The Netherlands is quite a few things, one thing it isn't is "The World’s High-Tech Startup Capital".
We have some (very) neat start-ups but we're very far still from reaching our potential and compared to countries around us and of course the US we need to make significant moves if NL is to remain a player in the future.
On the plus side: access to capital is getting easier all the time (but there is still a long long way to go before we can begin to claim parity with the real High-Tech Startup Capital, Silicon Valley), on the down side, the big companies are just as effective (if not even more effective) here in recruiting Dutch talent to work for them directly or to emigrate.
Yes, we have a bit of an advantage being small on the language front (just being able to speak Dutch is pretty much un-heard of, at a minimum the Dutch will typically speak passable English and probably either German, French or both).
The 'success story' when it comes to funding is heavily skewed by two very large deals totalling 275 million out of the 500 million.
The majority of the deals here is sub $1M!
So even if all the information out there can be used to paint a rosy picture the fact is that we're definitely not a leader in much of anything and a ton of work remains to be done.
The good news is most people in the start-up scene here are painfully aware of this and working hard at improving it.
So that one day we may be able to do justice by the title.
It's funny. This article paints a picture of incredible industrial innovation, but if you look at dutchstartupjobs.com, the majority of the startups here seem to be social media or marketing related, just like the rest of the country.
It's the service industry capital of the world.
Of course, some of the high tech startups/SMB's that do exist here can be pretty damn impressive! The list of Dutch startups on this site gives me hope: http://www.climate-kic.org/start-ups/
There are two very different "startup scences" in the Netherlands. The social/cultural/financial startups seem to aggregate around Amsterdam. For the more interesting and high tech stuff you have to look at Delft, Twente, and in particular the Eindhoven areas. For food and agricultural stuff, the place to be is the Wageningen area. Often, from an international or Hollandish perspective, the Netherlands is equated to Amsterdam and vice versa, but that results in a very skewed image of the Netherlands and the startup scene in particular.
(For example, on the website you refer to, there seems to be only one Eindhoven area job and that's for front-end development to boot. Apparently, this website does not give a good representation of start-up jobs in the Netherlands, but focuses on Randstad webdevelopment jobs instead.)
Well..My first reaction is "Meh".
Things you go to know. The startup who incubated in university incubation center are lobbied heavy by the student fraternities. If you are not part of it, you are probably not going to get in. Talking about rockstart and others, they do not really have enough talented startups. Ofcourse there are exceptions. Also, do not forget the government subsides that "sustainable" startup get.
According to me, the dutch startup scene is like any other european startup scene. Theres always few success stories and alot of failures.
> According to me, the dutch startup scene is like any other european startup scene. Theres always few success stories and alot of failures.
I agree with you.
To be honest, the high tech and industrial start ups I know of don't identify with the startup scene much. They're seriously working on solving a problem or pushing some new tech to market; they care about something more tangible than an app and growing big. In contrast, all the startup bootcamps, startup meetings, and other startup hypes seem to focus on apps and starting up as an aim in itself. But, given my background in research, I seem to be biased in my preference for startups with more depth with respect to research and development.
It depends what you consider a startup. Off the top of my head I can name a few start-up companies that are operating in Wageningen, but in industries that don't receive as much attention as sexy computer start ups.
HackerOne, The Launch Cafe, Voys Telecom, Crop-R, Spindle, Yellow Bird, we have a bunch more interesting companies but I'm heavily biased towards Python/JS.
What exactly are you looking for? I might be able to give you a nudge in the right direction.
I'm not sure there are clear lists with "startups", the knowledge of them seems to be embedded in the network surrounding these companies. I did find one site with a bunch of companies on the High Tech Campus (in Eindhoven): http://www.hightechcampus.com/companies/, many of which are or were startups. Furthermore, there are a couple of startup meetups (meetup.com) and other startup initiatives in these cities/areas you can contact for more detailed information.
> This article paints a picture of incredible industrial innovation, but if you look at dutchstartupjobs.com, the majority of the startups here seem to be social media or marketing related, just like the rest of the country.
Yep. If there is one thing a particular circle is very good at it is slapping themselves on the back and having dinners in expensive restaurants. Fortunately not everybody is like that and most people here have their feet firmly planted in the mud.
I dislike hype like this, it's like talking to companies that exist for three weeks and immediately start branding themselves as 'world leader' in their domain.
Indeed no access to capital. No entrepeneurial mindset. The market is stingy and conservative. The majority of the deals are in the 20k - 300k range. And only if you are almost profitable.
Pro: It's easy to live here for foreign people.
