Ask HN: I hate my new job, Need some advice
I'm a PHP developer with about 3-4 years experience , living and working in UK,
About 2 months ago i had to move to Manchester, because of a personal situation, so i had to leave my job ( which i regret now ), I was the lead developer of a high exposure web application and i enjoyed what i was doing over there , architecture design, coding, testing, monitoring ..., I was really motivated, keep myself updated everyday, learning new things everyweek and use them in projects right away.
Anyway when i moved to Manchester i had many job offers ( hard to find developers in UK i guess ) but i accepted a digital agency offer ( without actually knowing what i have to do everyday ) , Salary is about average ( £26k ) but i don't like my job at all, creating pointless websites for clients, jumping from Magento to Wordpress to Drupal and now, I'm not only developer, I have to do some designing ( which isn't my thing ) and integrate them into CMSes.
I'm doing the junior developer's job now and its hurting me, I feel pain everyday i want to go to work, and i just want to kill time to finish the day and count the days waiting for weekend to come ...
I know I should have done more research before joining this company, its my own fault to put myself in misery, I feel bad for this guys , They have probably spent a few grand for recruitment agencies fees to hire me and if I want to leave them and it takes them another month or two to find a replacement for me.
I have good amount of job offers , But I don't know what do to now, I hate my job and I feel bad to leave them, What would you do if you were in my place ?
61 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 81.5 ms ] threadSurely a few months of bad work isn't the end of the world and you are learning more about what you actually want to be doing. Salary isn't amazing, so you could certainly do better. If you really care about your employer you could talk to them about your woes, but do they have anything more interesting to offer?
Best start looking for a contract job now and you can find out whether you like the work first without committing to a longer stay.
Yeah I'm permanent , at-least it gives me a bit of peace of mind if they haven't paid full cash to recruitment agency. I'm going to talk with my manager today but as you said I don't think they have anything more interesting to offer.
Hand in your notice now and move. You can probably not even mention this role in interviews, because your previous long-term role is still recent. If you find another long-term job you like, you can just leave this as a small gap on your CV, or explain it away as some traveling time, sabbatical, etc. Leaving after six or twelve months is a bit harder to explain away and looks more like job-hopping.
Obviously be as nice as you can about this, offer to help find / interview your replacement, etc, and hopefully they'll return the favour by letting you get to interviews during the day and being flexible with your notice period.
Mr. Sivers's answer: "Quit now. If your heart's not in it, get out. Be honest with [...]. You're not helping them or your self by doing something you're not excited about. :-)"
Don't be afraid to quit.
I don't know anything about UK employment laws, but at least here in Finland the notice period is capped based on length of employment (e.g. only a month if you've been less 2 years, up to 6 months for 10-year careers).
Don't worry about recruitment fees. They don't get paid before you complete your probation period.
Basically, if you're not happy, find something that makes you happy. Otherwise, your days may be numbered anyway, but not at your choosing.
If not, take another job and leave now. Don't hang on, be willing to help find your replacement, be honest and up front.
If there is a chance that you can take control and change the job then go to your boss and say what you think should happen to make the company stronger, better, and offer to help them do that.
If they don't enter a conversation with you about it: leave.
If nothing seems to be happening within days: leave. Accept no excuse.
But if things improve, you've made your job better and helped the company.
But don't feel bad about leaving. You've done some work, you've been paid for that work at the agreed rate, and so you owe them nothing.
Be prepared to try to take control of your own work, and your own future. You are of value - the job offers make that clear - and if your current company doesn't agree, then agree to part.
you made me feel better.
If you're about to start looking for work you should put contact details in your HN profile, including a pointer to an up-to-date CV.
Developers should be inline with other high paid professionals.
(I am not at all familiar with the European software labor market, so all this is based on the assumption that London is equivalent to New York City and Manchester equivalent to Chicago.)
In London, those top-paying jobs will mostly be in the financial industry and the internationals that only dip their toes into the "alpha" cities. PHP folks won't ever get that high, but the talent vacuum at the upper end will sort of pull up the salaries at the lower end, right along with the cost of living.
Avoid recruitment agencies wherever you can. In the US, they have never helped me one tiny little bit, and have wasted more of my time than I care to consider. And as the original poster has noted, they made a pretty bad match.
I think it very likely that OP should be able to find a better job, at higher pay, within eight weeks. But the search process is exhausting and stressful, and full of stupid hoops to jump through. Seekers are sorely tempted to let other people handle most of the leg work for them. Don't succumb. There's no one else on Earth that will be as invested in the decision to take a new job as the person who will actually be doing the work.
I wouldn't quit today. I would use the fact that I had a job to take the time to make a better decision this time around, and to be more selective with the advertisements, applications, and interviews. With a competitive offer in your back pocket, you can then have a conversation with your current bosses with greater confidence, knowing that they no longer have the power to keep you from making rent.
