These R&D centers still depend on hired resources. People who sell their time and services for a salary. But as I understand it, Valley's big portion of success is in its startups and their founders. People who take risk to create wealth and jobs. They themselves may not have all the required skills to succeed. But they hire others to fill that gap. They take that risk as part of their entrepreneurship. This is what is missing in the R&D centers in India. There are a lot of bright people working for others. But not for themselves. This will change in future. But we are not there yet.
My hunch is its going to take a lot more than 5 years.
I’ll bet that in 5 years, if you stacked up a TechCrunch 50 of Indian start ups versus a comparable number of U.S. startups, it would be a pretty even match.
I think there's something distinctly Indian about making 5 year plans, even if they sound ludicrous (when I lived there, many people told me that 'India would be a world superpower in five years'). I think it might have something to do with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plans_of_India.
Yeah, the five year plans have been rather a bane for the Indian economy. In fact, central control and planning in all spheres are generally looked up to in India. We even used to have joint families which were very common till very recently - a joint family is where many generations of a family tree under a patriarch live together. Even businesses till recently were more likely to be family owned.
Entrepreneurship in India is on the rise now though. But my problem with the article is that the author is talking about taking on Silicon Valley, but he does not have a region or even a city to compare. He is just taking a whole country - India - and talking it up. Silicon valley is what it is not just because there is a secret formula which you can use to replicate. I am not even sure if there are places in other parts of US which are comparable to the ecosystem here.
These kind of articles probably make for good copy. But without first trying to understand what makes Silicon Valley unique even in US - they are nothing but misleading.
> I think there's something distinctly Indian about making 5 year plans
I suspect that it's more "human" than Indian.
A five year plan is short enough that it looks reasonable but long enough that you don't have to do anything for a while at the beginning. And, when the 5 years is over, few people remember what they were promised at the beginning, especially if you've started a couple of other five year plans in the interim.
The five year plan may be ideal for getting resources to not do anything useful.
India has definitely progressed in the last 5-6 years, but to emulate a startup ecosystem like the valley takes a lot more time. Fred Wilson had a good article on this the other day. Valley today is what it is because a lot of ventures and startups happened around the 70's. India is seeing that kind of growth only today.
I would say atleast 10 more years before you can have a Techcrunch 50 in India at the same level as it happens in US
I've worked for start-ups in Silicon Valley and for a large Internet company in Bangalore. From what I observed, a large part of the missing element were skills for new product development. The culture of development is rooted in large-scale projects. Large plans. Big budgets. Huge teams. As such, the type of product development skills for the quick-iteration that is needed for startup development isn't typical practice.
About a year back I was contacted by a CEO of an Indian development house who couldn't find enough talent to build social-media applications. He was trying to figure out if he should outsource his projects to San Francisco or Manhattan.
Hiring good talent is also a difficult for startups. It's difficult to convince families that an unknown company with upside potential is a better bet than a more well-known brand.
How many of you enjoy working with your Indian boss, respect him technically and as a person, and learn from him (not your Indian peers or subordinates, but boss)?
There are significant cultural, regulatory/legal, and policy issues to be solved or evolved before India can take on Silicon Valley.
Would you mind being more explicit, for those of us who don't have direct experience with what you're talking about?
At my last start-up, I had an Indian mentor, five years older than me, who had been through exactly what I was going through. I had tremendous respect for him, both “technically and as a person”. I learned more from him than I did from any of my non-Indian friends, co-workers, or bosses.
He's thinking of heading back to India to do a start-up there. I'm not Indian, but I'd love to spend a few years there, so I might go with him. As far as I can tell, he would make a great boss. Is there something I'm missing?
As an Indian, I am absolutely delighted to hear of your positive experience. Way to go for your mentor, and for you too.
I have never had an Indian boss myself (I work in the US). But I have quite a few friends who have had, or continue to have (and who confide in me with their opinions and issues). Naturally I also know a lot of Indians in various industry or academic positions in the US (developers, managers, directors, professors). Most of these people (not all) are technically sharp and quite smart. At the same time when it comes to treating people who work for them, most of them - I dare say nearly all of them - are amazingly selfish, self-centered, uncompromising, and hard headed. Tact or diplomacy is virtually non-existant. The world is centered around them, around what they have done in life, and around what they plan to do in the future. The end justifies the means, in many ways, for them. I would even say that backstabbing (for the next promotion in industry, or so called fame in academia) is the norm. These cultural issues are just the tip of the iceberg. Mind you, I have specifically not seen many of these issues with most American managers or profs, or among foreigners, say, among the Chinese.
As for state policy, legal, and regulatory issues, those are well known at least among us who have lived in India. It will take me a few more pages to describe :) Suffice it to say we have a long way to go. A very long way.
