Ask HN: How to cope with depression

69 points by lotsofthrows ↗ HN
I'm struggling with depression, and don't know how to manage it.

Just to get my background out of the way :

I'm a programmer and have been severely under performing at work (to the point of almost being fired), and routinely question whether or not I deserve to be alive. As a result of my difficulties, I've begun seeing a therapist and psychiatrist. Both feel that I should be on anti depressants, and I am not opposed to this.

Short of medication, however, they haven't really offered any strategies I can implement. Perhaps that will come later, but for now I was hoping to hear about what may have worked for others. All the logical advice (exercise, go to sleep on time, live a healthy lifestyle) are things that I struggle to find the motivation for. Perhaps the medication will help in that department. However, I'm concerned they will dull my focus (which is a bit silly, considering I can't focus at all right now).

edit :

I am sincerely grateful for all the thoughts that have been shared. I've read every post in this thread. A few follow ups :

1. I understand the limitations of asking for advice about mental health online, and I want to reassure any/everyone concerned that I will not make any treatment decisions without the input of the specialists I'm seeing.

2. Related to the above, reading about the (mostly successful / positive) experience others have had with medication has been very reassuring. I did have some lingering skepticism about SSRI's (which may or may not have come through in my original post), and I am very glad to hear that medication has worked well for others. Maybe it's a bit silly to have an opinion partially validated by a peer group, but so it goes.

3. This is probably as emotional as I've been in weeks : reading through the responses here makes me feel like I'm not alone. Thank you, very, very much.

122 comments

[ 16.7 ms ] story [ 243 ms ] thread
Take the meds; if you aren't able to feel like you can do the other things, your depression might be too severe for those to help anyway. I didn't realize I was depressed for a number of years, until my wife forced me to go. I am now on medication and I feel much improved.

The wrong medicine will dull your focus (I had a very bad sedative reaction to Lexapro) but the right ones will make you feel more normal. My work is the same as it was before, except I am happier now.

> The wrong medicine will dull your focus (I had a very bad sedative reaction to Lexapro) but the right ones will make you feel more normal. My work is the same as it was before, except I am happier now.

I'm really glad to hear that. It's surprisingly reassuring.

Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to decide Lexapro wasn't right for you?

Three days, and it was the introductory dose as well. I struggled to stay awake on Day 3 and couldn't recall things from my mind. It was bad. If you can avoid driving while figuring things out, that would be awesome.

I'm now taking Prozac which is way way better for me.

The important thing is that you have to keep trying at it; finding the right medicine and right dose will take time, but at least in my case (and it seems like others here too), there is a right formula. It's rough going for a while, but like I said before, I just feel more like the normal me, not like the angry, irritated, anxious me. And I have to believe that would have ended up a net positive productivity wise.

You've gotten a lot of good advice here, and I just wanted to chime in on a related point to this--different anti-depressants may be more effective for you at different stages of your treatment. If you start on Lexapro/Prozac/Paxil, and it works great, but after six months you start to feel like it's not as effective, definitely talk to your doctor about looking at different meds, even other SSRI's. There are subtle differences in how they work that can make a difference (I'm not a doctor or bio guy, but they affect different receptors differently, even when they are primarily aimed at serotonin). Depression isn't a monolithic problem (it feels like it, but there can be multiple factors feeding into it), so as you do the talk therapy and the drugs your equilibrium between maladaptive cognitions, chemical imbalances, relationship and work patterns, etc. can shift, just be aware of how you're feeling (and if differently, how) and keep your doctor apprised. Also, therapy can be intimidating because you're talking about problems that feel insurmountable while you're depressed--but just spill it; they get less insurmountable once you've expressed them. Sometimes just hearing yourself say something out loud can make it obvious what the issue is, or how you could look at it differently.

Good luck, it's worth the effort. Something I read that I thought was useful to keep in mind when dealing with this stuff: you're not depressed because the world is shit; you think the world is shit because you're depressed.

