As a long-time Pandora user, I can only say this: my F5 key is ready for the pre-order page! I can't wait for Pyra to arrive - and in the meantime, the Pandorae on my desk (I have two) are humming along, serving as always, in so many great ways ..
I've never owned (or even so much as seen in person) a Pandora. I've been paying attention to the development of the Pyra, however, and have sort of been considering getting one. What are some of the things that the original Pandora did that make you so excited for the new Pyra? Considering the cost breakdown in their forum saying it will probably be ~500 euros, what would be the reason for getting one instead of, say, a Surface 3 [or Pro version] or even a cheap laptop that could be dedicated to a Linux distribution? I'm honestly asking this, by the way. I'm curious about what aspects of the Pandora were so attractive to you and make you want the new Pyra. It's a decent chunk of change, so I wouldn't want to buy one as an impulse buy or something.
AFAIK, a cellular radio will be optional. So you might be able to replace a phone / tablet in some use cases. Such a thing, running Debian, Arch, etc. would be awesome.
Replacing my phone with the Pyra does sound awesome, actually. (I've been slowly beginning to reject closed-source ecosystems and desiring to live within open source recently, so having a phone be open down to the hardware is awesome) Do you know if there is going to be software for picking up phone calls and sms/mms? Or would something such as the N900 be better for something like that, and instead use the Pyra more as a pocket computer like other commenters have been suggesting?
> Do you know if there is going to be software for picking up phone calls and sms/mms?
Yes, AFAIK we can reuse all the (great) stack Nokia N900 were using. It's open and packaged.
> Or would something such as the N900 be better for something like that
I was very enthusiastic about the N900, but it's taking forever and the hardware is a lot less powerful. I currently use a Nokia N9 and the N900 would not be much of an upgrade. It struggles to run some applications. In contrast, the Pyra is very powerful. I could see myself using it for many years.
Well it's pocket-sized so it beats all the stuff you mentioned in terms of how small it is. On top of that, it has multiple expansion ports (HDMI, USB hosts) that you usually don't find on tablets or phones. It's open, you can install about any distro on it (and even Android). It has an included keyboard and gaming controls, making it a very versatile computer as well as a proper gaming console on the go (you won't get that many exclusives on it, but for emulation it's great).
What are other small form-factor "palmtop" computers with a hardware keyboard and good Linux (or other open-source Unix) compatibility?
One of the important points for me would be the ability to hold the screen reliably at a convenient angle; what I've seen for Surface or Android tablets is flimsy and only works for a very narrow range of angles. Maybe it would be wiser to invest in a phablet + a BT keyboard + a custom adjustable holder for both.
For other people the joysticks and the whole portable game machine look might be the selling point.
Also, I suppose the machine will be built with Linux compatibility in mind. I can imagine (but failed to find a mention on the website) that the hardware schematics and CAD drawings are also (going to be) open. This is also important: if I e.g. took a 5" phone and tried to find a Debian-based distro for it, what phone and what distro would I pick? Ubuntu seems to run on certain tablets, it seems; hopefully phones are also workable.
>Also, I suppose the machine will be built with Linux compatibility in mind.
Yes, but one more thing: there are coders in the Pandora/Pyra/emu scene who have no problems whatsoever with blowing away Linux and shipping their games as a bootable SD card that runs in raw mode. This is already/has-already happened all over the small-/elite-/tight-/indie- gamer scene, please keep in mind. Among one of the reasons Pandora (which is 4th or 5th-generation 'scene'-hardware) has been and Pyra will be (!) a success, is because its being done by passionate technologies who have overcome many other battles besides being able to write raw assembly for hardware they designed, built, and produced themselves.
;)
>Ubuntu seems to run on certain tablets, it seems; hopefully phones are also workable.
The best thing to do is just trust the team, and run the official linux distro - to be based, indeed on Debian/Ubuntu (I think, could be wrong) - on the Pyra.
The Pandora is running Angstrom, which has its roots way back to things like the Sharp Zaurus 5500 and so on, which means its sort of built for small, light, and efficient. It has its own package management/distro, etc.
