HN Explorer

Your Application, Robin-The Siri Challenger, Suspended from Google Play Store

11 points by ilyaeck ↗ HN
Our Robin app, the popular Siri alternative for drivers, has just been suspended by Google, without a single warning. The application, all binaries, tens of thousand of reviews, all gone overnight. That included the our own developer access to the app profile: there is nothing we can do about any of this.

OK Google: How do you shoot down a product downloaded by thousands of people daily? And more importantly, why? And why like this?

Google offers little explanation, all we got was a generic email that sounds as follows.

"REASON FOR SUSPENSION: Violation of the spam provisions of the Content Policy. Please refer to the keyword spam policy help article for more information... If your developer account is still in good standing, you may revise and upload a policy compliant version of this application as a new package name. "

The email also includes a bunch of generic "don't"s with absolutely no indication how they apply to our case. We are confident the app is legitimate and contains no spam. And do be clear, uploading a new version with a new package name actually means losing all the ratings and reviews the app has been accumulating for 3 years!

We feel Robin is a really, really fair product. It's free and has no ads, no click bait, we don't sell user data to advertisers. The app has got a strong following been praised by thousands of enthusiastic users. And we genuinely took a stand with Android: thinking it would be an open and just ecosystem, we went Android-only. Only to be shot down one day without a warning, just because the almighty Google algorithm says so.

Google - we feel really betrayed by you.

If anybody can offer advice on how to resolve this situation, please pitch in! You can also reach us on Twitter at @robinlabs.

Ilya Eckstein Robin Labs cofounder/CEO

39 comments

[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 79.5 ms ] thread
rndywcks
Seems fairly obvious what to do:

"REASON FOR SUSPENSION: Violation of the spam provisions of the Content Policy. Please refer to the keyword spam policy help article for more information... If your developer account is still in good standing, you may revise and upload a policy compliant version of this application as a new package name. "

Not really sure what else to tell you beyond what Google has already told you...

ilyaeck
It is not clear to us at all how we violated the policy. Even if we did, unwittingly, the proper way is to notify us with a warning and give us a chance to correct things (what things?) before shooting the app down. At this point, there is no way we can fix anything: everything is gone!
rndywcks
That's odd - usually it's just disabled. Had you received complaints in the past?
rndywcks
To wit: I'd guess you have Siri in the name. Remove it. Easy.
ilyaeck
Again, we cannot just remove it now, lost all control of the app profile.

BTW, that's been the name for 3 years.

Nadya
Breaking the rules for 3 years and not being caught or asked to remove "Siri" from the name doesn't mean it wasn't breaking the rules.

Remove "Siri" and resubmit.

[dead] qusan69
I loved Robin, I feel like I have lost a good friend. Please help resolve the issue, and bring Robin back.
[dead] FajneFarita
It must be a mistake. Otherwise, Google went crazy!!!!
dangrossman
There's no "algorithm that shot you down", a human reviewer took you to task for violating their published keyword spam policy. Putting popular competitors' names in your app's name so that you come up when someone searches for them is spammy.

https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...

> Your app's title shouldn't use other products' branding or names at the start of your app title without permission.

Remove Siri from your app's name and resubmit it. Hope that you got enough of a userbase from the time you appropriated Apple's trademark for keyword traffic to climb back onto the charts on your own merits. Yes, you'll lose the reviews and download counts accumulated from that spam.

ilyaeck
We did not appropriate Apple's brand. Had that been the case, Apple would have sued us long ago. Siri as simply become synonymous with voice apps, it's a simple way to communicate the app's purpose to users.
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airza
You can bluster about the reason being unfair if you want, but someone explained it to you and it seems to pretty obviously apply to your case and it did the exact thing that spam is supposed to do (have your app show up when someone searches for 'Siri')

I'm not sure why you think that this is unfair.

ilyaeck
We are not really a Siri competitor because there is no Siri on Google Play. So when people look for 'Siri' there, what they are in fact looking for are apps like Robin. is this not to their benefit then? Plus, had Google just warned us about this and asked to change the description, we would have complied. Isn't this what the term "disproportionate force" stands for?
dangrossman
How's that argument work for the other 18 competing Android apps and brands you also listed in your description? When someone types in Waze, they're looking for Waze, not Robin. It's Google's marketplace. You gamed it and got downloads and reviews you wouldn't have otherwise. They took those away, nothing more: you were invited to resubmit the app with the policy violations removed. That's a fair response, not that Google is required to be fair.
ilyaeck
Many people use Robin in combination with Waze - it makes the experience better. Not a competitive situation at all.
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Arjuna
To add to the discussion, and to dangrossman's analysis:

I offer the following recommendations. You should do these before considering any re-submission of your app:

1. I took a look at a cached version of your app's page. I recommend removing all references to all competitor's products. As an example, copy like this needs to be removed entirely:

"Compare to voice assistants and chatbots such as Siri, Nuance, Dragon, Vlingo, Evi, Voice, VoiceSearch, SpeaktoIt Assistant, Skyvi and Google Now, as well as GPS navigation such as Waze, Scout, MapQuest, Navigon, Garmin, TomTom, MotionX, Yelp, etc."

This is in violation of Google's keyword spam policy, as you are using references to, "popular search terms and competitor apps."

2. Remove all user reviews from your app's description section. For example, you need to remove the following line:

"Users say: 'After trying S-Voice, Assistant, Skyvi or Hound ...Robin is the best voice app of its kind; clearly the best choice for drivers in need of information on the road.'"

