Modern russian literature has an interesting phenomenon. There is a huge old-school website where authors post their books before being published chapter by chapter for free to get feedback and corrections. For example this is one of my favourites:
Not really, although some authors do this in a more fragmented fashion on various niche sites. For example, https://www.literotica.com/s/dream-drive-ch-01 is a really good book that will be pulled from literotica and sold via Amazon once it's done. The example I pointed to doesn't have a lot of sex in it, it's more like a fantasy/RPG based Ready Player One.
Except for the digital part. Though actually I've heard rumors of ebook sharing/trading sites similar to a digital library, though I'm unsure exactly how that would work; heavily DRM-based, I would guess
Even the digital part. There is a thing called the Sails Library Network (http://www.sailsinc.org) that offers full digital catalogs for libraries. They have mobile apps and it works with Kindles or Kindle apps. It's also not back catalog stuff only as is the case with Oyster. Libraries have been the "Netflix for Books" for centuries before there was a "Netflix". Maybe people should use them more, they are wonderful things and you're already paying for them to exist and serve you.
Speaking as someone who is not familiar with Oyster…
The journalist (Davey Alba) has left out some critical context to drive home the significance of Oyster’s foray into "ebook retail".
After doing some research, here’s the part that the Wired article doesn’t make explicit:
Yes, the Oyster subscription service is has titles from "all 5 big publishers" and yes, it is "unlimited" but the catch is that the content is mostly the publishers’ back catalogs. In other words, a brand new book release would not have been available on the $9.95 subscription service on the first day. This is similar to Amazon Prime Instant Video where the old seasons of TV shows are free but the latest/last/current season costs $$$. Spotify for music also works like that for some artists; Adele has her old songs available in the subscription but her brand new song might only be available from iTunes for $1.29.
It looks like a common industry pattern of segmentation whether it's books, videos, or songs: the old stuff can be packaged into cheap subscriptions but the new stuff will command a separate premium.
With Oyster adding the ebook retail component, members can get access to the very latest books without waiting months (or years) for the title to show up as a subscription option. The members simply buy the ebook as a separate additional charge from the $9.95 subscription.
Since Jeff Bezos’ seems to have a very antagonistic relationship with the book publishers, it gives Oyster a chance for significant ebook sales.
What’s odd is that Jeff Bezos studied Walmart and he surely knows that the brick&morter stores share analytics sales data with their vendors. That way, the vendors can maximize efficiency of their supply chains and in turn, offer lower prices to Walmart. The article implies that amazon.com does not share analytics with the publishers (unlike Oyster) . I don’t know why Bezos would be so guarded about it since it can help publishers fine tune their offerings which in turn should help Jeff sell more ebooks and Kindle devices. Maybe he thinks he needs that proprietary data as a comparative advantage for his own publishing house[1]. However, it seems unrealistic to think many major authors would jump to Amazon Publishing because amazon has better analytics.
> It looks like a common industry pattern of segmentation whether it's books, video, or songs: the old stuff can be packaged into cheap subscriptions but the new stuff will command a separate premium.
It's a good thing that most books worth reading are "old". Time is a signal, so I would consider this a feature.
Thanks for the added info, I also wasn't familiar with Oyster. It also appears that Oyster offers the app for iOS and Android, but that still leaves a hole for e-paper readers. I'll likely be buying a Kindle Paperwhite in the near future, as the contrast, weight, and battery life just can't be beat. I do wish there was a competitive e-reader open to other subscriptions/retail stores such as Oyster. Why is there no open e-reader OS yet? Is the market demand for e-readers over tablets not there?
Adding to this, from going through their website, it's not as simple as "old" books are free and "new" books are a premium. I did a cursory look through their catalog and it looks like any book that is still selling well and under copyright has a price on top of the subscription fee. The DaVinci Code came out 12 years ago and is still $10 on top of a subscription, Storm Front (15 years old) is still $10 as well, A Game of Thrones (19 years old now) is $10 on top of a subscription fee, etc. Ten, twenty years is a relatively short period of time for a book to have existed, granted, but it's still a lot longer than the one year wait you'd get from Netflix.
It seems like the analytics the article talks about are from the unlimited service Oyster operates, and the analytics being offered is contrasted to services like Netflix. I think Amazon still probably offers the publishers information about retail sales.
I'm not an expert on the Kindle device (and the Kindle app for Android and iOS) but I understood that amazon has fine-grained "page reading behavior" data from the Kindle ecosystem. Data like what pages readers bookmark, the relative position of where readers "give up" on finishing a book, etc. I'm guessing this is the data that amazon is not sharing with the publishers.