If you are suicidal call the National suicide prevention hotline. 1-800-273-8255
This is probably not a good place to discuss this particular issue.
There is a frustrating mix of terrible advice and good advice. Is that why you'd recommend not getting advice here, or is there some other reason?

(I upvoted you.)

Oh, absolutely -- I always worry when someone who's having emotional trouble seeks out the greater Internet for advice.

There are some very good reasons why it takes a high level of training to counsel people.

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I'm not taking direct action based on any comments here. Yours is an understandable concern, though.
I don't have any immediate answers, but I did want to quickly thank you for having the courage to reach out, rather than just suffering silently. This is something with which many of us struggle on a regular basis.
thank you. that's kind of you to say, and very reassuring. I honestly felt really apprehensive and guilty / self centered / narcissistic for posting here.

> This is something with which many of us struggle on a regular basis.

it certainly feels that way at times :(

Take the meds.

Expect this to be a journey - you have to try several and you may end up on a combination (I take four). If you're dozy at work as for some ritalin to help. I hope you have health insurance :( Also, if you go through 'high' periods you're not depressed, you have bipolar 2.

Take the meds. This shit literally saved my life.

To make that a little clearer:

'Bipolar' is a condition with depressive and manic states. Low lows, and high highs.

'Bipolar Type 2' is a condition with depressive and hypomanic states. Low lows, and just feeling particularly good. People who experience hypomania without depression often don't complain about it / see it as a problem.

> I hope you have health insurance :(

That's honestly one of the only reasons I haven't quit my job. I'm performing so poorly, and am so intensely ashamed of it, but don't want to go on COBRA while unemployed.

> Take the meds. This shit literally saved my life.

Thanks for sharing. It really has been reassuring to hear they've genuinely helped others.

I believe you can go on cheaper individual or ACA healthcare throughout the year if you have a change in "life circumstance". Highly likely to be much cheaper than COBRA.
I was in, or am in, a very similar spot. I've struggled with depression to the point where I got almost nothing done with work. I had the same fear you did about dulled focus, but you're right: it is silly to worry about that if you aren't productive already.

A few months ago I went on Prozac. I still struggle with focus and getting work done and there are some other negative side effects, but crucially I am able to think more clearly about the situation. I'm now working on strategies myself to get myself to a better place long term.

I'd advise taking the medication -- it's unlikely to put you in a worse spot, and very likely to put you in a better spot. From that better spot you will see more avenues you can pursue.

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Switching cities / jobs helped me a lot.
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> they haven't really offered any strategies I can implement

I think I made two mistakes the first time I sought help:

* I stayed on the first medication I tried for far too long

* I stayed with my first therapist/psychiatrist for far too long

My new doctors are far more helpful and push me further than my old team ever did. If it's not clicking, don't give up, but maybe see if there's someone else that might be better for you.

> I stayed with my first therapist/psychiatrist for far too long

This is meaningful to me. I'm still seeing the first therapist / psychiatrist I sought out, and the inertial barrier of seeking out an entirely new set of professionals is kind of daunting. Knowing that this could potentially have a real impact at least means I'll probably be open to consider switching if I really feel like it's necessary.

Don't seek medical advice online, it's too generalized. Listen to and discuss these problems with your doctors and family.
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Take some hallucinogenic drugs (look them up on erowid first). Write some poetry. Make some art. Stay up late. Get drunk. Purge your demons. Call your parents, call your best friend, vent. If you like to be alone be alone. If you like people go find some people.

Watch some art films. Chain smoke cigarettes. Go for a walk. Play hooky from work. Go thrift shopping and buy yourself a new outfit. Plot and scheme on things that you actually want.

Don't listen to any of this advice. Do something drastic.