This violates the section of the policy that states: "Please do not include user testimonials in your app description. They tend to be dubious and are frequently utilized to include references to popular search terms and competitor apps in violation of the policies outlined here. Let your users speak for themselves via Play's comment review system."

3. Remove all references to competitor apps in your actual app. For example, I see on the cached page that you have a reference to Siri in one of the screen images (e.g., the image that says, "Why don't you ask Siri?")

4. I checked out your website. Again, I recommend removing all references to competitor's apps. For example, you directly compare your product to Siri on the following page, and use that product's name at least 5 times: http://robingets.me/robinlabs/html/technology.html . I recommend that you avoid this. Instead, the copy should position your technology to stand on the merit and strength of what it has to offer, in its own right.

Best of luck.

Spoom
Appeal, tell them you understand why they suspended you (mentioning a competitor in your app's title), and tell them that you'll immediately take it out.

Google doesn't typically kill developer accounts after a first suspension so I suspect you've had this happen before.

ilyaeck
We have not had this happen before, but out dev account is still alive. Thanks for the tip!
breiner
So ridiculous, google's play store rules have become harder to understand than apple's app store.
[dead] ReneChavez
I really like Robin, very useful and fun, and i have never had any issues with the product, and was perfectly happy with it. So i don't think it was fair to end it, and without reason. Some Please Google, reinstate Robin Please...
[dead] gmedical
As a faithful user of the "Robin" app, I have to agree with it's founders that Google has unfairly taken their approach to suspending this app from Google Play too far, too quickly. 1. If it was felt that some "violation" occurred, contacting the company founders first would have a more appropriate and professional approach. 2. At any given day, when watching television, countless cross references are made from one advertizing company against their competitors, encouraging viewers to use "their" products, and not the other. Coke does to Pepsi and McDonalds does it to Burger King all the time, etc, etc. 3. The public has a right to pick and choose the Apps of their choice, regardless of the name. When searching for an Android Personal phone assistant, I tried just about every one on Google Play and chose "Robin". NOT because of the name "Robin", Not because it said "Siri" challanger, NOT because it said "Personal Assistant", because in my opinion, I thought it worked better than all the rest.

More on this later!

Glen G.

[dead] Beingv
This suspension is ridiculous! I for one have searched the keyword "Siri" when looking for a voice activated assistant app which functions like Apple's Siri. It's like shopping for Band-Aids instead of bandages. (Band-Aid is a brand).
[dead] Cobbi
Be persistent to google, asking them for more info on why it is so. Later, they might give in and make your app the same again.

Good luck!

[dead] Cobbi
But I don't get why it still works for me.
ilyaeck
The app still works. You just cannot update it or download again.
[dead] Maximuz
Like I said previously, pressure from Apple & probably Microsoft, as well as others that make a similar product. If they don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen. Robin - your personal eyes-free assistant on the road is a legitimate product and comparing it to others is NOT a violation. I will continue to use Robin - your personal eyes-free assistant on the road, and tell every Android phone user I meet to get it.
[dead] Maximuz
Like I said previously, pressure from Apple & probably Microsoft, as well as others that make a similar product. If they don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen. Robin - your personal eyes-free assistant on the road is a legitimate product and comparing it to others is NOT a violation. I will continue to use Robin - your personal eyes-free assistant on the road, and tell every Android phone user I meet to get it.
[dead] futabulous
I use Robin everyday. Please bring it back. Can't function without it. My phone and my car miss her.
[dead] Nebshone
Google has really gone too far in this case. "Do No Evil" can no longer apply to them. There are apps that just bring value to Society, apps that "push the boundaries". Robin is one of them. In the case of such apps, they should be treated differently than "Me Too apps" (or monetization apps). In the case of such apps Google and society in general should treat them with compassion. They should enable them to thrive and so they can continue to add value to mankind. In the case of Robin especially Google should have requested the app developers to fix what needs to be fix and enable the app to continue from the point of suspension. Google - please consider! Ben E. member of the community.
akg_67
What are the chances of having 12 new users comment on same thread? What are the chances of almost 50% of comments on a thread from new users?

This post reeks of spam and mod should consider reviewing and if appropriate delete it so that it doesn't show up in search results in future.

ilyaeck
These new commenters are Robin users who we asked to make their voices heard and say how they feel about Robin - after all they have a stake in this matter as well and deserve to participate in the discussion. They were loyal enough to go through the trouble of creating HN accounts to be able to comment.

Now, let me ask you: where is all this negativity coming from? Why are you so quick to jump to accusations, and by what right ?

dangrossman
Being spammy and dishonest is not going to be welcome in any community, whether it's Google Play or Hacker News. You were accused of acting in exactly the way you admit to have acted.
[dead] Chrisiejjj
First of all, take a deep look into the spam policy. Why does google think that robin is an spamapp? After you know why, you can handle for it. Google has a automatic proces for spamapps. But if you automatically can kicked out, than you can walk right in, because its a machine, so the builders of this machine know where the weak spots are. So if you find an weakspot, (this one because robin does not generate spam) and prove that its a weakspot. than you have to tell that to the creators of the proces and ask them if you can go back in, and they can search in the meantime where the weak spots are. You have to collaborate. Comon robinlaps. We need robin on the road.
[dead] pu22y3at3r
I fucking live Robin but lost her when phone got master reset, I'm so hungry for Robin please help
[dead] pu22y3at3r
My phone was master reset recently and I lost Robin, I miss her and need her in so damn hungry