Ask HN: Being harassed by Odesk client, What should I do?
I replied the client asking about these foolish clause in the contract and he said he just wanted to filter out the potential developer and wanted to see who paid attention to the details and he will send me the revised version.
Now he replied to the same email(the email with previous contract) with new contract where line 53-75 replaced by a para which said I cannot disclose any of the info given by the client about the project. Now what yahoo(client)/gmail(me) did was, it nested the old contract inside the new one as it was reply to the thread by the client but while replying to the email for agreeing, I manually removed the nested part from the reply which had the old agreement and added this line "I accept the terms and conditions stated in this email and this email only.".
After this, the client said since you have agreed to the terms, you will have to buy a control panel access by paying him via paypal to which I disagreed post which he started threatening with legal consequences since I have signed the agreement. He kept threatening me by Odesk messages. The odesk message thread: http://i.imgur.com/yxgOXgB.png
I reported this to Odesk but I just got a reply from them asking for screenshot email where client was asking for money, I replied more than 10 hours ago and there has been no response from them.
Now my doubt is, Am I legally safe here or is this some noob online trying to con me?
also, He has my email id and basically anyone can get my complete address and phone number using my email id from whois databases since I purchased few domains with same id. Is it possible to get that data removed?
What should I do next?
90 comments
[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 139 ms ] threadI'll also add that most courts in the West will laugh this lawsuit right out. Judges use common sense in small claims, and a contract requires a "fair trade," this fails both of those tests.
Plus they could file in India and you can ignore it. They cannot really file in the US (or anywhere else) because flights and filing fees would cost more than they claim you "owe."
Overall this legal threat is just moronic. It is obviously a scam (or a second scam after you caught the first scam text and called them out on it).
This is the same as people from India calling from "Microsoft" because your computer has "viruses." Or the "IRS" because you "owe tax money."
Also avoid oDesk.
It's the rest of oDesk that's a complete shit show. Confusing UI is just the start. You won't see me trying to recruit on that site.
Then, searched HN and found something I think is worth the try, have a look at: https://gun.io/
Line 1: http://www.wikihow.com/Write-a-Legal-Contract
Line 29-43, 77-89: https://www.sba.gov/blogs/contract-law-how-create-legally-bi...
Line 49: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Contract
Line 51: http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/business-contracts-forms/ho...
And so on and so on. Every single line in that contract is stolen from a 101 article about writing contracts. Seriously, check any single one by putting them in quotations on Google.
Take it for what it is: a hilarious scam attempt by someone who will have to move on to their next "victim" rather than spending time and money harassing you.
Whch means we see who messages us . If you do nonot we do not even bother with you. We take a long time to respond because we are busy.
If you have fell into this stupid post you are on a kindergarteners social level. Please report us we would love to show much of an uneducated tech you are.
Regards Our company
Personal attacks are not allowed on HN.
Lost it right here.
And, FWIW, kindergarteners have more self-awareness than this.
I would be delighted to take you up on your offer. Please give me your personal information so I can report you.
My name is Arnold Cosgrove. I'd like to offer you a position in my Improv Comedy Group. No need to send me a demo, your posts here have been enough evidence I need of your skill.
Starting salary is $40/hour, with the possibility of up to $120/hour depending on how funny you are. All jokes either written, performed, or thought of by you from now until you become stale and hack belong to me, and all of your future income belongs to me too, including anything I pay you. This contract will never expire.
By reading this comment, you hereby agree to the terms put forth, and if you try to ask questions, the internet police will charge you with theft for some reason, and also copyright infringement.
Regards, my me.
How ever sir Scotty if I wanted your money or your information I would take it directly from the back doors allowed on emails and messagnger. I would not let my staff waste there time.
The fee in which he is carelessly lieing about Would be the control panel fee inwhich we require you to have to work for our company.
What programs do you get to have full control over for free? Exactly Plesee be more educated.
As for your comments against us, that is called Ignorance thanks have a great day.
How about we go through your own list of programs that your control panel gives access to?
* WordPress: Free and open source. * Drupal: Same. * Joomla: Same. * Bulletin Board software: Same. * PHP: Same. * Python: Yup. * Javascript: Same. * OpenPGP: Also FOSS.
