Ask HN: Most hacker friendly laptop on the market?
Hi fellow Hackers!
I am a grad student/wannabe-enterprenuer/hacker and I am really looking for advice in choosing a good work machine that would suit all three roles. Your advice is most welcome. I've been using company laptops and an old Dell Studio that worked well for last 7 years. Now I need one and the market is flooded with configurations and models. Maybe this discussion can help me and others in choosing something that is our livelihood :)
89 comments
[ 6.2 ms ] story [ 180 ms ] thread[1] https://duckduckgo.com/bang
I don't pipe sensitive data through the Google cloud, but as far as hardware prices go, the Chromebook has ABSOLUTELY got Apple beat.
Furthermore, Google makes efforts to fight back against NSL's, and even have canaries implemented.
I don't use Google products when there is something better, obviously but refusing to use something of a superior quality for some reason you can't actually articulate seems ridiculous to me.
I have no sympathy who are afraid to use things because someone might be watching, especially not when that person can't be bothered to consider just using something else for sensitive data, but instead whine and moan about how SuccessfulCorp is ruining everything, blah blah, etc.
Too many 'anons' are obsessed with security, yet oftentimes they are the most security-ignorant demographic on the market.
I just don't want to build anything of value ontop of their products, either because work customer contracts demand privacy policies, or work today must be maintained the next 20years to come (non-startup environment) and my experience with google is that they don't care about these scenarios.
My only complaint is that it's not very waterproof.
The 13" MBA I had was nice, but I ended up replacing it with a 15" MBP for the power and higher resolution.
I originally replaced an insanely heavy 17" MBP with the 13" MBA, so the weight of the 15" MBP doesn't really bother me even though I carry it around everywhere.
The weight difference between my old 13" MBP (4.5 lbs) and the 11" MBA (2.4 lbs) is big enough to make a difference for me since I constantly have it slung over my shoulder. It looks like they've since lightened the 13" MBP to 3.5 lbs, though, so it's not as big a difference now.
I'm not a fan of Apple, but when I was looking through my options while shopping for a new laptop recently, there was nothing else that seemed like it wasn't a compromise for the same price.
Won't break (dropped mine on cement before and came back with just a few scratches and a small dent in the metal) and they're reasonably fast.
And you didn't hear this from me, but if you replace the WiFi card you will have perfect OS X compatibility with a T420.
I believe it's also possible to replace the BIOS with CoreBoot, however I haven't tried.
I like the fact that I can easily replace components (battery, cd-rom with an extra HDD, etc.). Lastly, I agree, they're rock solid and survive most drops and even waterspills.
I've been using an IdeaPad (The Thinkpad's consumer-oriented co-brand), namely a Yoga. Although I miss the red mouse pointer thing, it's otherwise an ideal development platform, with enough disk space for Docker and VirtualBox. Oh, and it runs Mint perfectly so my Docker images are compatible with almost any Debian-based deployment environment.
Some people don't like the trackpoint, but I love it so much that I've disabled the trackpad completely.
I honestly think that it's the best value laptop currently available.
Only downsides:
- Low res TN screen. It's atrocious.
- Lenovo nerfed the Trackpoint drivers at some point, making it impossible to configure the middle button behavior.
As others have said - I did dislike the screen to an extent, but it got the job done.
To me, the keyboard is crucial. It has great tactile feedback, and even the new layout is quite reasonable by comparison. Apple keyboards have great acoustic feedback that ThinkPads lack, but they omit so many important (for powerusers) keys. I would like to try out the XPS 13, it's the keyboard layout that is holding me back.
> Especially since they look kinda ugly too
The ThinkPad design polarizes. For me, MacBooks and ThinkPads are among the few laptops that don't look ugly. I can't stand silver-colored or glossy plastic and stuff like that. I, like many ThinkPad customers, appreciate the traditional simplicity of the black box. I do understand why other people may find it ugly.
I like that it's pre-vetted hardware for running Ubuntu/Linux, has very long battery life, and the screen is really a joy to look at.
It's a 13-inch screen crammed into an 11-inch laptop body, so you get a lot of screen real-estated without the full bulkiness.
I also love the lightweight (close to MacBook light here), and the versatility in connectors (a detractor for the MacBook line for me).
In addition, out of the box things like 5GHz ac wifi just works under Linux.
That being said, I like the laptop with Fedora and would recommend it.
Some downside with the Ubuntu version:
* the trackpad not deactivated when typing, that's a real pain, have you found a solution?
* the wake up after a suspension will sometimes generate some problems (no wifi etc..)
https://github.com/advancingu/XPS13Linux/issues/3#issuecomme...