The article is probably just an advertorial for rockstart.
Haha, if it wasn't so heavy on mentioning Rockstart, I would have assumed it was paid for by SBC. They are much more about selling themselves outside of The Netherlands. I've heard some people saying that Rockstart is trying to open an SF office, but I'm not sure if I believe that.
I disagree with your statement of "No entrepreneurial mindset" Perhaps when it comes to VCs, they don't really get it, but I find that since capital is so hard to come by, the quality of startups here is much higher than in the US.
Nevertheless, when Dutch spokespeople say "high tech", they mean machines, robots, chips, etc. Complex machinery that you can touch. More generally, hardware.
There's quite a bunch of impressive stuff happening in this space in the Netherlands, even compared to Silicon Valley. Companies like ASML (builder of the chip machines that produced 80% of the chips in your smartphone) and FEI (electron microscopes that can show individual molecules) are some BigCorp examples that are tremendously successful but remarkably unknown outside the Netherlands. There's a whole bunch of startups and SMEs doing similar stuff at similar levels: PhenomWorld, Solaytec, Mapper, Nemo Healthcare are a small number of pretty successful ones that I know of, and there's a whole bunch more.
In this space, Silicon Valley has Intel and Apple. These are huge and awesome companies, but there's a way smaller slipstream of SMEs to complement them, definitely if you compare it to the total amount of tech businesses there. To my knowledge, the vast, vast majority of Silicon Valley startups do web/mobile stuff these days.
On a personal note though, I find that while these Dutch companies make incredibly impressive products, the way they accomplish this is often very old-fashioned and stubborn. 30 million lines of untested, undocumented, takes-a-night-to-compile C code, anyone? Welcome to ASML.
I'm getting very bored with the start-up cheerleading industry in Europe: a small but very vocal number of publications (Tech.eu, The Next Web, TechCrunch EU) and event organisers constantly championing random cities in Europe as up-and-coming technology epicentres to rival Silicon Valley. Even London, which is by any reasonable measure the largest hub of start-up activity in Europe and has seen the most significant exits, comes nowhere close to Silicon Valley in terms of deal volume, capital availability, density of senior talent, etc. Sure, tech start-ups exist in Amsterdam and in Berlin, and in Stockholm, and in Barcelona, but these cities aren't technology hubs, creating self-sustaining economies driven by meaningful exits and the development of world-leading domain expertise: many of the start-ups in these cities are only sustainable because VCs in Europe are primarily funded by European governments. That's what a "hub" is; take away the hype and the government money and it still exists.
I agree with most of the message, but remember that in the US everything is funded by the government too (direct investments, state contracts, research contracts, tax-breaks etc).
Well... there is a lot of tech stuff in the US funded by the government, but the wildly successful Silicon Valley style "startup scene" usually isn't really where that money is sent. More like SpaceX/Tesla/etc, a few solar panel manufacturers, and large businesses.
There is a Knowledge Migrant Visa which means that anybody with decent IT skills should not have a problem. Though I think you need the job offer first. Hiring people from outside the Netherlands and getting them a visa is very normal so it shouldn't be a barrier for anybody who wants to move to Amsterdam. There is also a tax incentive where foreigners don't pay as much tax (30% ruling, the first 30% of your income doesn't get taxed) for the first ten years. Again, if you are sufficiently skilled you should qualify.
I think this specifically is a reason why it is so hard for Dutch startups to hire non-EU citizens. The minimum salary for the Highly Skilled Migrant Worker visa is something like 35k a year. This is waay more than a small company can afford, and it doesn't even include the registration costs for hosting a Highly Skilled Migrant Worker.
If you can't afford to pay someone with the skills to qualify as a Highly Skilled Migrant, then I think the small business needs to reconsider their hiring needs.
It's €42k/year for workers under 30 and €51k/year if over 30. Which to be honest for a skilled developer is not out of the ordinary in NL (which is the point of those minimums).
It allows you to be a freelancer in Holland. No citizenship, but you do get a residency permit that is up for renewal every 2 years, as long as you satisfy the requirements (no social benefits, only freelancing, &c).
Interesting article but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that the excellent school system is the cause of the good English skills of the Dutch (which undoubtedly exist). It's far more likely that the major reason is the non-subbed TV/movies imo (well a combination of both)
I've always associated the Netherlands with being a tech saavy nation. They always had a vivid hacking scene for example. Additionally the Dutch tend to be citizens of the world and pretty open minded which is a good mix.
I completely agree with the assessment of Amsterdam. Nice city, not overly expensive, pretty great for youngish people -> good competitive edge (Berlin is similar but Amsterdam has more of a startupy general vibe imo).
