I have been working very hard to avoid doing this in the last few years, but it's hard when it's so pervasive among colleagues and other technical folks.
There was - I believe - a Tesla desert demo video with the engineers that came out late last year and I had to stop and count the number of sentences that started with "So," and I think it was 90%+ for a 15 minute video.
It may not drive everyone else nuts the way it does for me, but it's filler that I feel implies a condescending tone or at minimum a way to gently increase the perceived validity of the point and expertise of the speaker.
I think "So, ..." is mostly equivalent to "Well, ...". Both can be used as filler words or for signalling. It's just that in our community "So" is much more common.
For me the word has no content, it is a way to prime the listener. It's the on ramp to a sentence. "Get ready, I'm about to say something."
Try this experiment. Start your conversations without any pre-amble for a day. Just launch right into the topic. Count how many times you are asked to repeat yourself.
The next day try it by adding "Hey ..." or "So ..." and count again. When I did this there was a 50% decline in need for repeats. Note: Sample size was very small.
It's painfully obvious to me that I have this linguistic quirk, because my fiancé (who is not a computer geek) interjects with "buttons!" every time I start a sentence with "So...".
This is annoying, but possibly not as annoying as listening to someone who starts half their sentences with the same word.
--
Thinking about it a little more, this habit is not specific to the computer / programming geek communities. I noticed others doing it around 2009-10, when I did almost no programming and didn't hang around with programmers. I mostly hung around with math and physics grad students. I suspect it is more generally a geek phenomenon, not specifically computer / programming geeks. Or possibly it's an even wider phenomenon than that - hard to say, since most of my friends are geeks of one sort or another.
It would be interesting to see if male and female geeks do it with similar frequencies. My guess would be that male geeks do it more often (based on the interpretation that starting a sentence with "So..." is a way of saying "I have given this topic serious thought" and the assumption that this is more likely something that a male geek will want to indicate than a female geek).
I know some non-geek Canadians who use this particle: "So, how was your day?". There are similar or even equivalent particles in other dialects and languages, for example "Also .." in German and "Look, .." in Australian English. However, in my experience, the purpose of that particle is to introduce a new topic or to indicate a context switch, rather than signaling that 'I've given the following serious thought'.
Almost entirely unrelated but another good/incredibly annoying interjection is to say '-tish' when hearing someone pause mid-sentence with 'but um'. It's an excellent way to lose friends and get socked on the nose.
I have a theory that the use of "so..." to prefix a statement serves two purposes for the speaker: gives them a few more seconds to form their statement, and it also creates a rhetorical beachhead, allowing them to stake a claim in the conversational airspace. This is particularly useful in environments where it can be difficult to get a word in edgewise when others are dominating the space. Unfortunately it becomes a bad habit used to start every other sentence.
With that said, I despise it as well, being the adult equivalent of the teen practice of scattering "like" throughout every conversation. What is even worse is when it works its way into the written form though, something you don't see with "like".
Though I agree with the reasons you surmise, I also think "so" is used by some people like chewing gum - as a somewhat meaningless habit that occupies the time or keeps nervousness at bay. Wild theory here. Also, I am chewing gum as I write this :) But not nervous.
Also, I don't think downvoting people whose opinions you don't agree with, is a good idea. Rather leave a comment in reply saying why you don't. And yes, I have read the rationalizations for that (downvoting) behavior, in other HN threads. But don't agree with it. Smacks of nervousness (again) to me - nervousness when someone disagrees with your opinion or voices an opinion different from yours. What's there to be nervous of? Opinions are just that - opinions.
I see a lot of speculation about what causes this, but if it is actually serving some sort of important linguistic purpose we would expect it to generalize beyond the English language, right? Do French geeks start their sentences with "Si, ..." (or equivalent)?
Germans use "Also, ..." (which confusingly means the same as "so" in English whereas English "also" is "auch" in German and German "so" most of the time means "like this" -- false friends all around).
My impression to this point had been that it wasn't specific to geeks but rather to speakers who are a bit uncomfortable. For example, I recall hearing a lot of students use it all the time while nervously giving presentations, desperately trying not to de-rail their trains of thought.
As geeks tend to be more socially awkward, I'm fairly certain it actually has less to do with geekiness and more with lack of confidence -- I've seen decidedly non-geeks do it when they're nervous.
As for the "So, ..." with a pause for dramatic effect:
I find that the implications tend to depend on context. I can confirm the use with the meaning of "I will try to explain concepts unfamiliar to you using analogues hopefully more familiar to you and this is going to take me some mental effort" but I disagree that this is specific to geeks, unless you define "geek" as "someone more familiar with a given topic than you".
I can also confirm its use followed by a summary of what the other person said ("So, ... you're saying this is a bad idea?").
