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Tell HN: Hello

847 points by wwwarsame ↗ HN
Hello All,

My name is Mohamed, and I am a jail guard!

After a year or so reading HN, I finally made an account! This place is overwhelmingly full of smart people, and I sometimes feel out of place! I have learned a great deal from all of you. With this said, I am embarking on a two year journey to apply to YC in FALL of 2017. I have given myself this arbitrary timeline to motivate myself.

You see, I am a total noob. I'm about to enroll in an online coding bootcamp. This is to grasp enough CS/coding experience so I can graduate from the proverbial 'I'm looking for a technical co-founder' dilemma, and to build the MVP on my own. What I become, for better or worse, is how I will attract the right people to tell my story and grow a company together. In the meantime, I am working on myself first and learning each day from all of you. I am excited to begin this marathon I call starting a startup.

189 comments

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MurWade
Hello. good luck. i will be watching you. haha
brobinson
Do you already have a business idea or two floating around in your head? Just curious.
hliyan
You've given yourself two years -- that's good, realistic. May I ask what level of knowledge skill in what areas you're aiming for by fall of 2017, and how much time you plan to devote per, say week, for the exercise?

Also, good luck. If you need to be pointed in the right direction, I'm sure a lot of people here (including myself) would be happy to do so during this period.

nailer
Awesome Mohamed! Start small, and use the free resources - try the Learn the Hard Way series. Python is a great language to start with, JavaScript is a little more difficult but you can do more things. Attend meetups too, they'll inspire you and it's nice to be able to speak to people in real life about this stuff.
wwwarsame
Thank you sir. I have recently downloaded the online version of Zed Shaw's Learn Python the Hard Way ebook with accompanying lessons. Taking this along with Udacity's Intro to Comp Science course which uses Python. Basic JS under my belt from team treehouse and udemy course.
trentmb
> This place is overwhelmingly full of smart people, and I sometimes feel out of place!

You and I both- I commend you on your humility and look forward to your success.

alouanchi
Good luck man, wish you all the best in this journey.
peterjancelis
I hope your MVP will be catering to prison guard or prison management. You probably got some unique insights there that few developers have.
[dead] chronic32
Just build a mobile app... That's what startups have done and will continue to do
Kluny
Not to mention the prison industry is overdue for some serious upsets.
Stratoscope
Wow, Mohamed, this is great. I'm glad I stayed up late enough tonight to see your post. Please feel free to give me a shout via the email address in my profile - I'd be more than happy to kick around any ideas to help you get started.

What kind of computer do you use - Windows, Mac, Linux? I'd like to give you some suggestions for programming tools (mostly free, some you might pay for), but of course the details will depend on which OS you're using.

I second nailer's suggestion that you may want to start with Python for some of your initial learning. It's an easy language to get started with, but also very powerful. Even if you end up using another language later on, your Python skills will remain valuable - it's great for writing anything from little scripts up to large apps.

Ruby is also really nice, you wouldn't go wrong with that either. And of course you'll want to learn JavaScript eventually too, regardless of what else you do. You could start with any of these really, but Python is probably the easiest to begin with. What you really want to start out doing is to get the basic concepts of programming down - and these carry over from language to language.

One suggestion I'll make right away: in every language you work with, find and learn how to use a good debugger. For JavaScript, every browser has a nice built-in debugger. (I like the one in Chrome, but they are all pretty good.) For Python or Ruby it will depend to some degree on which OS you use.

And a good IDE with built-in syntax checking, autocomplete, and all that is really great to have.

Some people will tell you not to use IDEs and debuggers and things like that, as if it were a sign of weakness to use good tools. Or that if you follow Test Driven Development you should never need to use a debugger. Don't listen to them!

I see so many people asking questions on Stack Overflow that they could have answered for themselves in a few minutes if they only knew how to debug their code. Testing is important and you should learn all about it and do it, but debuggers are for more than just fixing bugs. They help you explore and learn how your code works, and what the APIs you're calling really do, in an interactive and visual way.

Here's a Stack Overflow post of mine from a couple of years ago with screenshots of a few Python debuggers:

http://stackoverflow.com/a/16474706/1202830

Don't worry if there's a lot of stuff in those screens; it will all make sense as you get into it.

You'll also want to get into version control sooner rather than later. Most people use Git these days, although Mercurial is very good too. I recommend avoiding the Git command line though, at least at first. You have enough to learn as it is without having to deal with that arcane system. But there are some nice visual interfaces to Git. I like SmartGit a lot and recommend it. It's free for noncommercial use. Or you may want to start with something even simpler like one of the free clients from GitHub.