>It's far more likely that the major reason is the non-subbed TV/movies imo
For the current set of people in their twenties I agree. However, a lot more kids TV these days is dubbed instead of subtitled. I notice that English with 14 year olds these days seems less advanced then ten years ago.
I've interviewed with some startups in Amsterdam, and many seem to want to pay below market rates with no equity. I think this is hindering the startup scene in the Netherlands. Philips and other big companies are taking all the entry level talent because they pay more, leaving startups with less offerings. For example, of all the talented students graduating CS at TU Eindhoven this year, I'm not aware of any who are considering startups (Except me! PM if you know of openings!). When Philips and KPMG and the other big players offer 2x salary, it's hard to turn them down.
Even at traditional companies software engineering salaries are not particularly high.
That's why most CS students choose to go towards consultancy job, and never write a line of code in the rest of their careers. (Those who want to do engineering choose hardware, which is much more respected and better paid.)
As a result, most software startups are started by MBA's and rarely by engineers, which perpetuates the circle of undervaluing software engineering skills.
I dunno. What's particularly high? Salaries here aren't on par with Silicon Valley for sure, but they're not bad either in a lot of the places I've looked into or worked at. It's easy to get 50k+ EUR/year, sometimes up to 70 or even higher for senior roles.
Amsterdammer here, for anyone interested, check angel.co for indications of startup salaries. Keep in mind that the cost of living is very high in Amsterdam. Rent is easily 1100 euro or more if you are unwilling to share or live in a bad neighbourhood. This could equal 40-50% of your take-home pay.
One thing I noticed while touring the university in Eindhoven was that students are pretty much brainwashed to serve the lighting industry. I really disagreed with the sentiment that there was any so-called "innovation" to be made in the field. This might sound ridiculous, but if The Netherlands wants to create actual change, they'll need to move beyond LEDs.
One thing I noticed while touring the university in Eindhoven was that students are pretty much brainwashed to serve the lighting industry. I really disagreed with the sentiment that there was any so-called "innovation" to be made in the field. This might sound ridiculous, but if The Netherlands wants to create actual change, they'll need to move beyond LEDs.
Having studied in Delft I can attest to the change occurring on campus. YES!Delft has changed significantly over the last few years and there are quite a few disruptive companies coming out of the incubator program. I regularly talk to a few of the resident entrepreneurs and I get the feeling that it’s the lack of capital that’s really hindering growth. For a previous startup that I abandoned, the advice I got was to prepare my pitch and fly out to SV, only because investors seem to be following instead of leading in The Netherlands.
I’m not working on another startup and I’ve gotten some great advice. It’s made me realize that certain sectors are probably easier to raise money for. In this low-interest rate environment, there’s probably a lot more capital seeking investment across the board.
Curious if anyone in Delft or elsewhere in the country has an investors perspective on what the fundraising environment will be like within the next 12 months.
Not sure if we should give most software companies the label "high tech". I think that should be reserved for really innovative companies in the fields of energy or biology, or... software if it is truly innovative.
If a company is working with HTML and CSS and perhaps some tools pulled of github, then, imho, that's not high-tech. Or what would we call a company working on nuclear fusion, or on protein synthesis?
47 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 96.8 ms ] threadWe have some (very) neat start-ups but we're very far still from reaching our potential and compared to countries around us and of course the US we need to make significant moves if NL is to remain a player in the future.
On the plus side: access to capital is getting easier all the time (but there is still a long long way to go before we can begin to claim parity with the real High-Tech Startup Capital, Silicon Valley), on the down side, the big companies are just as effective (if not even more effective) here in recruiting Dutch talent to work for them directly or to emigrate.
Yes, we have a bit of an advantage being small on the language front (just being able to speak Dutch is pretty much un-heard of, at a minimum the Dutch will typically speak passable English and probably either German, French or both).
The 'success story' when it comes to funding is heavily skewed by two very large deals totalling 275 million out of the 500 million.
The majority of the deals here is sub $1M!
So even if all the information out there can be used to paint a rosy picture the fact is that we're definitely not a leader in much of anything and a ton of work remains to be done.
The good news is most people in the start-up scene here are painfully aware of this and working hard at improving it.
So that one day we may be able to do justice by the title.
It's the service industry capital of the world.
Of course, some of the high tech startups/SMB's that do exist here can be pretty damn impressive! The list of Dutch startups on this site gives me hope: http://www.climate-kic.org/start-ups/
(For example, on the website you refer to, there seems to be only one Eindhoven area job and that's for front-end development to boot. Apparently, this website does not give a good representation of start-up jobs in the Netherlands, but focuses on Randstad webdevelopment jobs instead.)