I haven't had any real problems with waking up from suspension, it only takes a little time sometimes. Disabling and re-enabling the WiFi should work anyway, if you lost your WiFi connection.
My main complaint and why I have a macbook air now (even though it is inferior in most respects, I pay for a osx but never booted it) is that I ride alot of trains and the power connector on the Dell landed the machine on the ground a few times when people tripped on my wire. It uses the normal metal tube into hole design. The laptop still works, but it makes me wonder why dell never made a magnetic power connector. My mobile phone has one and it's a Sony/Ericsson.
"hopefully it will be availabel within 2-3 weeks"
[0] https://twitter.com/barton808/status/622791090823827456
(Yeah, I'm a console gamer...while 'games' is the historical achilles heel of the mac, I've not had any problems with the types of games I play (Bioshock/Portal))
My 2012 MBA is still perfect today.
Two things to note: 1) Max out the RAM and CPU 2) The 2015 13" MacbookAir has much faster PCIE storage for some reason
In addition to this, I sometimes remote desktop into a £500 Windows Laptop (80% as fast as TOP-end unreleased Broadwell) from pcspecialist.co.uk with an i7-4810mq processor). Also has nvidia 860M graphics!
15" MacbookPro with old graphics for £2500 is outrageous.
https://puri.sm/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9912034
(It's not all favourable...)
http://shop.gluglug.org.uk/product/libreboot-x200/
The older X60 is slower but also similar, and Thinkpads (before Lenovo bought them) are very robust hardware-wise.
The company is even asking customers and thinking about backtracking to old designs. It's wise decision. I thought I would never see this, especially after introducing island-style keyboards and the Superfish fiasco: http://youropinioncounts.lenovo.com/s/87869/Survey2/nc/
If you are in a hurry, I would recommend getting a x220 and then waiting to see what we get. The x220 was really good, except for a horrible trackpad and a slightly noisy fan.
For things that are linux specific, you can always use a VM through Vagrant (there's few practical reasons you'd need a Linux GUI).
If you truly want a "Hacker" laptop, then what you actually want is the Novena. :D https://www.crowdsupply.com/sutajio-kosagi/novena
- thinness does not matter that much. If you want your stuff to look cool, then it does, but for portability it doesn't. - thinness affects cooling. You don't want your battery get ruined, your CPU throttled and your lap burned. - expandability matters on the long run
I just replaced my 2013 rMBP. I needed the following: - expandable storage -- I can put 3 SSDs in this
- expandable memory - 4 DIMM slots, up to 64G RAM
- dockable
- trackpoint
- can drive UHD screens @ 60 Hz
- as Linux friendly as possible
- good keyboard
- good cooling
- IPS screen, min. fHD
I ended up buying the HP Zbook 15 G2. The only issue with that is UDH external screens and Linux-friendliness don't go together, because those displays require discrete GPU (Broadwells can drive UHD screens through MST, but most displays don't support that). The other alternative was the Thinkpad W550s, but I could get the G2 at half the price (and it's much more powerful).
I didn't buy:
- smaller devices because I'm working on this 10 hours a day sometimes, and portability itself wasn't enough to compensate for less power, less memory, worse cooling - Thinkpad .40 series because of their clickpads
- Dell Precisions because they're extremely bulky and HPs have better keyboard
- Macbooks because OSX was not an option for me after using it for 2.5 years, also they don't have a trackpoint and their cooling is really abysmal
- anything from smaller vendors like System76, etc. because they all use OEM chassis and they're a far cry from top-end HP, Dell, Lenovo and Apple chassis
I personally don't understand how could anyone recommend a 11" MBA to someone who wants to do serious work on it. A 11" screen is extremely uncomfortable for all-day coding; if you keep it docked all day then might make sense though.
I got it with Ubuntu preinstalled and it's been my favorite laptop so far.
Hypothetically, if I could get the same laptop that is thicker, but cheaper, but is the same weight and has full sized ports for things like ethernet (or ports that were removed like SD cards, firewire, etc) instead of requiring dongles and attachments, I would get the thicker one.
(A coworker bought a 15" Powerbook the same time I got my 12". We went to a conference and were lugging our laptops all day for a week. The weight difference took its toll on my coworker by the end of the week.)
Most students these days seem to be using Apple products, laptops or iPads. This makes it easy to deal with your University's IT department if/when they make you do special things to get access to their networks. (I remember the days when only Windows was supported and getting Mac/Linux to work with campus networks and services was a huge ordeal.)