Edit: Note that the target numbers above are reasonable for your first offer in the salary negotiation, or the upper end of any salary range posted with an advertisement. The actual salary will likely end up less than that, but there is always the possibility that the company agrees to give you what you ask for.
Find good recruiters and only use them. Ask for recommendations from friends if you don't know any. Recruiters are highly valuable because lots of jobs are never really published.
As far as what your current company feels, consider this. Are you producing at the level you know you could? If not, is it really better for them if you stick around? I just heard an example of this from the Design Details podcast where Kim Bost left Etsy to go to a smaller company in arguably a more socially important field. She wasn't enjoying herself not was she capable of doing her best work so she left after 4 months on good terms. It's better for both sides to quit early.
There's no worse hell than spending 1/3 of your life doing something you hate, and spending 1/3 of it dreading that soon you have to go back soon. (The other 1/3 is sleeping). It just wasn't a good fit, that comes with the territory of hiring. They'll understand.
It's really honorable of you to consider the company's time/money/feelings, but sticking around will just be delaying the inevitable and making yourself (more) miserable.
Ask them if there is a position within the company that's better suited for you, or propose to create one that benefits both you and the company. If none of this is in the cards, at least you tried to work it out with them instead of just sending them a notice and going away. At this point you don't have a lot to lose, do you?
Good luck.
OP - it sounds like you're worth way more than £26k ;)
http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Job=PHP_Developer/Salary...
http://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Titan-Merchandise/jobs/Junior-We...
It's my personal opinion that the owner is being cheap; we recently lost our lead sales rep and that's why I got chucked into that role. The rep who left was making three times what I am (he had been with the company for 20+ years) but instead of hiring a replacement at base pay or raising my pay to a level where I could accept the extra duties, he is cheaping out. Now, he's losing me because of it and he admits that he regrets it.
So, I say if they refuse to use your real talents and pay you what you're worth, it's definitely time to move on.
It's not good for you (you're missing out on better opportunities and developing your skills), and it's not good for the company (you're not motivated and your work effort is not 100%).
Looking back, it was definitely a case of me ignoring the warning signs and being too hopeful.
1. At the time, I didn't see it that way... but I just don't like putting people in bad situations. I was leaving for a better gig, why not help the person taking the fall have a softer landing?
Before I started my current job, I already had an accepted offer from another company (Company A). While I had some regrets about accepting the first offer too quickly I put it down to the second company (Company B) reacting slower and that they should probably have moved a bit quicker if filling the position was really a priority (they're interview process took much longer because the CTO was on holiday during the process).
Eventually I did start working at Company A but realized within the first day that my co-workers had almost no passion and some of them had very questionable work ethic. After two weeks I contacted Company B and asked if they would still be interested in me working there and had the difficult conversation with my manager. At some point one of the directors had me explain to a client that I was leaving by my own choice - to this day I'm not even sure what this accomplished.
I ended up being much happier at my current company and didn't have to work in an environment that I hated.
Close friends even commented on noticing a change in my demeanour within the first few days of starting at Company B.
Overall while I would do it again but I think it's also taught me to be careful when accepting a position as well as that it's much easier to rescind an accepted offer before you've started adding value to a company than resigning afterwards.
EDIT: Not saying that there is no boring work in other languages, but in PHP it's more common.
1. Stick it out. You'll become stupid. Remember those hard problems? The ones where you woke up early in the morning, excited to solve? Yeah, those. After a while, you won't be able to solve them anymore. You're out of practice. You can get the skill back, like any other skill, but it's a scary feeling. And it makes the drudgery even worse.
2. Realize this is a business like any other and there are ways to use code to leverage for more cash. I was lucky to be working with only one CMS engine we were using for a bunch of clients, so optimizing was easier. This seems like it may be an even less viable option for you than it was for me. And it didn't work all that well for me, although it was fun for a little while.
3. Get out. This is where you'll end up eventually. But 2 months on a resume looks a lot better than 10, and that's 8 months you'll never get back. And the agency should have negotiated with the recruiting firm that they get your fee back if you leave within 3-6 months, and if they didn't, well, that's on them for being foolish. Your responsibility is to you. When I finally decided this, my life got a lot better, really quick. Good luck. My email's in my profile if you want to talk offline. :)
I left my (quite rewarding) job of 3 years to travel and it was a very difficult decision. In retrospect I should have left much earlier, but instead I waited until I owned several big projects. I quit a few months after receiving their "employee of the quarter" award, still feeling pretty guilty about that one.
If it's obvious that the situation isn't sustainable and that you'll have to leave sooner or later, sooner is preferable from all sides.