I get that you're trying to be edgy, but none of those are full-on substitutes for the the results of evidence-backed medical trials. They are great in conjunction with standard pharmacological and therapeutic approaches, but might end up pushing someone already on the brink further into the abyss of depression. They might not have good familial relationships or friends to fall back on, or they might have issues with non-hallucinogenic drugs as it is.
I feel like his point was that OP needs to make an effort to find something that works and that no amount of online advice will likely help.
Thank you.
You owe it to yourself to take the meds. Keep trying different ones until you find what works for you. This is what I was finally able to do and I've gotten my life back. If your current psychiatrist doesn't seem to help, seek out a new one. You are meant to live a fulfilling life with love and happiness. And don't worry about getting off the meds. Your body needs them as much as it needs food and air. Enable yourself to have what you need. I pray you find your way out of the darkness. : )
I'm not trying to be edgy at all. I have anxiety disorder and personally suffered through depression. I spent years on medications that didn't work.

Sometimes you can't fix depression with pills. There are alot of mights in this situation because none of us know what OP is actually going through.

I would kindly ask that you consider my advice from personal experience and not downplay it so much. I never suggested OP not take medication or seek out a doctor, I was just giving other, more personal advice that may help them in their situation.

>They might not have good familial relationships or friends to fall back on, or they might have issues with non-hallucinogenic drugs as it is.

I listed a bunch of different things they can do, with ors and ands all throughout. Also, hallucinogenic drugs have very strong evidence backed-trials in their favor. Of course as long as you do it in a safe situation.

I was not, in any way trying to be edgy. It's awfully offensive that you and anyone who down-voted me would think that. The guy is already a programmer, he's clearly not benefiting from the ultra-safe sterile environment that the HN crowd constantly promotes.

Sometimes you have to get dirty. Sometimes you have to make mistakes. Sometimes you have to drop shrooms and find yourself in the middle of someone else's living room dance rave party.

Maybe it's not for OP, maybe it is. Maybe none of the other advice in this thread will work for them, either. But regardless my advice is just as fucking valid as anyone elses. Coming from the perspective of a person who, as I said, went through this, still goes through this at times, and who medication has had little effect on.

But, if you want to solve his depression with condescending suggestions of medical help and medications, back that up with medical journals and statistics, that's your prerogative.

//edit Also for more clarity, when I said "don't listen to this advice" I was actually referring not only to my comment, but everyone's. I wrote that when there was like 2 comments on this thread. I'm not trying to demean anyone else's opinion. Why would I do that? I'm not an asshole.

It's taken me a while to write back, because new HN accounts are severely rate limited.

The spirit of your post(s) is well taken. Also, I watched the shit out of the magic school bus (which is, at least, what "sometimes you have to get dirty. sometimes you have to make mistakes" reminded me of)

My apologies for the dismissive tone in my first post. I can't and didn't downvote any of your posts. I misinterpreted your "don't listen to this advice" to be the strict opposite of what your explanation was: "don't listen to everyone else, but DO listen to me." I too (as many of us have) have been in similar shoes re: depression and anxiety. Finding what works for each of us as individuals is the most important thing. I agree with the potential therapeutic benefits of hallucinogens, but I also am a firm believer in the trial-backed science of medicine and therapy as the first and best line of defense. "Ultra-safe sterile" or not, it's the best answer for the broadest range of people. Call me a Vulcan, but that's what I'd suggest for people that are on "the edge", instead of "getting dirty" or "make mistakes", both of which might help, but also might let people slide further into the abyss. At least with medicine and their "black-box" labels, you are under the monitoring of a trained professional that can catch and negative side-effects of the medication. Best of luck on your quest to get and stay better.
Thank you for the response. No hard feelings. :)
* Seek specialist

* Medication helps

* Logical - go for a run - blood circulation, oxygen, endorphins - cannot go wrong with that!

