It's not so much a choice between Smart TV vs. not Smart TV anymore. If you buy a TV today, it is very likely to be "smart". You can just decide to use the features or not (or when to stop using the features).
> If you buy a TV today, it is very likely to be "smart".
Of course, if you aren't using the built in receiver for OTA broadcasts, you don't really need a TV, you need a monitor. You can get commercial monitors that are just like "Smart TVs" without the smarts and the receiver that makes it a TV instead of a monitor, though you may have to look outside of the consumer-focused retailers that you think of when buying a TV.
I did this for years, but monitors are oddly more expensive than TVs.
All my TVs now are actual TVs, but they are more or less permanently set to HDMI1 input and all the other input source switching is handled externally. The exception being Netflix on the non-theater TVs, for that I usually use the on-TV Netflix client.
> The exception being Netflix on the non-theater TVs, for that I usually use the on-TV Netflix client.
And, if that fits what you want, great. OTOH, If someone is trying to avoid unwanted features of SMART TVs, some of which may not be separately opted-in and which generally rely on network access, providing network access to the SMART TV to allow the use of the on-TV Netflix client is self-defeating.
(I'm personally not so concerned about those features, though I've seen plenty of people who seem to be, I just want to avoid relying on SMART TV features because they are additional potential sources of failure, and because the "SMART" parts become outdated much faster than the display parts.)
But you can still get the TV cheaper. If you're using a monitor, that's implying all your sources are outside the TV anyway. You don't need to plug the TV into a network then.
So, the TV effectively becomes a monitor, but cheaper.
It's not odd that they are more expensive, monitors typically have higher refresh rates and faster response times. Both of which imply more powerful hardware for the monitor's driver.
Not these days (from what I've seen). I think it's mostly a supply/demand thing. Though some monitors do come with longer warranties, it's not worth the added cost.
Me neither, at least not in the way the smartness of the TV was intended to be used. My recently bought LG 60LB870V, the then-flagship of December 2014, running webOS 1.x.
It turned out to be a really incredibly slow OS with the TV occasionally crashing due to RAM shortage (having to reboot the TV). It's unbearable slow when "SIMPLINK" is on, ie forwarding remote control key presses like "play" over HDMI to my Kodi player, even for stuff that I don't think is forwarded (volume etc). It can without exaggeration take 10s from eg volum-up-press to volume increasing on the TV. Unbearable.
Fortunately, the smartness also allows me to control it programmatically. I've written a small node.js/javascript module here: https://www.npmjs.com/package/lgtv so that I can control it over my local network.
I use it to have a webapp served by my media server to press the Totoro-button to switch to HDMI_1, volume = 10, Kodi start movie Totoro (my daughter loves it). Etc. To qoute Jim Carrey, "There's no end to the possibilities!" :)
I figure so long as the software is stable, responsive, and does not depend on a backend somewhere to function, it's fine.
We are accustomed to constant updates, but it is hardly required. Software, so long as it is quality, can stand alone as an "appliance" for a long time.
My truck's onboard computers and smart radio come to mind. As does the intel 486 ROM burner in my college lab. The world marches forward, but they still do the job.
The biggest "risk" is probably just the advancement of media formats. My smart TV will probably support fewer of the most common formats come 2020.
I think you're in the minority. Most TV owners don't have xbox or chromecast. Netflix bundled with a TV strictly reduces the friction to watch Netflix.
I think you're overestimating the pull Netflix has. Literally everyone I know either has a Chromcast, a Roku, or an Apple TV.
While I'm sure some sales will be driven by this, I don't believe its going to be enough to move the needle. If anything, it'll push Amazon and Google to provide better offerings with their respective devices.
Just because literally everyone you know uses those platforms doesn't mean they have meaningful pull either. That's unless you know every TV owner in the world. Your anecdotal experience is irrelevant compared to the average experience of the hundreds of millions of TV owners across the country and world.
Most Netflix subscribers (edit from people) just want to watch Netflix on their TV. If you're buying a new TV, the easiest way to do that is to get one that supports Netflix out of the box.