So as an OS, its supported the Pandora quite well; mine boot directly to the PND-Manager (PND is the 'app bundle' of Pandora) which shows me everything - whats installed, what can be updated, what it does, etc. My kids just use it like an iPad. Everything is free/open/cool/elite too, just browse the http://repo.openpandora.org/ repo and you'll see for yourself; some gems in there. To be running in my pocket? Hell yeah.
But anyway, Angstrom supports a very healthy app eco-system on the Pandora, it must be said.
I think the team wants to move to standard Debian for the out-of-the-box on Pyra, although I could be wrong on that; its such a vibrant scene I sometimes go a little blind/daft trying to keep up with Evildragon, ptitSeb, notaz () and the team are up to ..
Go check out all the great apps in the repo: http://repo.openpandora.org/ - just the variety and diversity of the apps is awesome, and you can't beat the price (most everything is free/open source). The small/limited market so far means that the community of developers are very open and free and accessible - there are some real heroes in the OpenPandora/Pyra scene. Knowing the guy (EvilDragon) behind the hardware project is awesome too - he's approachable and real.
The Pandora itself is a decent little Linux workstation with all the pickings from the Linux eco-system that you could imagine, with some extra stuff too - the recent port of Half Life (http://pandoralive.info/?p=5029) is an example of the sort of fun stuff that's showing up for the machine.
Generally, its just a great all-round workstation, with a gaming focus that works, somehow.
Can you expand upon the comment about it being a decent workstation? One of the main reasons I carry a laptop around with me (current a Macbook Air) is so I can code on the go, among other things that have started to end up being central to my computer (financing with ledger, most recently) One of the main things that got me interested in the Pandora/Pyra in the first place was an article about its exceptional battery life that someone was able to make use of while stuck in a close-down airport with no WiFi, and how they were able to replicate a small game on the device in a Lua engine. (which was finished on their Macbook, which had very little charge) Is it suitable for doing some coding (such as learning Haskell) on the go in general, or dealing with text files for financing/command line applications? Being able to input new lines into Ledger on the go would be an appealing use case for me.
I believe that was me (http://brainfisheatfishbrain.com/2015/03/writing-a-game-with...) and yes the battery life, the portability and the complete Linux distro is why I have it always with me. And the Pyra after this. Haskell is working on it but without ghci last I know. It is an excellent device and really very different from the competing options. For instance you can run on full screen monitor/tv or, as I recently tried, use an iPad as monitor using TightVNC. The luxury of a full linux distro with so much battery life does it for me. Oh yes and the ability to use SD cards as well as USB sticks. Very much a niche this device but I will buy one first chance I get.
Edit: Once you get used to it for me it very suitable to do coding, debugging etc. The only thing I have bad experience is web browsers; besides Lynx it is just not fast and big enough for that kind of thing. Although looking up coding issues work fine, it's not for general reading the web. But then again; I do have my phone for that (and sometimes my iPad).
Its quite suitable, from the perspective of software, to use the Pandora as a normal Linux workstation (albeit, ARM) .. pretty much most of what you'd expect will run - compilers, editors, etc.
Physically, its not something I'd use for 8 hours before plugging into an external monitor and keyboard/mouse combination - okay for quick sessions on the train, but you'll get pretty cramped after a while ..
Been waiting for this. I had been thinking of picking up an OpenPandora but it seems like they aren't being made anymore, which is understandable with the Pyra coming out.
I've been following this project for five or six years now. Fascinating stuff that EvilDragon has been doing, and his determination and perseverance is admirable. (CircuitCo, who makes BeagleBoards, screwed ED/Craig out of 200k euro...)
Jeez, these guys are still around? I ordered an original Pandora somewhere around... October 2008? They never shipped it. $300, plus an additional $100 later at some point, and I never got anything. Kinda kills any interest in further developments.
People are used to this kind of thing by now, but this was pre-Kickstarter... And a lot worse considering other people in the same batch as me did get what they paid for.
Not sure what happened at the beginning but the past years the shipping and support has been great. I can see this would kill your interest; don't think EvilDragon does that to anyone though.
If I get what you mean, yeah, it was through Craig. EvD said he was going to help the leftovers, but all he said he could offer me was an RMA'd unit, IIRC (or pay an additional $300 to get an upgraded one).