That seems to me to ruin any point of Oyster. 10 usd/month is already redicously expensive given that most books are less than that as a kindle book and that most readers doesn't read a book a month (most people don't read a book at all after HS, but they aren't the target market). To then charge full retail price on top of that for books one would actually want. What are they thinking?
I can't find the reference, but a few years ago, I remember Tim O'Reilly making some point around book pricing to the effect that time was ultimately the limiting factor for book consumption. In other words, you can drop the price to zero and most people will still consume a relatively limited number of books. (Of course, O'Reilly has a subscription service themselves but that's arguably a bit different because most of the books in Safari are the sort of things that many people will dip into rather than read cover-to-cover.)
$10/month does seem high for most people. That's at least 10 Kindle or used book purchases--including bestsellers. That's about what I read (excluding books that I want in physical form).
> (Of course, O'Reilly has a subscription service themselves but that's arguably a bit different because most of the books in Safari are the sort of things that many people will dip into rather than read cover-to-cover.)
And you can talk employers into buying a site license for Safari, rather than having to get all your business directly from consumers.
I think he is right about that for books you want to read through. It would certainly be worth paying more for a cross library subscription that would allow you to quickly look up things in a lot of different books - but that only works for non-fiction.
Almost every article I read about this company involves the term "Netflix for Books" in the headline. Very few involve the name of the company, Oyster. I legitimately wonder if that hurts or helps them as a brand. It does imply the depth of library that Netflix has in video, which Oyster does not have given my experience. I also assume if you search for "netflix books", they'll pretty much own the front page of results because of it.
In terms of the company, I have to wonder whether or not a number of the subscriptions are paid for but never used. I could see this falling in line with gym meberships, where you're paying for something you feel like you should be doing, and canceling just admits defeat.
The difference is that Netflix selection actually does have quite a bit in my experience, it's just that as time goes on, I've already watched all of the best things. Netflix is a product that people use often and in ways rarely before seen in media consumption. It's like eating at the same restaurant every day for years. No matter how much they offer, you're going to get tired of eating the things you like all the time.
Oyster, on the other hand, just doesn't have the collection to start with. It has a bunch of books that are either public domain (therefore free through many services) or not incredibly well known (which is fine, but hard to find things to read when people tend to already have so many items on their "to read" list). Once again, this was only my experience with the product.
Oyster looks like an interesting service, but my interested in them is severely limited until they either come out with an e-ink device of their own or partner up with someone else who has an e-ink device like B&N or Kobo. I can't read books on a phone or tablet display, and I know I'm not the only one (or Kindle sales would've died out years ago).
For what it's worth to anyone interested in Oyster, I've found Scribd to be the better product. I like the UI better, it's cheaper, and the access to audiobooks and comics is nice. Maybe Oyster does those latter things since I've tried it.
My parents are in their late 70s, they both use a Kindle Paperwhite, and they figured out on their own that US Public Libraries allow you to digitally check out books to your Kindle for FREE.
I had no idea of this, yet my 70+ year old parent figured it out ... and you don't even need to go into the physical library, it's all down over the web or via an app.
Which is why I suspect most companies have not tried this "Netflix for books" business because it already exist for FREE and it's called the US Public Library.
If your library is an Overdrive subscriber I would encourage you to try again, they have improved their service immensely. eBooks on Kindle or tablet devices are now very easy and even include syncing between devices. Audiobooks have switched entirely to the MP3 format for near universal compatibility. The only annoying holdout is if you have an e-ink epub device like a nook or a kobo. You obviously continue to deal with limited availability, but the service has come a long way.
These systems are a pain to use sometimes (everyone seems to be using the same software monopoly) and there are limited copies available at one time due to licensing.
Personally, I can afford these things, so I feel bad taking resources from those who can't. I font mind paying for this kind of service and leaving the library to those who can't, the same way I don't go to the library to use the internet. I have a 50mbps connection at home.
Libraries (at least in the US) have an artificial cap on the # of books they have. Which means it doesn't satisfy that "I want to read this now" craving that Netflix has. A popular book can have a multi-week wait in the SF public library.
The libraries have a license for a particular number of copies of each title that can be checked out at one time. They pay for this license, at high rates for popular books (more than hardcovers).