At least half of your bloody toolkit is stuff that developers can easily have full control over for free. Stuff that you're charging a prospective employee to use.
Poor OP. I owe you a beer, Michael. Welcome to HN, Masonlove.
Please learn
a) English b) Indian Commercial Law, and the Indian Penal Code
and come back a wiser person.
1. Yes , contract can be legal bind even word but if there where not transaction involve.. might be ignore.
2.Even got contract,sometimes client would delay and give lot of excuses.
3. All my freelance work i wanted to bind with contract and i have legit company to avoid many nonsense client.
4. Did i been harassed like you, Yes.much worst. I had to close my Facebook account.
Yes.
He wants to get paid (ideally, get paid $175 for this "control panel"). He will hound you to the exact extent you engage and indicate he might be able to get money.
In order to actually get any money by suing, he would have to pay a lawyer and disclose his identity, both of which he is very unlikely to do. If he did he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
He might very well threaten to contact whomever he can dig up contact information for that's related to you & tell them you're a bad, bad contract-breacher, but that's about the worst he can do. And why would anyone care? Every message by him makes him sound like an obvious scammer.
Pardon me while I giggle.
I have no idea why you think India is some kind of legal Wild West where anyone can send you a contract and sue you because you said "I agree to some of these terms" over email. Even if OP is in India, contracts in India are typically written out on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamped_paper, and often require initials of both parties on any correction. Something like this would be thrown out of court way before going to trial.
The person who is trying to scam OP is obviously an unintelligent scammer, regardless of the nationality of either of them. OP should plain ignore him, and keep the screencaps and emails just in case he is stupid enough to file anywhere.
In India, the scammer could try. Someone trying to sue you can still cause you to have a very bad day, even if they get thrown out of court fairly quickly. Or at least, that's true in the US -- maybe India is less of a legal Wild West than the US. :)
That part wasn't linked to the grandparent comment's last sentence, it seemed to me like a line glibly tossed off -- but okay, I'll give them the HN "best intentions" benefit of the doubt :)
Getting a legitimate case to court in India is a fairly Sisyphean task. Getting one as ridiculous as this might be considerably worse, and would probably incur frivolous litigation costs¹ if it ever actually went to trial.
But yes, IANAL and all that -- just trying to point out that OP has very decent solutions available even if he is in India. If he is not, then yes, as you pointed out, there is very little reason for concern.
[1] http://www.legalblog.in/2011/11/exemplary-costs-on-frivolous...
At https://gun.io we avoid this by thoroughly screening clients and developers before making introductions, and by having a dedicated team of account managers who are able to make sure that projects go smoothly for both freelancers and clients. We'd love to have you apply!
I doubt that can be used against you anyway, but why did you think it was a good idea to continue?
Additionally the point about saying 50% of all your profits going forward would mean for every $40 per hour you make you would owe them back $20. HAH! Yes, ignore them, move on, don't make the mistake in the future.
HN has certainly "done the needful" to his comments though.
Though if you want some entertainment, your harasser is on this thread as "Masonlove" and appears to be just as entertaining as you described.
This is someone who is playing games and obviously doesn't value your time. If you get burned, all the warning signs are there. At the very least, this person will waste a lot of your time.
I highly doubt the scammer even understands his own contract. (This section of the contract was copy-and-pasted from an SBA blog post)
---
I'm wondering, though: what are the OP's options if he does reside in India?
Save your messages, screenshot stuff.
But don't worry this twat won't do anything because he's probably hiring a ton of unsuspecting people with the same con. If 1 in 50 actually pay him it's worth it to him. He won't actually sue you.
Obviously, you don't need to do anything to defend yourself here, other than block and report him for spam on Skype and to Odesk for fraud. No lawsuit is forthcoming, as the annual median income in India would cover approximately 90 minutes of time with a reasonably qualified attorney.
[1] http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/indi...
Edit: If it hasn't been flag killed by the time you read this, Masonlove (the scammer involved here) has made his way into this thread and it's quite entertaining. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9411900
...Oh my god.
Stats like this make me realize I have no idea how lucky I am to be US born.