According to me, the dutch startup scene is like any other european startup scene. Theres always few success stories and alot of failures.
I agree with you.
To be honest, the high tech and industrial start ups I know of don't identify with the startup scene much. They're seriously working on solving a problem or pushing some new tech to market; they care about something more tangible than an app and growing big. In contrast, all the startup bootcamps, startup meetings, and other startup hypes seem to focus on apps and starting up as an aim in itself. But, given my background in research, I seem to be biased in my preference for startups with more depth with respect to research and development.
http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/24/hackerone-bags-25m-as-secur...
What exactly are you looking for? I might be able to give you a nudge in the right direction.
I'd love to get in touch with more of the startups in the second group you talk about. Can you shoot me an email? davedx@gmail.com
Yep. If there is one thing a particular circle is very good at it is slapping themselves on the back and having dinners in expensive restaurants. Fortunately not everybody is like that and most people here have their feet firmly planted in the mud.
I dislike hype like this, it's like talking to companies that exist for three weeks and immediately start branding themselves as 'world leader' in their domain.
Indeed no access to capital. No entrepeneurial mindset. The market is stingy and conservative. The majority of the deals are in the 20k - 300k range. And only if you are almost profitable.
Pro: It's easy to live here for foreign people.
The article is probably just an advertorial for rockstart.
Nevertheless, when Dutch spokespeople say "high tech", they mean machines, robots, chips, etc. Complex machinery that you can touch. More generally, hardware.
There's quite a bunch of impressive stuff happening in this space in the Netherlands, even compared to Silicon Valley. Companies like ASML (builder of the chip machines that produced 80% of the chips in your smartphone) and FEI (electron microscopes that can show individual molecules) are some BigCorp examples that are tremendously successful but remarkably unknown outside the Netherlands. There's a whole bunch of startups and SMEs doing similar stuff at similar levels: PhenomWorld, Solaytec, Mapper, Nemo Healthcare are a small number of pretty successful ones that I know of, and there's a whole bunch more.
In this space, Silicon Valley has Intel and Apple. These are huge and awesome companies, but there's a way smaller slipstream of SMEs to complement them, definitely if you compare it to the total amount of tech businesses there. To my knowledge, the vast, vast majority of Silicon Valley startups do web/mobile stuff these days.
On a personal note though, I find that while these Dutch companies make incredibly impressive products, the way they accomplish this is often very old-fashioned and stubborn. 30 million lines of untested, undocumented, takes-a-night-to-compile C code, anyone? Welcome to ASML.
I am an American citizen hoping to move to Utrecht in the near future, and would like to ask you a few questions. Contact info is in my profile.
http://www.expatica.com/nl/visas-and-permits/Moving-to-the-N...
http://www.newtoholland.nl/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT_%28treaty%29
https://ind.nl/EN/individuals/residence-wizard/work/working-...
It allows you to be a freelancer in Holland. No citizenship, but you do get a residency permit that is up for renewal every 2 years, as long as you satisfy the requirements (no social benefits, only freelancing, &c).
Disclousure: I am currently working for Textkernel
I've always associated the Netherlands with being a tech saavy nation. They always had a vivid hacking scene for example. Additionally the Dutch tend to be citizens of the world and pretty open minded which is a good mix. I completely agree with the assessment of Amsterdam. Nice city, not overly expensive, pretty great for youngish people -> good competitive edge (Berlin is similar but Amsterdam has more of a startupy general vibe imo).
For the current set of people in their twenties I agree. However, a lot more kids TV these days is dubbed instead of subtitled. I notice that English with 14 year olds these days seems less advanced then ten years ago.
That's why most CS students choose to go towards consultancy job, and never write a line of code in the rest of their careers. (Those who want to do engineering choose hardware, which is much more respected and better paid.)
As a result, most software startups are started by MBA's and rarely by engineers, which perpetuates the circle of undervaluing software engineering skills.
I’m not working on another startup and I’ve gotten some great advice. It’s made me realize that certain sectors are probably easier to raise money for. In this low-interest rate environment, there’s probably a lot more capital seeking investment across the board.
Curious if anyone in Delft or elsewhere in the country has an investors perspective on what the fundraising environment will be like within the next 12 months.
If a company is working with HTML and CSS and perhaps some tools pulled of github, then, imho, that's not high-tech. Or what would we call a company working on nuclear fusion, or on protein synthesis?