I'm a big fan of my local library, unfortunately their ebook system is very annoying. They've partnered with some service that only allows you to access books through an iOS app (so I can't read on e-ink) and it seems that each book is just a pdf delivered to the app, so you can't change font size or the way the words flow. On top of that, if they even have the book you want you often have to wait several weeks before it's available for you to actually download.
That could be a manufacturer problem - i.e. Amazon being uncooperative with allowing kindle users to read books from sources other than the kindle store.
If you can get an epub or mobi version of the book you borrowed, you can use Calibre [1] to put it on your e-ink device. You can also email books to your kindle, but I've had mixed success with that.
Unfortunately, on this end it's entirely a software issue. No way to get anything downloaded except through the app. I wonder if I had a jailbroken iPad if I could somehow extract the PDFs it downloads, but even then it wouldn't be a pleasant experience on the Kindle.
I do like Calibre, which I've used to get Project Gutenberg books among others onto it.
Yup. My local library only has so many copies of ebooks, and they're almost always checked out. One book I was looking for had a four month wait list. For an ebook!
Hoarding ebooks like physical properties is not a good way to behave.
>Hoarding ebooks like physical properties is not a good way to behave.
As someone who deals with e-books for libraries, I feel that frustration, but I also understand where publishers are coming from. They are doing everything they can to hold onto a business model they have been successful with. They also have authors to deal with, who have been successful with the same model and control the production of the product, to some extent.
That said, I suspect many libraries would be willing to license e-books like they license journal content: on an all access subscription model.
Ours doesn't have ebooks nor audiobooks (at least downloadable, maybe it has CDs), and the books it does have are translated, which is great for the general accessibility by the population, but a loss for those of us who can read the original versions.
>
>FFS, our local library lets you "borrow" e-books and audiobooks online,
The smug overconfidence ("ffs"?) of your reply tells me that many who are spreading the good word about public libraries are overestating their offerings. (But then again, others are ignorant that ebooks exist at public libraries so maybe all of the blind spots from both sides evens out.)
The caveat you're leaving out is that the public libraries have a limited ebook catalog.
I'll use Atlanta GA public libary as an example. It's a major city with a decent sized library.
Look at the Michael Chabon ebooks available from their public library:
The public library works great for those who don't have a specific reading list and would be satisified with "whatever" limited selection they happen to have. (Yes, you can request your public library to buy a new book but that's a separate administrative step and their committee has to review it before adding it to the budget.)
To summarize the disadvantages of ebooks at public libraries mentioned by others:
-- limited selection of titles
-- of the titles the library actually has in the collection, there is a cap on # of simultaneous checkouts from the "virtual inventory". This will result in a wait list for an ebook if it's a popular title
-- the ebooks have a "due date" and the DRM of the ebook will enforce that
-- some libraries only offer DRM epub formats that are not readable on Kindle (unless the user is tech savvy with 3rd party conversion software)
You can request a title and more and more libraries are leaning on patron driven acquisition (PDA) for collection development. The library I am employed at buys almost everything that comes in via recommendation.
That said, limited availability is a much more complicated problem than budgeting or selection. With print books there's a very well established workflow and discount model. Wholesalers who sell to libraries provide steep (up to 40%) discounts and a very polished workflow for selecting titles (we have standing orders for best-sellers, top authors, big series, etc, that save us hours of work). Ebook vendors don't offer discounts because publishers control prices and the selection model is not nearly as polished.
Additionally, all major publishers have some limitation on their ebooks. For some vendors we pay up to 3x the cost of a retail hardcover and for others we are limited on the number of times the title can check out (26 or 52 times, depending on the vendor). Still others simply sell on a 1 or 5 year lease model. Libraries are still trying to adjust their budget models and workflows to fir these new limitations we've never had to deal with before.
So yes, I love libraries, but it's not nearly as simple as "your library has ebooks" and that's a sad state.
Why would publishers offer libraries discounts? If anything one would assume they either wouldn't sell you their new books at all or would at a minimum charge you through the nose. After all your are a competitor.
I get it for older books, that makes sense, since at that point most of the books would stop selling and be worth more as a means to get readers to buy the next in the series.
That's the point I'm trying to make. Physical materials, the materials libraries have built their workflows and budgets around, operate using different rules. Wholesalers will provide discounts because libraries buy lots of stuff and so better discounts mean moving more materials and, more importantly, stopping customers from going to another wholesaler. E-books have no wholesaler. They are controlled by the publisher so there is no going to a competitor for better pricing. Thus higher prices (in the realm of 3x the retail hardcover).