I don't think the use to re-boot a conversation after an awkward pause or to change the topic is as common in German, though other fillers like "Okay, ..." tend to be used the same way.
The functions definitely aren't unique to English and there is a lot of overlap in the words being used. The author comes off as a bit too much of an armchair linguist for my taste.
Harry Shearer of The Simpsons has a recurring segment on his radio show where he collects clips of people incapable of answering questions without "So, " couching.
In my book it's even less defensible in writing than in speech. You see it in countless reddit submission titles that aren't a response to or continuation from anything.
I realized reading this that I start many many sentences in French (my native tongue) with "Bon, " which is a strict equivalent. After a quick look at my IRC logs, it seems that a lot of my geek friends do the same. It's funny to see that this cultural trait is not specifically tied to the English language.
I’m an English and French speaker, and I certainly do it in both languages. In French sometimes it’s even “bon, alors”. I’ve heard in in German with “also” as well.
I'm an English and German speaker and do it in neither. I find it contrived. There's a lot about language usage today that annoys me, like the new trend of being excited for something. You might look forward to something, and be excited about it. I realize that language evolves, so I keep my annoyance to myself. What I struggle with is the prejudice I reserve for those who brutalize a language for little else than being conformational, trendy or contrarian.
Interesting. After reading your comment, I just realized that practice is common in Hindi and Marathi too, using "Accha" and "Burr" respectively (both of which mean the same as "Bon" in French, i.e. "good" in English). I guess it may apply to many other languages too.
This is the geek equivalent of corporate buzzwords. Lots of communities do this and it comes and goes in fads.
Listen to political commentators. For them, the trendy thing is to start sentences with "Look,..." For tech people giving talks on stages, it's looking and sounding as much like Steve Jobs as possible. Pilots, Chuck Yeager. In hip hop, it's "Son,..."
The unifying theme and the reason these things feel obnoxious is that they all attempt to put the speaker in an implicit position of superiority. It's unoriginal, trite, and boring. It's like using lots of swear words. It's what's happens when writers don't venture outside insular communities.
"Geeks like to prefix sentences, questions and answers both, with “So, …” "
I didn't know it was something specific to geeks. As a non-native English speaker, I sometimes start my sentences with "so" (not sure where i picked this, maybe from literal translation of French "donc").
The author isn't writing about any prefixing of the word "so." He's writing about the use that implies "what I'm about to say is really complicated and few understand it but me, but I'm going to take my best shot at breaking it down for you."
It's accompanied by a certain tone, a slight uptick in tone, followed by a momentary hesitation.
Indeed. That usage of "so" is very different from (imagine a person telling a story) "So I was walking in the park the other day...", in which case the "so" is said very quickly and almost blends into the next word (unstressed "so" followed by stressed next syllable - subconsciously converting into iambic meter, maybe?).
I've only noticed that I write "So..." at the beginning of some sentences, when writing a first draft. I delete it, of course, but I suspect it serves a purpose when speaking: When you're speaking, you need a quick way to divert others' attention to you. When you're writing, you already have their attention.
It appears to be a "new information marker", which is a feature in quite a large number of the world's languages. English, despite the efforts of legions of fifth-grade English teachers, is a natural language, and its grammar changes, or at least tries new things, through time. Languages that aren't dead yet do that. We recently had a similar thread about the use of "no", which has become a sort of redirection/steering indicator.
"no" at the end of a sentence, after a comma, to mean "isn't it so?", was common in Mumbai (Bombay) from many years ago. Interesting that it has started being used in the States now, which I've noticed on other forums and in personal interactions too. My guess is that it came into use in Bombay English via some Indian language, where it is a normal way of speaking.
That appended, questioning "No?" at the end of a statement is prevalent all over India. And yes, it comes from a Hindi construct "Arre, Chal naa yaar" (literally, "Let's go, No? friend".)
Yes, I kind of guessed that idiom might be prevalent in multiple Indian languages, because I have noticed the same thing with other idioms - they are there in more than one Indian language.
For the last couple years I've consciously tried to remove "so" from writing as much as I can. It rarely seems to add anything to what I'm trying to say. Avoiding it in speech, though, has been a bit more difficult.
Beowulf starts with a "So", in the 1999 Seamus Heaney translation. He explains why in the foreword:
'so' operates as an expression that obliterates all
previous discourse and narrative, and at the same time
functions as an exclamation calling for immediate
attention.
Seems related to why I feel compelled to say "ummm" or "uhhh" before responding to a Subway employee asking me what I want on my sandwich. It just feels like I am being nicer and not barking out commands.
77 comments
[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 134 ms ] threadThere was - I believe - a Tesla desert demo video with the engineers that came out late last year and I had to stop and count the number of sentences that started with "So," and I think it was 90%+ for a 15 minute video.