Again, let me know what OS you're on and I'll make some specific suggestions for various kinds of tools.

p.s. Top of Hacker News on your first post! Not too shabby...

wwwarsame
I am glad to have witnessed someone like you who's so generous of their time, and knowledge. Sir, thank you.

OS - Windows. Saving for a Macbook (too expensive). I am already on Udacity's Intro to Computer Science and Python is used to teach this course. Plus going through Learn Python the Hardway by Zed Shaw. Taking a Ruby course on Udemy.

IDE - I use Sublime Text for front-end development lessons (team treehouse, udemy), and Cloud9 for the Ruby course I am taking through Udemy.

So much to learn! What is your email?

Jugurtha
Welcome, Mohamed..

A little word of advice that I hope will save you a lot of time and frustration:

- Don't wait to complete your training to start your project. Start with the knowledge you have and tweak it over time. If you have no knowledge right now, start by sketching in English. It seems stupid but just the fact of abstracting human needs that seem obvious to us and formalizing them into logical steps will help you tremendously.

- Write code about random stuff you think about. It will be ugly and you'll laugh at it, but you will be lightyears ahead than if you wait when you finish your training to start writing code. It doesn't need to be great, awesomely useful or something.

- Compare yourself with yourself. "..wrote 3,000 lines of Python in a day to build a Segway" made me hate myself. Fight that urge. I know I still am. Reading biographies of great people, seeing what people are actually doing and building makes me feel miserable, incompetent and good at nothing.

- Understand that the points above are for you just in part, they are mainly for myself :)

Here's something to make you feel less inadequate:

http://carlcheo.com/fascinating-posts-from-tech-founders-who...

Work to get better. When the itch presents itself, you'll have the skills to scratch it.

Good luck.

felixrabe
> Reading biographies of great people, seeing what people are actually doing and building makes me feel miserable, incompetent and good at nothing.

Wow, that's something I totally have as well. At the same time, I want to be (and am, many times) inspired by other people who are already more successful than me. After all, they did struggle, maybe with other things, but their success proves that it is possible to reach it / to achieve something awesome.

The struggle with a feeling of worthlessness is such a mystery. Why do I have it? Why so many people in general? What is the cause, what can be done? I try many things, fall flat on my nose, and then try to get up again. Sometimes, it's a hellish nightmare.

radmuzom
All the best. My advice to you would be to try and think how you can provide real value to people (which rules out 90% of "startups" in Silicon Valley) and make a positive change in their lives.

This does not mean you have to solve world hunger, it can be as simple as having identified a loophole which allows for corruption in jails and you use technology to close that loophole.

thekid314
Or fix that exploitative phone call system in jails.
wwwarsame
Also the canteen they order, way overpriced. There are numerous inefficiencies in the prison system, and Pigeonly seems like they picked one area, phones, to attack first.
ectoplasm
Maybe there's some area for profit involving all the inmates doing useful desk jobs.
jnbiche
Good luck with your endeavors! Regarding learning to code, I'll just reiterate what others have said that Python is an excellent language to learn with (that said, it's not ideal for everything, but it is a great learner's language).

Also, if you haven't already, I'd suggest switching to Linux or OSX and get used to working on the command line. Most developers in the start-up scene will be working on OSX or Linux, and learning how to use the command line will benefit you enormously.

arianvanp
Awesome. If you ever wanna chat about coding or so. discuss geeky stuff. I'm always idling on IRC (freenode) on the nickname `arianvp`.
cies
Always extending a helping hand :) Muhammed: arianvp serious chief geek, and a very helpful/resourceful one!
wwwarsame
Thank you arianvanp. I will get in touch.
technofiend
Mohamed let me tell you about my little sister. She was the opposite of me in that she hated school. Truly hated it. She said she'd never set foot in school again after graduating high school.

But, she wanted to be a police officer, and that required college. So she put herself through school by being a prison guard. My little 5'3" sister running around bossing grown men like it was nothing.

She made it through school and got hired as a police officer. She spent the next five years as a dispatcher. Nobody wanted to put her on the streets. But she persevered and eventually she won the day and became a patrol officer. I dare say except for getting married it was the happiest day of her life.

Don't let anything stop you, man. Smart isn't everything: perseverance counts for a great deal.

sktrdie
Great story expect the last part. Where you're sort of implying that all smart people are coders and others that do other types of jobs aren't.

I met a lot of people that were a lot smarter than most "startup developers" and it didn't require them to sit in front of a computer most of the day.