That said, publishers have been lowering prices and increasing access slowly. Along with being competitors, libraries are customers, and big ones. Public libraries buy more that 1 billion in materials a year. That's a lot to walk away from because they are "competitors".
My point was just to communicate that though libraries offer value, It's difficult to compete with something like Oyster at the moment.
I'm seeing lots of threads here making the facile "you mean the public library?" comparison, but have any of you ever actually tried using the "digital lending" features at your local library?
It's nothing at all like a Netflix for books! Limited selections that make Netflix's streaming library look vast, tight restrictions on the number of "digital copies" that can be lent out at once, leading to months-long waitlists for popular titles, and lastly, the one thing Netflix abolished at the outset, due dates.
Public libraries are a great treasure, but they are emphatically not a "Netflix for books."
To be fair, it's not like Netflix's digital library is exactly "Netflix for movies" either. That's also true with Oyster and their limited front list titles. For broad access, physical is still where it's at.
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[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 122 ms ] threadhttp://samlib.ru/t/tahion
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=h...
It's like Steam early access for books. Is there something like that in english-speaking internet?
After doing some research, here’s the part that the Wired article doesn’t make explicit:
Yes, the Oyster subscription service is has titles from "all 5 big publishers" and yes, it is "unlimited" but the catch is that the content is mostly the publishers’ back catalogs. In other words, a brand new book release would not have been available on the $9.95 subscription service on the first day. This is similar to Amazon Prime Instant Video where the old seasons of TV shows are free but the latest/last/current season costs $$$. Spotify for music also works like that for some artists; Adele has her old songs available in the subscription but her brand new song might only be available from iTunes for $1.29.
It looks like a common industry pattern of segmentation whether it's books, videos, or songs: the old stuff can be packaged into cheap subscriptions but the new stuff will command a separate premium.
With Oyster adding the ebook retail component, members can get access to the very latest books without waiting months (or years) for the title to show up as a subscription option. The members simply buy the ebook as a separate additional charge from the $9.95 subscription.
Since Jeff Bezos’ seems to have a very antagonistic relationship with the book publishers, it gives Oyster a chance for significant ebook sales.
What’s odd is that Jeff Bezos studied Walmart and he surely knows that the brick&morter stores share analytics sales data with their vendors. That way, the vendors can maximize efficiency of their supply chains and in turn, offer lower prices to Walmart. The article implies that amazon.com does not share analytics with the publishers (unlike Oyster) . I don’t know why Bezos would be so guarded about it since it can help publishers fine tune their offerings which in turn should help Jeff sell more ebooks and Kindle devices. Maybe he thinks he needs that proprietary data as a comparative advantage for his own publishing house[1]. However, it seems unrealistic to think many major authors would jump to Amazon Publishing because amazon has better analytics.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Publishing
It's a good thing that most books worth reading are "old". Time is a signal, so I would consider this a feature.
$10/month does seem high for most people. That's at least 10 Kindle or used book purchases--including bestsellers. That's about what I read (excluding books that I want in physical form).
And you can talk employers into buying a site license for Safari, rather than having to get all your business directly from consumers.
In terms of the company, I have to wonder whether or not a number of the subscriptions are paid for but never used. I could see this falling in line with gym meberships, where you're paying for something you feel like you should be doing, and canceling just admits defeat.
Given that Netflix's catalog has a reputation for providing frequently underwhelming selection, ouch.
Oyster, on the other hand, just doesn't have the collection to start with. It has a bunch of books that are either public domain (therefore free through many services) or not incredibly well known (which is fine, but hard to find things to read when people tend to already have so many items on their "to read" list). Once again, this was only my experience with the product.
My parents are in their late 70s, they both use a Kindle Paperwhite, and they figured out on their own that US Public Libraries allow you to digitally check out books to your Kindle for FREE.
I had no idea of this, yet my 70+ year old parent figured it out ... and you don't even need to go into the physical library, it's all down over the web or via an app.
Which is why I suspect most companies have not tried this "Netflix for books" business because it already exist for FREE and it's called the US Public Library.
My wife uses the library for audio books on CDs, consuming several a month. I spend a little money at Audible and have a more convenient experience.
That said, I really like my local library not only as a source of physical books, but also because of talks and other events.
Quick disclaimer: I am a librarian.
Personally, I can afford these things, so I feel bad taking resources from those who can't. I font mind paying for this kind of service and leaving the library to those who can't, the same way I don't go to the library to use the internet. I have a 50mbps connection at home.