* Slightly related - http://www.startupsanonymo.us/

Take the meds. Don't worry about focus at this point... meds are your way out of this situation. It is hard to see light at the end of the tunnel before you start taking them, but once you do, try to find hobbies that relax you and make you happy. Keep working with your therapist and psychiatrist to find the root cause... sometimes it is hard to find it when you simply can't talk about certain subjects because of the way you feel. Don't give up. You can overcome this and you will.
I'm an Army veteran that was diagnosed with PTSD in 2010 after a particularly shit deployment to Afghanistan. I've also battled with depression my entire life. Name an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety pill and I've probably been on it at one point in my life. They definitely help you. Conversely a good therapist is also extremely helpful. They can help you find directions that are away from the meds. I've currently been off meds for about 1.5 years and it's been great, but it takes a lot of focus and quite literally years of therapy to get there.

TLDR: stay on the meds; do what the therapist says to do, no matter how dumb or inconsequential it may seem; exercise.

Have you tried MDMA-assisted therapy?

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/12/03/health/ecstasy-ptsd-3/

Incase it was never available to you, it should be soon. DEA approves study using MDMA for anxiety in seriously ill patients (Mar 17, 2015):

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/3/17/clinical-tri...

I appreciate the info, but I currently hold (and use) a security clearance. All these MDMA / cannabis / LSD-25 assisted therapies are doing great things for veterans, but when it comes time to fill out that SF-86 in a few years, it would bone me.

Still, I appreciate the info.

Thank you for this comment (and your service).
thank you for sharing your experience. it sounds like you've struggled more than I have, and I admire your persistence in making it through.
You will too dude/dudette. Keep your head up.
Take the meds. That's what helped me to stabilize. Expect that you need to try multiple anti depressants before you find one that helps you. Therapy comes after that. For me what you call logical advice didn't work until the medication kicked in.
If you don't exercise then now would be a great time to start. Endorphins feel great and sometimes the intensity of physical activity is a good way to hit the reset switch on your brain.
You don't have to see the medications as a permanent thing from the outset. You may have to take the meds to give yourself the focus/ability to start changing your other habits. After that point, you might be able to build up enough momentum that you'll be able to work on yourself in other ways and eventually not need the meds anymore. But depressed people often need that initial boost to help move them out of the cycle.

Also, not to argue against "depression" or meds or anything, but... sometimes, especially for people in the first decade of their working career, we might be trying to convince ourselves we "should" be enjoying our career circumstances even if we just don't. Those shoulds can certainly exacerbate depression. I'm just saying that your underperformance might also be an indication that you don't like your job, which is totally ok.

Finally, one of the simplest harmless things you can do to start, that you might be able to motivate yourself for, is drink a lot more water, and take a B vitamin every day.

But yeah, main thrust - take the meds, trusting that you may find it easier to motivate yourself to take other healthy steps in the future.

> we might be trying to convince ourselves we "should" be enjoying our career circumstances even if we just don't. Those shoulds can certainly exacerbate depression. I'm just saying that your underperformance might also be an indication that you don't like your job, which is totally ok.

This is fair. My work has probably exacerbated my difficulties. In the past, work (or programming in general) has functioned as an outlet - something to focus on. At the moment, it's probably making things worse for various reasons. I will need to change my job soon, but feel the need to fix myself before I make any new commitments.

Take the meds. The meds get you to a level of normalcy. The underlying issues causing depression can then be dealt with. But once you are diagnosed with severe depression its rare for your dr to take you off of the meds. Speaking from personal experience I have been on 20 mg of Lexapro for 10 years. When I am off for 4 months my depression comes roaring back so I stay on it and don't experiment with my brain anymore.
Take the meds. Best money I've ever spent.
Side effects of anti-depressants exist, but not everyone gets them, and they're mild compared to actually being depressed. Depression is more distracting, debilitating, and hazardous than the treatments for it. If you have depression, starting medication is a positive-expected-value move. If your first medication doesn't work or has unacceptable side effects, then your doctor will gladly change it. Generally, treatment starts with the drugs with the fewest side effects (e.g. Lexapro) and higher doses or or more blunt drugs are used if needed. You're not going to end up on a high dose of Prozac against your will.