For the Indians reading these lines, before you call me a self-hating Desi, just take an hour and really think about your own life and upbringing and behavior, and those of other Indians in positions of power whom you know. Be honest with yourself, if only for one time in your life.
I am also of Indian ancestry and recognize absolutely nothing valid in your comment. Do you mean to say that the Chinese Communist party or the people who caused Enron and the recent collapse of the world financial system are more ethical?
Of course there are unethical people in every community, but there is zero evidence for your claim that said behavior is unique to Indians.
You are over reacting. I am talking about Indians in technical fields (industry and academia, engineering/software in particular). I am not talking about "creative" accountants at Enron, or the capitalist Chinese communists, or Wall Street hedge fund managers.
Anyway, we have a disagreement and I leave it at that.
I see this too, ie openly self centered Indian bosses.
However what I don't think you realise is that most
everyone in a position of power, Indian or otherwise, have similar motivations to make their own lives better using the people under them.
American and European bosses however manipulate you in a way where you actually
feel good about it.
An Indian boss is usually the most transparent and fir that
reason the easiest to manage once you get past your
frustration with having to work with him.
All in all I now prefer a boss whose manipulations are
blatantly apparent to one who can skillfully hide the same.
Oh I hope so. But I doubt India taking the lead in R&D and innovation. At least within the next 5 years. I don't see it happening. Except Zoho, you'll be hard pressed to name any other Indian startup doing extremely well.
Indian startup scene is pretty much like the Chinese startup scene. American success stories are ripped off and given a local twist. Because this ripping off is lucrative - but comes without a lot of startup risks.
All the big R&D hubs in India are run by Non-Indian companies (IBM, Intel, Microsoft)... thats not a coincidence. Indian companies are yet not at the stage of spending a lot on R&D (medicine and defense are 2 exceptions.)
Yes VC funding is increasing in India. But really - the biggest news I heard in the last year was a VC investing in a Netflix copycat. And Vinod Khosla investing in a micro-financing fund in India (copy cat of Grameen Bank etc...)
Vivek Wadhwa, like Rafiq Dossani and AnnaLee Saxenian before him, has been making too many wild extrapolations. Yes, a few start-up type Indian companies will innovate and progress. A larger number of large established companies are likely to take on global competitors successfully.
India taking on Silicon Valley? Won't happen for a long, long time.
- An Indian living in Silicon Valley.
I'm Indian and as much as it pains me to say this, its not gonna happen so fast nor easily. India is different culturally than a lot of other countries who have a good R & D environment. For example, if a guy or girl is not married by 35, it is usually frowned upon by the society. This usually leads to people playing it out safe in the 28-40 years era where its safer to work in a bigco with guaranteed income.
Pressures built up from social groups and joint families play a large part in this. Parents in India are usually more proud to say that their child is working for IBM or Microsoft rather than a small startup.
Also since I'm a resident of the country, I feel the urge in the people to compete but for needs more basic than in other countries. I'm not pointing to straight up poverty of farmers or anything you would see in a cover article of a big magazine, I'm talking about engineers wanting to have a stable job no matter what. They want a fixed house, they want a guarantee that they'll be eating from their own money in 6 months. Debts, specially credit cards are not the norm. There are scores of engineers who do not have a family that will be able to support them if they don't get external funding.
So for a multitude of reasons, sadly this won't happen. Not soon anyways. Feel the pulse of the engineers there (yes including me) and you'd know why R & D is on the backseat.
Well, you cite perfect examples of the parental and societal pressures that tend to work against founding a startup. But there is tremendous "underground" culture of startups in India. Case in point, have a look at http://pluggd.in/ or the startup event of India http://proto.in/
Agreed that Indian startups are still light years away from achieving the same _sophistication_ as the Silicon Valley's, but increasingly I am seeing more and more people jumping into getting their hands dirty. And given enough startups, purely from a statistical point of view, a few great startups will eventually emerge from India.
Unfortunately, I will have to agree with you that the state of R&D is poor, but it is just evolution. We started late and now have lots to catch up!
A very poor article , taking a few outliers and extrapolating that to make it sound like "India"/Bangalore is the next Silicon Valley is just non-sensical.
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[ 3.6 ms ] story [ 68.2 ms ] threadBanning TechCrunch is a dumber idea.
I guess same applies even more to startup hubs.
How are they going to make people go to India to start there?
My hunch is its going to take a lot more than 5 years.
I think there's something distinctly Indian about making 5 year plans, even if they sound ludicrous (when I lived there, many people told me that 'India would be a world superpower in five years'). I think it might have something to do with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-year_plans_of_India.