FFS, our local library lets you "borrow" e-books and audiobooks online, you never have to set foot in the building.
If you can get an epub or mobi version of the book you borrowed, you can use Calibre [1] to put it on your e-ink device. You can also email books to your kindle, but I've had mixed success with that.
[1] http://calibre-ebook.com/
I do like Calibre, which I've used to get Project Gutenberg books among others onto it.
Hoarding ebooks like physical properties is not a good way to behave.
As someone who deals with e-books for libraries, I feel that frustration, but I also understand where publishers are coming from. They are doing everything they can to hold onto a business model they have been successful with. They also have authors to deal with, who have been successful with the same model and control the production of the product, to some extent.
That said, I suspect many libraries would be willing to license e-books like they license journal content: on an all access subscription model.
The smug overconfidence ("ffs"?) of your reply tells me that many who are spreading the good word about public libraries are overestating their offerings. (But then again, others are ignorant that ebooks exist at public libraries so maybe all of the blind spots from both sides evens out.)
The caveat you're leaving out is that the public libraries have a limited ebook catalog.
I'll use Atlanta GA public libary as an example. It's a major city with a decent sized library.
Look at the Michael Chabon ebooks available from their public library:
http://afpl.ent.sirsi.net/client/default/search/results?qu=c...
The public library certain has all of his books in hardcopy format but for ebooks, it's just 2 titles. Compare with the 13 titles on Oyster:
https://www.oysterbooks.com/author/NakTfeyKUXxFcvzHC2JKFD
Again, look at another popular book, "The Goldfinch":
http://afpl.ent.sirsi.net/client/default/search/results?qu=T...
There is no ebook available at all from Atlanta's library. But Oyster has it:
https://www.oysterbooks.com/book/Kf4mghNUTfnJSiJS758h5V/the-...
The public library works great for those who don't have a specific reading list and would be satisified with "whatever" limited selection they happen to have. (Yes, you can request your public library to buy a new book but that's a separate administrative step and their committee has to review it before adding it to the budget.)
To summarize the disadvantages of ebooks at public libraries mentioned by others:
-- limited selection of titles
-- of the titles the library actually has in the collection, there is a cap on # of simultaneous checkouts from the "virtual inventory". This will result in a wait list for an ebook if it's a popular title
-- the ebooks have a "due date" and the DRM of the ebook will enforce that
-- some libraries only offer DRM epub formats that are not readable on Kindle (unless the user is tech savvy with 3rd party conversion software)
That said, limited availability is a much more complicated problem than budgeting or selection. With print books there's a very well established workflow and discount model. Wholesalers who sell to libraries provide steep (up to 40%) discounts and a very polished workflow for selecting titles (we have standing orders for best-sellers, top authors, big series, etc, that save us hours of work). Ebook vendors don't offer discounts because publishers control prices and the selection model is not nearly as polished.
Additionally, all major publishers have some limitation on their ebooks. For some vendors we pay up to 3x the cost of a retail hardcover and for others we are limited on the number of times the title can check out (26 or 52 times, depending on the vendor). Still others simply sell on a 1 or 5 year lease model. Libraries are still trying to adjust their budget models and workflows to fir these new limitations we've never had to deal with before.
So yes, I love libraries, but it's not nearly as simple as "your library has ebooks" and that's a sad state.
I get it for older books, that makes sense, since at that point most of the books would stop selling and be worth more as a means to get readers to buy the next in the series.
That's the point I'm trying to make. Physical materials, the materials libraries have built their workflows and budgets around, operate using different rules. Wholesalers will provide discounts because libraries buy lots of stuff and so better discounts mean moving more materials and, more importantly, stopping customers from going to another wholesaler. E-books have no wholesaler. They are controlled by the publisher so there is no going to a competitor for better pricing. Thus higher prices (in the realm of 3x the retail hardcover).
That said, publishers have been lowering prices and increasing access slowly. Along with being competitors, libraries are customers, and big ones. Public libraries buy more that 1 billion in materials a year. That's a lot to walk away from because they are "competitors".
My point was just to communicate that though libraries offer value, It's difficult to compete with something like Oyster at the moment.
It's nothing at all like a Netflix for books! Limited selections that make Netflix's streaming library look vast, tight restrictions on the number of "digital copies" that can be lent out at once, leading to months-long waitlists for popular titles, and lastly, the one thing Netflix abolished at the outset, due dates.
Public libraries are a great treasure, but they are emphatically not a "Netflix for books."