Lorento
It's not easy to tell how smart someone is by meeting them. That tends to bias you towards social abilities. IQ tests help to level the field by testing abilities that we can't easily observe just by knowing someone. Not that IQ tests are accurate at all either. But I just mean to say that feeling that someone is smart can just mean they're smart at appearing smart and may not have the same abilities at a broad range of thinking skills as someone with a high IQ.
cturner
I had a cab driver a couple of weeks ago. We got talking, and I said I am a developer. He said he knew some c#. He seemed slow but I humoured him - asked how he got into it. He then started talking about machine code programming on the c64 and showed an encyclopedic knowledge of the sprite system, the way to build event loops and different approaches to laying out large programs.
charlesdm
That's pretty awesome! Reminds me of a conversation I had with my grandfather last year - he told me did a few years of programming on IBM mainframes with punch cards in his 20s, before switching and becoming an accountant.
jarfil
Some people with high IQ are smart enough to say "I want to be a cab driver", and do it. They probably are happier in their jobs, than many others who just do whatever "is expected" of them.
gbog
Yes, and when what's expected is starting a start-up, you get HN crowd, where someone who never tried like me often feels that starting a start-up is really overrated here. For instance, I wouldn't bet a lot on Larry Page or Mark Zuckerberg being much happier in their lives than your average immigrant taxi driver.
SolaceQuantum
Cab drivers are really some of the most interesting people. I've spoken to a cab driver that claimed to have been a refugee from a country in Africa- told me how he missed how brightly the stars shone in comparison with the light pollution of the American city. He was a reporter that got in trouble with his government and had to get out.
gbog
Selection effect. You have much less occasions to chitchat with firemen, street cleaners, or farmers than taxi drivers.
secretsnackbar
Relevant anecdote: I used to do some programming for my job, and have an incredible vocabulary and am fluent in Chinese; I'm extremely "smart". But, sbout a year and a half ago, I was in a terrible motorcycle accident in which I was knocked off by an SUV and went into a coma, suffering a massive amount of neural damage to various areas all around my brain. Unfortunately, because of this brain damage, it is now incredibly difficult for me to learn some new things (specifically the logistical complexities involved in programming or advanced math/physics, for example). Also, my short-term memory is now awful. Many a time, in recent months, I've figured out how to do some kind of little software trick on my PC or phone, but then I'll forget how I did it, and have to spend hours re-learning it. Am I not "smart" anymore? Conclusion: sometimes how you appear and the things you say can't completely represent one's capabilities. "Smart" is a very broad, and possibly ambiguous term.
scarmig
Side note: have you tried memory systems like Anki (spaced repetition)? As I've gotten older, it's been a godsend: my ability to pick up memory on the fly is shot, but Anki helps a lot. You're in a different, unfortunate situation, but it's worth a shot.
DonQuixote1000
Ha! That's actually how I feel all the time. Learning something new is hard. If I don't use it I start to forget it. I do have two degrees: Engineering and computer science. I always thoguht this was normal. Maybe I'm stupid and never realized it? Iwonder...
jmspring
I read it as, one can be smart, but the drive and perseverance to pursue your dreams and desires are really a major key to achieving one's goals.
bkeroack
The major key. Hard work and perseverance can make up for just about any deficit in natural ability, but it doesn't work the other way around.
scarmig
Eh, this'll end up being a metaphysical debate, but I think that's much too strong.

If someone is of average or higher natural ability, yes, hard work and perseverance will be the biggest determinant of outcome. But someone who's genuinely pretty dumb, wholly socially incompetent, or exceptionally disabled or ill will have massive difficulties being successful regardless of their perseverance.

Which isn't to say that hard work is useless to the people on the lower end of the spectrum: far from it, a stupid hard-worker not only can find themselves with a decent enough job but will usually be able to keep it. It's just they lack the ability to set themselves up for good opportunities like that and to limit downside risk from one-off events. Luck of the draw will end up dominating outcomes.

(Obviously, most people who comment on internet forums, particularly a specialized forum like HN, are not only likely to be average or above but also to have extremely limited contact with people significantly below the mean, so if you're reading this, your life outcomes probably are determined by your own work ethic. On that note, cheers to a productive Sunday!)

dd36
Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
[dead] jmspring
I read it as, one can be smart, but the drive and perseverance to pursue your dreams and desires are really a major key to achieving one's goals.
johnmaguire2013
I'm not certain he meant to imply a divide between smart people and non-coders, I think he was referencing Mohammed's comment that people here were very smart people and that he felt out of place in them. To which the parent of your comment responded that it's okay to not be the smartest person, as long as you have perseverance.
afarrell
huh? The story ends with her succeeding at being a cop, not a developer.
wwwarsame
I was complementing everyone here when I used the word 'smart', not necessarily in terms of IQ level, but learned a great deal from them as I have been reading relevant startup threads on HN for the past year.