Entrepreneurship in India is on the rise now though. But my problem with the article is that the author is talking about taking on Silicon Valley, but he does not have a region or even a city to compare. He is just taking a whole country - India - and talking it up. Silicon valley is what it is not just because there is a secret formula which you can use to replicate. I am not even sure if there are places in other parts of US which are comparable to the ecosystem here.
These kind of articles probably make for good copy. But without first trying to understand what makes Silicon Valley unique even in US - they are nothing but misleading.
I suspect that it's more "human" than Indian.
A five year plan is short enough that it looks reasonable but long enough that you don't have to do anything for a while at the beginning. And, when the 5 years is over, few people remember what they were promised at the beginning, especially if you've started a couple of other five year plans in the interim.
The five year plan may be ideal for getting resources to not do anything useful.
I would say atleast 10 more years before you can have a Techcrunch 50 in India at the same level as it happens in US
About a year back I was contacted by a CEO of an Indian development house who couldn't find enough talent to build social-media applications. He was trying to figure out if he should outsource his projects to San Francisco or Manhattan.
There are significant cultural, regulatory/legal, and policy issues to be solved or evolved before India can take on Silicon Valley.
At my last start-up, I had an Indian mentor, five years older than me, who had been through exactly what I was going through. I had tremendous respect for him, both “technically and as a person”. I learned more from him than I did from any of my non-Indian friends, co-workers, or bosses.
He's thinking of heading back to India to do a start-up there. I'm not Indian, but I'd love to spend a few years there, so I might go with him. As far as I can tell, he would make a great boss. Is there something I'm missing?
I have never had an Indian boss myself (I work in the US). But I have quite a few friends who have had, or continue to have (and who confide in me with their opinions and issues). Naturally I also know a lot of Indians in various industry or academic positions in the US (developers, managers, directors, professors). Most of these people (not all) are technically sharp and quite smart. At the same time when it comes to treating people who work for them, most of them - I dare say nearly all of them - are amazingly selfish, self-centered, uncompromising, and hard headed. Tact or diplomacy is virtually non-existant. The world is centered around them, around what they have done in life, and around what they plan to do in the future. The end justifies the means, in many ways, for them. I would even say that backstabbing (for the next promotion in industry, or so called fame in academia) is the norm. These cultural issues are just the tip of the iceberg. Mind you, I have specifically not seen many of these issues with most American managers or profs, or among foreigners, say, among the Chinese.
As for state policy, legal, and regulatory issues, those are well known at least among us who have lived in India. It will take me a few more pages to describe :) Suffice it to say we have a long way to go. A very long way.
For the Indians reading these lines, before you call me a self-hating Desi, just take an hour and really think about your own life and upbringing and behavior, and those of other Indians in positions of power whom you know. Be honest with yourself, if only for one time in your life.
Of course there are unethical people in every community, but there is zero evidence for your claim that said behavior is unique to Indians.
Anyway, we have a disagreement and I leave it at that.
Indian startup scene is pretty much like the Chinese startup scene. American success stories are ripped off and given a local twist. Because this ripping off is lucrative - but comes without a lot of startup risks.
All the big R&D hubs in India are run by Non-Indian companies (IBM, Intel, Microsoft)... thats not a coincidence. Indian companies are yet not at the stage of spending a lot on R&D (medicine and defense are 2 exceptions.)
Yes VC funding is increasing in India. But really - the biggest news I heard in the last year was a VC investing in a Netflix copycat. And Vinod Khosla investing in a micro-financing fund in India (copy cat of Grameen Bank etc...)
India taking on Silicon Valley? Won't happen for a long, long time. - An Indian living in Silicon Valley.
Pressures built up from social groups and joint families play a large part in this. Parents in India are usually more proud to say that their child is working for IBM or Microsoft rather than a small startup.
Also since I'm a resident of the country, I feel the urge in the people to compete but for needs more basic than in other countries. I'm not pointing to straight up poverty of farmers or anything you would see in a cover article of a big magazine, I'm talking about engineers wanting to have a stable job no matter what. They want a fixed house, they want a guarantee that they'll be eating from their own money in 6 months. Debts, specially credit cards are not the norm. There are scores of engineers who do not have a family that will be able to support them if they don't get external funding.
So for a multitude of reasons, sadly this won't happen. Not soon anyways. Feel the pulse of the engineers there (yes including me) and you'd know why R & D is on the backseat.
Agreed that Indian startups are still light years away from achieving the same _sophistication_ as the Silicon Valley's, but increasingly I am seeing more and more people jumping into getting their hands dirty. And given enough startups, purely from a statistical point of view, a few great startups will eventually emerge from India.
Unfortunately, I will have to agree with you that the state of R&D is poor, but it is just evolution. We started late and now have lots to catch up!
Answer: Not in another 1000 years