As a math professor, how can I help grad students find nonacademic jobs?
I am a math professor at a second-tier state university, and many of our Ph.D. students decide (rather sensibly, in my opinion) to avoid the academic job crunch and instead to seek positions in industry.
I would like to help them, but I am at a loss as to how -- I don't have much in the way of useful advice or contacts.
The local job market is not very good, so I'm interested in what I might be able to do to help students with a national search. Any suggestions?
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[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 46.1 ms ] threadThere are a few places that can help your students find jobs, like the ones listed here: http://www.ams.org/profession/employment-services/employment... But once you look at the listings you'll see that they are mostly academic job listings.
In general, the companies willing to hire pure math people are large companies that have a lot of money to spend on developing new things. So I would give basic advice to your students to apply to large companies. Small companies want a more rounded person and math PhDs don't often come with enough practical skills (unless they are good at programming or did applied math).
The US military also employs a lot of mathematicians and if that fits in with their moral values and they can get a security clearance (read: not foreign and no criminal record) then there is some decent money to be made there. There are a decent number of non-defense government jobs out there as well, but are usually in some applied field like economics/finance or statistics.
But really, as a professor, if you aren't able to hook your students up with a head hunter or personal industry contacts, they may be better off getting job help from someone else. If you have no industry experience yourself, the best option may be to just keep from offering any advice in the hopes of not steering your students in the wrong direction.
Our undergraduate CS and math majors are not strong (and the local job market even more so), and I suspect that our career services office has adapted accordingly.
Maybe some could use maths but don't know it yet.
That might be an interesting idea. Might go nowhere, but could be worth trying.
(After googling): Number theory. So obviously NSA is an option. They hire grad students for the summer, encourage your students to do this if it interests them. Also encourage students with programming chops to spend a summer doing an internship at a big firm that owns their own low-level compute stack, which will necessarily include crypto components. Intel, Apple, Microsoft, GPU manufacturers, ARM, Broadcom, etc. It may be hard to get your first few students in, but once you place a few and get introduced to their bosses you'll have contacts and it'll be easier.
Cast a net outside your field, too. Some students are studying number theory because it's interesting, but aren't wedded to doing it forever. It's worth talking with them about what they're really looking for and nudging them to take some CS / stats / finance courses if they have wider interests.
Finally, as a former math grad student who left to go to industry 10 years ago, thanks for even thinking about this. Most professors don't, and you're already doing your students good.
I'll send you an email with some more suggestions.
Indeed, my first Ph.D. student was very much a self-starter, wanted very much to work for the NSA, and landed an internship and then a full-time gig. He asked for rec letters from me, which I was very proud to write, but he basically did everything himself.
>It may be hard to get your first few students in, but once you place a few and get introduced to their bosses you'll have contacts and it'll be easier.
An interesting thought, thanks. That said, I will probably end up advising around 10-20 students over the course of my career (and that's if I'm lucky! Most around here advise fewer, our program is small).
If they're in academia, ask about their industry connections. If they're in industry, ask if they can help you. If you can't get direct contacts, at least find out what skills and knowledge is being looked for, and what options exist.
It's very easy to forget the power of an 'alumni' network. Who we know is often our greatest asset.
This place is very, very much not Silicon Valley.
But seriously, and this is going to sound arrogant, but oh well -- you should consider the ethics of taking 5+ years and an enormous opportunity cost (probably easily $0.5mm) to train students for a job they aren't going to get. Even if students are focused on math, there are areas of math where industry wants phd trained students: applied stats and optimization both spring to mind.
Or more seriously, advise them to do something other than getting a PhD, such as getting a Master's in 2-3 years and taking a couple of computer courses along the way.
Not arrogant at all. But --- these students decided to pursue a Ph.D. when they applied to graduate school, i.e. before they met me. And if they approached me about writing a thesis, then they know full well that their thesis topic won't translate directly to industry. (Applied stats and optimization are outside my expertise.)
I most certainly don't want to be that asshole who tries to intimidate Ph.D. students into not leaving when they're unhappy, or into seeking academic jobs when they'd rather do something else.
But, I don't see it as my job to discourage students from following in my footsteps.
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http://www.reddit.com/r/math/search?q=industry+job&restrict_...
http://www.reddit.com/r/physics/search?q=industry+job&restri...
also networking skills, go to lots of campus presentations and interviews
Even if you can't personally offer any assistance, being willing to discuss a non-academic future lets your advisees know that it's OK to seek alternatives. That was definitely not the case when I was working on my doctorate, and I stuck around for a couple years longer than I would have if the alt-ac track hadn't been considered a failure.
find companies that are interesting for them, then contact them. ask them for their input on this. most'll likely suggest cold applications, but it may grab someones attention
Go to the Advanced search feature on Linkedin. Sort for alumni from your "second-tier state university" with current titles of CEO, CTO, CIO, CFO, COO, VP. My hunch is that very quickly you'll have a robust target list of influential decision-makers spread nationwide, even overseas.
Next reach out to these people individually. (*Yes, it's time consuming, it's worth it.) Try to have a live phone/Skype conversation with them. Make a friend; explain your mission to help Ph.Ds find jobs, ask for their advice. BTW, this is how you tap into the hidden jobs market.
Bonus, you will grow your own personal network & broader university community influence in turn. Additional food for thought on this process, read Adam Grant's book Give & Take >http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16158498-give-and-take