more about how to socialize with adults in an industry by hanging out with them... at work. And these are the people you want to get along with anyways.
When I was 13, I was incredibly fortunate to land an internship at Marvel Comics in NY. For a teenage boy obsessed with the X-Men, this was like dying and going to heaven. I didn't even care that I was given menial tasks and paid entirely in comic books. I got to meet John Byrne, and that was enough.
The OP sounds like someone with enough interest in programming that an internship would be at least as much about "fun" as it is about "professional development".
I say, if it sounds like fun, go for it. If nothing else, it'll be an opportunity to meet software professionals with as much genuine interest in programming as you have, as well as some who are in the industry for other reasons. Both will be instructive.
The first time I had an internship the person I was working for insisted on calling my mom when I showed up because he didn't know how young I was haha. One place you might be able to have success is Eyebeam http://eyebeam.org/ I did an internship there when I was in college, but as a non-profit learning center I think they might be more likely to have something for you, check em out. You might also try contacting the High School for Engineering http://www.afsenyc.org/ and see if they know of anything or have any opportunities.
Also, if you'd ever like advice about working/interning in the NYC tech scene (or programming in general) feel free to email me, contact info in profile.
Spend your summer doing something that you love. If that's coding, do that, and don't worry about getting paid for it yet. Also don't worry about building your resume -- you can start doing that when you're 14, if your heart is really set on it.
No one looks back on their life and thinks, "I wish I'd spent more summers working when I was a teenager." If they're lucky, instead they'll think, "I wish I could go back to those summers and really appreciate them for what they were: the last time I really didn't have to worry about anything."
For some perspective, I worked for software companies as a teenager and it hasn't helped me at all in my career. It wasn't worth the time, although having money was nice. But I don't remember the money now or what I did with it.
I guess I'll add this to my own comment: working at a real job as a teenager isn't going to make or break his career. He's a smart and driven kid, just as you seem to have been. If he enjoys coding more than socializing or traveling or whatever, he should certainly code, but he's already well beyond his peers (and always will be).
It's just very different to work on your own stuff at your own pace vs. working for a boss. I also suspect completing more of his own projects would actually be better for his career than whatever a company would allow him to do.
Plus, that was what always impressed the most during job interviews. I was generally one of the top prospects in the interviews I did -- not because of my GPA, or the school I went to, or past job experience, but because of some of the interesting projects I'd done either on my own or to help out my father with his businesses. It shows not just skill (which lots of other people have, even if it might be a bit less than you) but ambition and drive (which, it seems, not many others have).
Which is exactly why I'd suggest working for someone if that's what he's into. Working with other engineers will give you a real sense of engineering standards, give you a sense of how to work on teams, help you set a reasonable pace etc. In a lot of ways at that stage in life your boss is much closer to a mentor/coach.
I would not suggest he does contract work, but instead finds a group of people who are interested in teaching and mentoring. I think we are comparing different outcomes in that sense.
Plus, with this drive and ambition his company might IPO when he's 18 and then he can retire and spend the rest of his life living the good life.
The real issue is that some people have a postiive attitude adn enjoy what they do, and some people live their life regretting everything they didn't do and not appreciating what they do.
Oh and I can't agree enough with all the people saying savor the time. I can remember countless days where I was 'bored' stiff all day, while nowadays I find myself dreaming of being able to not have to sleep daily so I could fit in even more hours for projects, both personal and professional.
I firmly believe that as you age your perceived notion of time passing only accelerates.
You seem to have your own DIY-initiative and an ability to learn independently and execute. It seems like an internship would add little to that, and at the same time, there's the opportunity cost: what would you have built on your own outside of that structured internship time?
(nevermind the risk of burning out early, and regretting not having a more carefree adolescence)
I admire your work and ambition. I started my career at your age as well, mostly building websites for friends and family.
As mentioned in previous comments, there are US laws that stand in the way of companies actually hiring you, and nobody wants to break the law.
It might be a good idea for you and your parents to look up what exactly the US laws are that apply to your situation. Some online research might answer that question or you can send a quick note to your family attorney.
If you don't have a family attorney I'd be happy to put you in touch with my attorney, he started coding at your age too and I'm sure he could point you in the right direction.
That will tell you exactly who can and can not hire you and take that hurdle of research out of the negotiation process with potential employers.
After you know the legal details I would start looking in your direct surroundings for opportunities ( friends, family, classmates, classmates' parents, etc ) or with smaller companies that are more flexible to make changes accommodating a minor ( e.g. getting rid of the beer fridge temporarily ).
For example, I run a small engineering studio in Los Angeles, it would be easy for me to get rid of all of our beer compared to a big corporation that might have to make more extensive changes to their offices and have a request like this pass through many layers of corporate bureaucracy.
Good luck!
Just don't be dismissive of initially non-software opportunities, especially because those are the types of opportunities you're most likely going to see from family friends (the only people who might be able to hire you at this age).
In my experience, the most valuable knowledge in software (unless you're in the elite crew of coders) is domain knowledge - the ability to bridge the "functional" or "business" needs with the software that can automate/improve/innovate in that space.
You can be a mediocre coder and bring incredible value to a team by knowing the domain very well.
You only get this kind of knowledge by studying or living it.
If it is because you like programming, I don't think anyone is going to hire you for a few years. Why don't you do a few projects on your own and see what you can come up with?
If it is because you're turning prematurely preprofessional, for god's sake enjoy your childhood. Go to a pond and skip stones on the water.
You'd be surprised, however, at the amount of kids who go "professional" from a very early age because of parental pressure or something like that. All I said was that if that is the case, it is too early to go professional.
On self-started projects: Noodles was my first of them, and I’m working on some more. Side projects are great, but right now I’m looking for something bigger.
You can always look for really popular websites that need a total redo. Try buying a horse trailer or a horse and the horrific sites that await you are a world of opportunity to replace. Examples: http://www.horsetrailerworld.com/ http://www.dreamhorse.com/
Hard to believe after 15 years those sites haven't changed and are still some of the most popular equine sites around.
Not any real money to be made in this but someone needs to fix this mess.
I'm sure there are dozens of other types of sites like this but these are two I'm familiar with.
- Due to child labor laws it might be an uphill battle.
- If no one will give you am internship you can try and join a bigger open source project.
- If all fails I'll happily not give you an intership and not have you working with robotics aimed software. Remote though. ;)