27 comments
[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 61.9 ms ] threadAFAIK, a cellular radio will be optional. So you might be able to replace a phone / tablet in some use cases. Such a thing, running Debian, Arch, etc. would be awesome.
Yes, AFAIK we can reuse all the (great) stack Nokia N900 were using. It's open and packaged.
> Or would something such as the N900 be better for something like that
I was very enthusiastic about the N900, but it's taking forever and the hardware is a lot less powerful. I currently use a Nokia N9 and the N900 would not be much of an upgrade. It struggles to run some applications. In contrast, the Pyra is very powerful. I could see myself using it for many years.
ANd the community is just FUN.
One of the important points for me would be the ability to hold the screen reliably at a convenient angle; what I've seen for Surface or Android tablets is flimsy and only works for a very narrow range of angles. Maybe it would be wiser to invest in a phablet + a BT keyboard + a custom adjustable holder for both.
For other people the joysticks and the whole portable game machine look might be the selling point.
Also, I suppose the machine will be built with Linux compatibility in mind. I can imagine (but failed to find a mention on the website) that the hardware schematics and CAD drawings are also (going to be) open. This is also important: if I e.g. took a 5" phone and tried to find a Debian-based distro for it, what phone and what distro would I pick? Ubuntu seems to run on certain tablets, it seems; hopefully phones are also workable.
They should be open at some point, but it's not sure if that will be the case right at launch.
Yes, but one more thing: there are coders in the Pandora/Pyra/emu scene who have no problems whatsoever with blowing away Linux and shipping their games as a bootable SD card that runs in raw mode. This is already/has-already happened all over the small-/elite-/tight-/indie- gamer scene, please keep in mind. Among one of the reasons Pandora (which is 4th or 5th-generation 'scene'-hardware) has been and Pyra will be (!) a success, is because its being done by passionate technologies who have overcome many other battles besides being able to write raw assembly for hardware they designed, built, and produced themselves.
;)
>Ubuntu seems to run on certain tablets, it seems; hopefully phones are also workable.
The best thing to do is just trust the team, and run the official linux distro - to be based, indeed on Debian/Ubuntu (I think, could be wrong) - on the Pyra.
The Pandora is running Angstrom, which has its roots way back to things like the Sharp Zaurus 5500 and so on, which means its sort of built for small, light, and efficient. It has its own package management/distro, etc.
So as an OS, its supported the Pandora quite well; mine boot directly to the PND-Manager (PND is the 'app bundle' of Pandora) which shows me everything - whats installed, what can be updated, what it does, etc. My kids just use it like an iPad. Everything is free/open/cool/elite too, just browse the http://repo.openpandora.org/ repo and you'll see for yourself; some gems in there. To be running in my pocket? Hell yeah.
But anyway, Angstrom supports a very healthy app eco-system on the Pandora, it must be said.
I think the team wants to move to standard Debian for the out-of-the-box on Pyra, although I could be wrong on that; its such a vibrant scene I sometimes go a little blind/daft trying to keep up with Evildragon, ptitSeb, notaz () and the team are up to ..
( - http://boards.openpandora.org/user/76-notaz/)
The Pandora itself is a decent little Linux workstation with all the pickings from the Linux eco-system that you could imagine, with some extra stuff too - the recent port of Half Life (http://pandoralive.info/?p=5029) is an example of the sort of fun stuff that's showing up for the machine.
Generally, its just a great all-round workstation, with a gaming focus that works, somehow.
Edit: Once you get used to it for me it very suitable to do coding, debugging etc. The only thing I have bad experience is web browsers; besides Lynx it is just not fast and big enough for that kind of thing. Although looking up coding issues work fine, it's not for general reading the web. But then again; I do have my phone for that (and sometimes my iPad).
Physically, its not something I'd use for 8 hours before plugging into an external monitor and keyboard/mouse combination - okay for quick sessions on the train, but you'll get pretty cramped after a while ..
People are used to this kind of thing by now, but this was pre-Kickstarter... And a lot worse considering other people in the same batch as me did get what they paid for.
http://www.dragonboxapp.com/