I agree. I consider some of the inmates I deal with day to day very smart when you want to understand their world, and they will be more successful than anyone else when the game is being played on their turf. Sadly, they have other "distractions".

imdsm
I've got plenty smarts, but how about some of that perseverance. I'd love some more of that. I do great work but very sporadically.
shiggerino
>My little 5'3" sister running around bossing grown men like it was nothing.

There's nothing strange or unusual about that.

wwwarsame
Thank you. The fear of starting anything worthwhile is enormous. So many insecurities spring up when people decide to act on something. Such things as: am I good enough to do this? What will people think of me? I don't deserve this, and so on.

I am really happy for your sister and the many other people who just push every day to get up, not feel sorry for themselves and make it work. Thank you for the encouraging words.

[dead] ShellDragon
"Smart isn't everything: perseverance counts for a great deal." - Technofiend

Im gonna print this and put it in a frame! So much of enlightenment in one reply!

zitterbewegung
You have experience with Jails and guarding things? I would ask you to figure out some type of problem that requires the protection of some type of asset.
arisAlexis
maybe your MVP will actually matter to lots of people and become useful for humanity since you are working for this specific sector that innovation is rare.
motyar
Join Github.com, show up, create something, dont tell; show.
12jason
Jail guard that must be interesting
[dead] 12jason
do people thro poo at you?
ramykhuffash
This is an awesome post & I'm excited to see the support from HN.

I like how you're giving yourself a solid goal and plenty of time to achieve it.

Quick question - you mention that you'd like to build an MVP yourself, do you know what product you'd like to build or what market you're interested in serving?

wwwarsame
Hi ramykhuffash,

I've just started learning the core web dev fundamentals - HTML, CSS, JAVASCRIPT. I am also taking a Ruby course on Udemy, and as mentioned, starting The Firehose Project in September. Two ideas so far: a. idea from my job (jail) b. ESL idea I always had even before starting the career as a jail guard.

Things change so fast, so I will see what happens when one of these ideas makes contact with customers.

vjdhama
Awesome man!! Your humility just inspires me. Ping me (@vjdhama) if you need any kind of help with coding or any aspect of learning for that matter.

I'd be more than happy to lend out a hand.

masterminding
I might have to take you up on that offer myself. ;-)
wwwarsame
Thank you friend. I will get in touch.
bootload
"My name is Mohamed, and I am a jail guard!"

G'day, Mohamed don't make the mistake of defining yourself by your job. You are much, much more than that. You work (and survive) in a Jail? That now makes you 10x better than most nerds on HN in understanding and handling people. Scan HN and the general press and you can see how badly Startups and their users are hurt by this and you'll realise this is a desirable skill. Start from there.

akerl_
~"Don't make the mistake of defining yourself by your job, just know that your job makes you better than these other people with a different job"
TeMPOraL
Don't define yourself by your job, but recognize the unique skills it gave you and use them to your advantage.
y4mi
> ~"Don't make the mistake of defining yourself by your job, just know that your job makes you better

>> in understanding and handling people

> than these other people with a different job"

you can't ignore the middle, as that is the defining part of his sentence. every sentence is hypocrisy if you remove important parts

rickhanlonii
> ~"You can't ignore the middle, every sentence is hypocrisy."
galfarragem
This is related with English language itself (and most languages as far as I know). For example if you say that in Italian doesn't make sense:

Io sono architetto. // I am an architect

You must say:

Io faccio l'architetto. // I make the architect (job)

Disclaimer: I'm not a linguist neither an Italian native. More accurate comments are welcome.

EdiX
You are wrong. Both "sono architetto" and "sono un architetto" are valid italian and actually very common. Also the verb closest to fare is to do not to make. Source: I'm italian.

Y'all are philosophising too much about the copula (a rather common philosopher's pasttime).

mahouse
>G'day, Mohamed don't make the mistake of defining yourself by your job.

Why not? A jail guard sounds very, very badass.

grandman
I'd think twice before denying his pull request. He'd crush me like a tin can!
wwwarsame
This made me giggle like a little girl though.
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wwwarsame
Hey bootload, you are right. I AM more than my job. I just like to throw that in there once in a while. The mistake is people reading and taking this literally, as if I can't do anything else or my numerous life experiences don't amount to anything when starting a Startup.
aaronbasssett
> That now makes you 10x better than most nerds on HN in understanding and handling people

At the risk of making your point for you, as one of the "nerds on HN" I would just like to tell you to take your sweeping statements and fuck off. Or have you forgotten you're a member of this site as well, nerd.

scott_karana
The core of your rebuttal was sound, but both you and GP were pretty rude.
aaronbasssett
Does being Irish/Scot earn me a little leeway? That is probably the minimum amount of swearing I'm allowed per sentence.
scott_karana
Hah, I think if you put /scot at the end of your sentence, I wouldn't have thought twice.

The internet and tone... :)