Also, many of the harsh and weird side effects of SSRIs (the yawns, the sweats, and the weird-ass dreams in the first week) are temporary and doctors will usually prescribe anti-anxiety medication if those become an acute issue.

You need to do something about this. Medication's a good start, because it will give you the initial reboot that will make you able to exercise and regularize your sleep. After you're well, the next job is to stay well and get into an exercise routine and start eating healthier foods. Right now, though, medication is the best source for that initial "push", and it helps many people. Once you're out of the depression, establish healthy habits to maximize the probability that you stay out of it.

Also, you shouldn't question whether you "deserve to be alive" because of one job. Most people have been fired at least once. Shit happens. If your depression is interfering with your ability to perform at work, then disclose the health issue before you end up on a PIP. It won't prevent you from getting fired but it will increase the likelihood that you get a severance if you are fired.

Good luck! Depression sucks but many of us have been there and gotten out of it.

30 minutes of Exercise + 10 minutes Meditation every morning did wonders for me. Finding the motivation to get started will be a constant struggle, but once you establish the habit for a few weeks it gets much easier. Start small if you have to, but do it every day -- building the habit is the key. If this doesn't work, or you can't muster the motivation to do it, then the meds are probably worth a try.
I dropped exercise for the past year, worst mistake I've made. Everything changed, my productivity, my happiness, my stress increased, etc. Now I'm forcefully pushing it back upon myself and as a result I feel better, I'm getting things done at an amplified level at work and at home. Once you get in that rhythm of having it you don't realize how important it really is.
Before going to work? what time does it make you wake up then? Well I'm not a morning person
Timing is much less important than the activities themselves, but I think mornings are most desirable because anything positive you accomplish in that period will build positive momentum for the rest of your day. Hal Elrod's book The Morning Miracle discusses this concept a bit more depth, if you're interested.

I do my exercise first thing in the morning. I wake up, hydrate, brush my teeth, put on workout clothes, and I try to be out the door by 6:30AM. I never thought I was a morning person either, but my body adapted pretty quickly.

1. Try the meds. View them as a crutch on your road to recovery, not a cure all. You have to retrain your mind to see the positives in life. The drugs may help, they might not, but at the end of the day you are the one that determines if you are happy. 2. Try mindfulness meditation. TL;DR is go to quiet spot, close your eyes, breath in and out, and focus on just breathing deeply. Longer link at the bottom. Lots of good books out there too. 3. Everyone dies eventually, so there is no need to rush there. Push yourself to enjoy life, even if it if hard.

Good luck

WARNING:

Do not seek any advice from anonymous people on the web about depression, ever, you're seeing a therapist, that's a good start, If you're not satisfied with your current doctor, go see another one.

I dunno, nine out of ten appear to be telling him/her to go see professionals. Seems like good advice to me.
Here maybe, however you don't know if that person posted other messages on other forums. This is a general advice and the ONLY one people should be giving him. Saying anything else might put him in danger.
I don't know why seeking a connection even with anonymous people online is necessarily bad. There are a lot of people who have struggled with depression, sometimes hearing from people dealing with the same struggles can help.
> I don't know why seeking a connection even with anonymous people online is necessarily bad.

How many of these people are professionals? depression IS a mental illness, and must receive professional care, not random opinions by people who did not make a proper diagnosis of that person's condition. Finally listening to someone is different from advising him about how to get better. I'm all for listening but not for people playing therapists.

Seeking a connection is fine, but there are already people posting terrible advice - things that we know are not a treatment for depression as if they are a treatment for depression.

It'd be a shame if OP read all the stuff about exercise and thought it was going to be a cure. We know exercise is no better than nothing at all as a treatment for depression.

There's a joke in here somewhere
This is an understandable perspective. I'm not taking direct action based on these comments.