I think it's a safe assumption that most Netflix subscribers want to watch Netflix on their TV with ease.
My grandpa has a Netflix account. If he wants to buy a tv that can play Netflix, It's so much easier for me to tell him "buy a TV with the Netflix logo" than "buy a TV and then buy either chromecast/Apple tv/roku."
> I think it's a safe assumption that most Netflix subscribers want to watch Netflix on their TV with ease.
I think it's a safe assumption that most Netflix streaming subscribers already have a way to watch Netflix where they want it, whether that's on their TV, on some other device, or both. In some cases, when that's on a TV, its directly through the TV, but in many cases its through a Chromecast, DVD/BD player, AppleTV/Roku, etc., etc., etc.
If they are looking to replace the TV, then, in all cases except where the existing TV is also where the Netflix app is, all they need to do is replace the TV with any TV/monitor that works with their existing mechanism, which probably means "has an HDMI port". Which isn't a really difficult challenge.
The only time the friction is reduced for an existing customer by a TV with an integrated Netflix app is when they are adding a new location, or replacing an existing TV where they were already relying on an on-TV app.
> I think you're overestimating the pull Netflix has
Literally every device in my entertainment system can independently access Netflix: the TV itself, the Apple TV, the Blu-Ray player, and the Xbox. Two of those devices' remotes have dedicated Netflix buttons on their remotes.
So you're right that this is probably not going to drive sales. But that's only because they've saturated the market already, not because they aren't relevant to how a lot of people watch TV.
I literally don't know anyone that has either a Chromecast, a Roku, or an Apple TV. I watch Netflix via the Wii (or the PC, which is nowhere near a TV).
My Samsung includes Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, Hulu & HBO Go making my set of casting devices mostly superfluous. And only one remote is definitely a benefit. I think the masses are going to be happy with that.
Shouldn't they also take other factors into account, like image quality, sound quality, connectivity and the likes? Seems rather easy just to slap a "quality" label onto a TV just based on how well it runs the Netflix client.
I think because those are qualities that are evaluated on their own -- the 'Netflix' label applies to tvs whose specific Netflix app is good/exceptional. Sort of like how a restaurant cleanliness score doesn't evaluate the quality of the food, but is useful in determining if you want to dine there anyway.
Do any of the Smart TVs have interesting network functionality (e.g. remote control APIs? SNMP? WOL? UPNP?) or are they just using their network capabilities to phone home and stream?
My 2013 Panasonic supports most of the HDMI interoperability features (e.g. streaming to my Chromecast automatically powers up the TV and switches to the right HDMI port) and UPnP both as a client and renderer.
That said UPnP is a fractured standard, so behavior is patchy. Some formats simply aren't supported, and Windows can't figure out how to control volume when rendering to the TV- but that's the fault of a weak standard more than of the TV.
There is a remote control API as evidenced by the Android remote control app, but it's probably a closed API.
My girlfriend bought a new TV recently that turns on immediately, but the "smart" TV software takes about 30 seconds to boot up and become available. I think the time to availability of the software is what they're talking about.
Wow, 30s? I have a dumb TV (Viara plasma) and an AppleTV 3rd generation.
The AppleTV is practically instant on, the Viara is PDQ, not instant, but way less than 30s.
30s is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but considering how quickly my current setup is ready, if I had to wait 30s with a new TV, I would take it back.
41 comments
[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 93.3 ms ] threadBut I'm not a fan of Smart TVs anyway because they will become disposable much more quickly.
Of course, if you aren't using the built in receiver for OTA broadcasts, you don't really need a TV, you need a monitor. You can get commercial monitors that are just like "Smart TVs" without the smarts and the receiver that makes it a TV instead of a monitor, though you may have to look outside of the consumer-focused retailers that you think of when buying a TV.
All my TVs now are actual TVs, but they are more or less permanently set to HDMI1 input and all the other input source switching is handled externally. The exception being Netflix on the non-theater TVs, for that I usually use the on-TV Netflix client.