As an entrepreneur, a lot of tech companies are mobile focused which means iOS is in the mix. To do any native development requires a Mac. And to do pitching/presentations, Macs are very nice for creating and presenting that type of stuff. (Guy Kawasaki has warned Windows users to expect to lose 20 minutes setting up your PowerPoint display for a pitch.) Additionally, VCs tend to use iPhones and iPads now...your Mac data will usually interoperate better.
For hacking, again, if mobile is a concern, Mac is the only platform that lets you do both iOS and Android. The Unix heritage on Mac makes dealing with the harder areas of Android development easier than on Windows (Linux is okay).
If you are doing heavy development, then a Macbook Pro is probably better. If you are doing light development, Air is fine. With Xcode, RAM is more important than CPU. So max out the RAM on any Air. (I don't know if the 12" Macbook will have enough RAM where you will be happy with Xcode.)
It's okay. The screen is okay, pretty bad backlight bleed.[1] It's got a weird memory configuration--you can run dual channel only up to 8GB. The keyboard is fantastic, but the touchpad is awful. [2] Apple's touchpad is unmatched, and induces less cramping than the trackpoint.
Windows is getting better. I think Windows 10 is pretty good. But its not better than OS X, and Visual Studio is the only Windows app I miss. Even Office 2016 is just as good on the Mac (unless you have particular Excel-related needs). Retina support is still far better in OS X, and its 2015 and a non-retina screen isn't acceptable any more.
[1] I got the AUO screen, I hear the LG is better, but that's one thing you risk on the PC side--everyone has less tight sourcing tolerances than Apple.
[2] The touchpad on my work-issued T430 is better. That's another fact of PC-life: Its pretty much a crapshot whether the next iteration of any given model will have major regressions in trackpad quality or battery life or screen quality. PC manufacturers just don't care--they'll source whatever part is cheapest.
Yeah, except when scrolling a website on a EUR2500 rMBP stutters. (That was one reason mine is sitting on the shelf.) And the charging cable breaks. The Macbook charging cable of the 27" Cinema Display also breaks, and it is built into the display so you can't just buy another one for $5. And it's nice and thin but now when it's 30 degrees in my room (I hate aircons and there's almost 40 outside) GPU and GPU both run over 90 Celsius even only 1 from the 4 CPU core is in use and fans are running at maximum. When an external display is connected the case above the top keyboard row is so hot that it burns my fingers.
I fully see the advantages of a Mac for development (for me that was mostly the *nix part of the system, i.e. the console), but it's not just roses. :)
I used to own a MacBook Pro, but had bad experiences with hardware failures and Apple sweeping such defects under the rug for as long as possible.
You need a server that is hosted in the internet, a desktop system with a good mouse and keyboard, and two or more screens, and a laptop that is portable and cheap.
I really can not see, how to combine those 3 different roles, into one machine, as those roles have different locations: Server room, desktop and shoulder bag.
For laptop the only requirements are: max 2lbs as one has to carry it, maximum $300 as a laptop can be damaged or stolen easy, and it must run 100% free software without binary blobs, when it comes to wifi and graphics.
Would really like to see Ubuntu AND Kali Linux laptop that supports these requests:
A decently high resolution screen (minimum of 1280x1024) wifi hacking capable (hardware that will work natively with Kali) Faster than ARM - for processing reasonable password hashing (not 3d GPU level) and running VM's of Windows
Thanks all including original poster.
Why Mac:
* It's Unix-like.
* Homebrew is fantastic for OSS package management.
* It's ubiquitous. (Yeah you could use Arch Linux instead of a Mac with Homebrew, but Homebrew will always get updates first.)
* Great battery life. (Linux often sucks at this.)
Why Retina:
* Text is extremely clear. It may seem like nothing before you've used it for a while, but you'll never go back.
* More real estate for side-by-side viewing of whatever you need.
* The Retina MBPs are actually quite light, enough so that I don't have MacBook Air envy ever.
Get a cheap wireless/bluetooth mouse that takes AA batteries and turn off the trackpad.
If carrying around a 5 lb laptop is an issue, you might want to go to the gym a little more often ;-)
Unless you have to do iOS work and need to have XCode, I wouldn't pay the 300% Apple tax. There should be something offered by Acer or Asus for $500-600 that would fit your needs. Get the cheapest one that has a decent processor/GPU (don't worry about the HD or memory, as long as the motherboard supports at least 8GB DDR3). Throw an SSD and some decent memory sticks in it, and install a clean version of Windows, without all the bloatware, or your favorite flavor of Linux.