It may not drive everyone else nuts the way it does for me, but it's filler that I feel implies a condescending tone or at minimum a way to gently increase the perceived validity of the point and expertise of the speaker.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2231932
:-)
Try this experiment. Start your conversations without any pre-amble for a day. Just launch right into the topic. Count how many times you are asked to repeat yourself.
The next day try it by adding "Hey ..." or "So ..." and count again. When I did this there was a 50% decline in need for repeats. Note: Sample size was very small.
This is annoying, but possibly not as annoying as listening to someone who starts half their sentences with the same word.
--
Thinking about it a little more, this habit is not specific to the computer / programming geek communities. I noticed others doing it around 2009-10, when I did almost no programming and didn't hang around with programmers. I mostly hung around with math and physics grad students. I suspect it is more generally a geek phenomenon, not specifically computer / programming geeks. Or possibly it's an even wider phenomenon than that - hard to say, since most of my friends are geeks of one sort or another.
It would be interesting to see if male and female geeks do it with similar frequencies. My guess would be that male geeks do it more often (based on the interpretation that starting a sentence with "So..." is a way of saying "I have given this topic serious thought" and the assumption that this is more likely something that a male geek will want to indicate than a female geek).
;)
I was wondering where this expression, 'so buttons', comes from? I think I'm missing something and Google is not helping.
I thought it might be how you pronounce 'sew buttons' but isn't that supposed to be pronounced like 'Sue'?
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sew
sew:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/sew
UK /səʊ/ US /soʊ/
so:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/so
UK /səʊ/ US /soʊ/
sue:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/sue
/suː/
"So" and "sew" are homophones in both UK and US English.
I do this, but with "a needle pulling thread."
Our standard, almost automatic response is, “A needle and thread.”
Also, when someone says, “Well…” the correct response is, “A hole in the ground.”
(Thus, “Well, well, well,” gets, “Three holes in the ground!”)
Gotta love English.
With that said, I despise it as well, being the adult equivalent of the teen practice of scattering "like" throughout every conversation. What is even worse is when it works its way into the written form though, something you don't see with "like".
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9364377
Also, I don't think downvoting people whose opinions you don't agree with, is a good idea. Rather leave a comment in reply saying why you don't. And yes, I have read the rationalizations for that (downvoting) behavior, in other HN threads. But don't agree with it. Smacks of nervousness (again) to me - nervousness when someone disagrees with your opinion or voices an opinion different from yours. What's there to be nervous of? Opinions are just that - opinions.
My impression to this point had been that it wasn't specific to geeks but rather to speakers who are a bit uncomfortable. For example, I recall hearing a lot of students use it all the time while nervously giving presentations, desperately trying not to de-rail their trains of thought.
As geeks tend to be more socially awkward, I'm fairly certain it actually has less to do with geekiness and more with lack of confidence -- I've seen decidedly non-geeks do it when they're nervous.
As for the "So, ..." with a pause for dramatic effect:
I find that the implications tend to depend on context. I can confirm the use with the meaning of "I will try to explain concepts unfamiliar to you using analogues hopefully more familiar to you and this is going to take me some mental effort" but I disagree that this is specific to geeks, unless you define "geek" as "someone more familiar with a given topic than you".
I can also confirm its use followed by a summary of what the other person said ("So, ... you're saying this is a bad idea?").
I don't think the use to re-boot a conversation after an awkward pause or to change the topic is as common in German, though other fillers like "Okay, ..." tend to be used the same way.
The functions definitely aren't unique to English and there is a lot of overlap in the words being used. The author comes off as a bit too much of an armchair linguist for my taste.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filler_%28linguistics%29#Filler...
So...I'm probably part of the problem.
In my book it's even less defensible in writing than in speech. You see it in countless reddit submission titles that aren't a response to or continuation from anything.
Dear Sir/Madam. Congratulations on being eligible for your senior citizen discounts. And why yes, I'm getting off your lawn immediately.
:-)
But yeah, I agree. I am too, how to put it, well past my college years. And yes, I too find more and more things annoying with passing years.
And so it goes ;)
Listen to political commentators. For them, the trendy thing is to start sentences with "Look,..." For tech people giving talks on stages, it's looking and sounding as much like Steve Jobs as possible. Pilots, Chuck Yeager. In hip hop, it's "Son,..."
The unifying theme and the reason these things feel obnoxious is that they all attempt to put the speaker in an implicit position of superiority. It's unoriginal, trite, and boring. It's like using lots of swear words. It's what's happens when writers don't venture outside insular communities.
I didn't know it was something specific to geeks. As a non-native English speaker, I sometimes start my sentences with "so" (not sure where i picked this, maybe from literal translation of French "donc").
It's accompanied by a certain tone, a slight uptick in tone, followed by a momentary hesitation.
(click 'page' link to expand quoted area)
This is pretty much in-line with Steve Wilson's "Full-start" theory in the last paragraph.