And, if that fits what you want, great. OTOH, If someone is trying to avoid unwanted features of SMART TVs, some of which may not be separately opted-in and which generally rely on network access, providing network access to the SMART TV to allow the use of the on-TV Netflix client is self-defeating.
(I'm personally not so concerned about those features, though I've seen plenty of people who seem to be, I just want to avoid relying on SMART TV features because they are additional potential sources of failure, and because the "SMART" parts become outdated much faster than the display parts.)
So, the TV effectively becomes a monitor, but cheaper.
It turned out to be a really incredibly slow OS with the TV occasionally crashing due to RAM shortage (having to reboot the TV). It's unbearable slow when "SIMPLINK" is on, ie forwarding remote control key presses like "play" over HDMI to my Kodi player, even for stuff that I don't think is forwarded (volume etc). It can without exaggeration take 10s from eg volum-up-press to volume increasing on the TV. Unbearable.
Fortunately, the smartness also allows me to control it programmatically. I've written a small node.js/javascript module here: https://www.npmjs.com/package/lgtv so that I can control it over my local network.
I use it to have a webapp served by my media server to press the Totoro-button to switch to HDMI_1, volume = 10, Kodi start movie Totoro (my daughter loves it). Etc. To qoute Jim Carrey, "There's no end to the possibilities!" :)
We are accustomed to constant updates, but it is hardly required. Software, so long as it is quality, can stand alone as an "appliance" for a long time.
My truck's onboard computers and smart radio come to mind. As does the intel 486 ROM burner in my college lab. The world marches forward, but they still do the job.
The biggest "risk" is probably just the advancement of media formats. My smart TV will probably support fewer of the most common formats come 2020.
While I'm sure some sales will be driven by this, I don't believe its going to be enough to move the needle. If anything, it'll push Amazon and Google to provide better offerings with their respective devices.
Most Netflix subscribers (edit from people) just want to watch Netflix on their TV. If you're buying a new TV, the easiest way to do that is to get one that supports Netflix out of the box.
Citation required please.
My grandpa has a Netflix account. If he wants to buy a tv that can play Netflix, It's so much easier for me to tell him "buy a TV with the Netflix logo" than "buy a TV and then buy either chromecast/Apple tv/roku."
I think it's a safe assumption that most Netflix streaming subscribers already have a way to watch Netflix where they want it, whether that's on their TV, on some other device, or both. In some cases, when that's on a TV, its directly through the TV, but in many cases its through a Chromecast, DVD/BD player, AppleTV/Roku, etc., etc., etc.
If they are looking to replace the TV, then, in all cases except where the existing TV is also where the Netflix app is, all they need to do is replace the TV with any TV/monitor that works with their existing mechanism, which probably means "has an HDMI port". Which isn't a really difficult challenge.
The only time the friction is reduced for an existing customer by a TV with an integrated Netflix app is when they are adding a new location, or replacing an existing TV where they were already relying on an on-TV app.
If all you want to watch on your screen is Netflix, why buy a TV (defined by being a monitor with a TV tuner built in) at all?
Literally every device in my entertainment system can independently access Netflix: the TV itself, the Apple TV, the Blu-Ray player, and the Xbox. Two of those devices' remotes have dedicated Netflix buttons on their remotes.
So you're right that this is probably not going to drive sales. But that's only because they've saturated the market already, not because they aren't relevant to how a lot of people watch TV.
Which are 4K TVs and likely support the Netflix 4K standard as well.
That said UPnP is a fractured standard, so behavior is patchy. Some formats simply aren't supported, and Windows can't figure out how to control volume when rendering to the TV- but that's the fault of a weak standard more than of the TV.
There is a remote control API as evidenced by the Android remote control app, but it's probably a closed API.
So a TV that turns on when you turn it on is a feature worth certifying for, now? Ahh the joys of smart equipment. My dumb TV turns on instantly.
The AppleTV is practically instant on, the Viara is PDQ, not instant, but way less than 30s.
30s is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but considering how quickly my current setup is ready, if I had to wait 30s with a new TV, I would take it back.