Internship in SF led to a fulltime job offer – should I drop out and take it?
Here are my reasons for considering dropping out and taking it:
1) I don't like my program - a lot of the circuits/embedded systems will not be applicable to my career post-graduation. I tried transferring to Software Engineering but it was full
2) The salary and equity is competitive. I truly believe this company has a good chance at succeeding, so the equity could be worth something
3) I'd probably just work here post-graduation either way, so I'm not sure if going to school for 2 years then coming back here would be a good idea, when I could just stay here right now. (and, I probably wouldn't even be getting equity in 2 years considering the company is growing exponentially right now)
4) This company is very well known by recruiters in the Valley, and the people working here are all extremely brilliant, so this is a fantastic opportunity (both for my resume and for the skills I'd gain)
Thoughts, opinions? I've heard that I could easily get accepted back to UW a couple years down the line if I decide to go back? Also, how important are degrees really for top companies including Google and Facebook?
I have a meeting with our immigration lawyer tomorrow, but I was told that I could get a TN visa no problem (through a loophole - there is another person who was exactly in my position who' currently on a TN, so I know this does happen), then after a year get an H1 and eventually a greencard. Gonna clarify this with our lawyer.
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[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 41.5 ms ] threadWhat I learned in college wasn't really relevant to what I do as a professional. Will you miss out on the theoretical underpinnings without finishing your degree? Meh. I'd say yes if you were building hardware (where the physical properties of what you're building are well understood and define the project), but software is changing and evolving all the time. The only way to know how to do it right is to be a part of what's happening right now.
I don't personally know about what avenues are closed without a degree (e.x. large companies). I suspect tech has some of the lowest requirements for a pedigree if you've got a proven track record.
A word of caution: A friend went back to finish his degree some time after he dropped out, and found out he had just barely missed the deadline. All of his credits were now expired and he would have had to start over as a freshman. Just make sure that doesn't happen.
Of course if you find yourself violently recoiling at that argument, that'll tell you something too.
2. Companies don't disappear in two years; if they do, you don't want to join that company. There is no hurry for you to join the company now. In fact, you could intern every year and continue to build relationships in the valley and come back.
3. Degrees aren't that important for top companies.
4. You need to talk to the immigration lawyer. I don't think you can apply for an H1B without at least a Bachelors degree. The TN visa does not let you apply for a Green Card directly.
As for the immigration, I can confirm that you need at least a bachelors degree. I went through the H1-B (and GC) process and you can pretty much forget about it if you can't show at least equivalency. The main reason I finished mine and didn't do the exact thing you did (but 6 years ago) was for visa eligibility.
Be careful about saying TN, H1-B and GC in the same sentence. While an H1-B is a dual-intent visa (meaning you can pursue a GC), a TN is not. If you show intent to stay on a TN visa, that can hurt your chances in the future. This should be fine to talk about with your lawyer, but mum's the word when dealing with anyone in an official capacity.
2. If I continue to intern here (which is certainly an option - I have 2 more co-op terms left) I would be getting about $20k salary less, plus no equity
3. Thank you.
4. Meeting with the immigration lawyer is scheduled for tomorrow
Not a bad gig, and honestly if I were you, I'd take it. A degree really isn't that important anyway (for the goals you have, which I assume is to become a great engineer and build top notch products)
Seriously, the lack of a CS degree will screw you over. Maybe not with this job, but you don't expect to work at this place for your whole career, right?
You'll see "or equivalent experience" but you'd be surprised at how many web startups using bootstrap will test you for data structures + algorithms chops.
As an example: I'm talking about hopping on skype for front-end jobs in angular, and they have some guy snickering at me not being able to solve a pathfinding equation.
On one hand, there's a lot to recommend putting off the start of your career. On the other, if you're already awesome as a rising junior, you'll probably not be any less awesome as a graduate and have opportunities at that point. For me, the kicker is that you cannot get into the program you want at your university, and studying something that you don't love borders on tragedy [in the large, not on a class by class basis].
However, unless the employer is paying for the immigration attorney, I'd be skeptical of the prospects just based on my lay person's reading of the TN Visa requirements [1] and the description of the plan of attack as a loophole and the next step as an H1 visa.
Good luck.
[1]: http://www.nafsa.org/_/file/_/amresource/8cfr2146.htm
I have a strong feeling I know what company you're talking about as well (and no, I don't believe it's Github as someone else here does), I have to say that even if the company is full of brilliant people, you should also consider the relative risks in the field that they operate in. Bitcoin can be a risky business, even for the golden child.
My overall recommendation would be to stick with your degree. In a year and a half you wont have to worry about whether or not you can return to an undergrad if you wish, nor worry that a visa loophole will come back to bite you in the ass. If something happens and you need to find a new job, you wont have to worry about having to find one that will be willing to risk dealing with visa loopholes. Not to mention that you sound like you still have 2 coop terms left. Even here you could very likely return to this specific company for those terms if you wish, or (my recommendation) take advantage of the terms to explore different options.
Agreed about the visa though - I have a call scheduled with an immigration lawyer tomorrow, so I'll determine how difficult it is (if it's even possible) to get an H1 or GC.
Thank you for your other points - seriously, much appreciated.
You can always come back and do another coop at the same employer. As someone in 3A or 3B, you are really close to the end of your studies (and the courses in 4th year, along with FYDP, are the best parts of the program). Others have addressed some of the financial points. Obviously talking to a lawyer is a good idea.
Send me an email (in my profile), if you want to talk more about this.
Consider where you're leaving behind: KW is a rad area; I've been here in the startup world for just over 3 years (born and raised not too far away). A decent starting offer here is $60-80k, potentially more if you're at a 'name brand' company (I started at $65k for reference, with $50k the number I had in mind to stay local after wrapping up my CS degree). The cost of living here is way less than SF, so there's lots left over for actually spending on living.
If you really want to be in a city, go an hour east to Toronto and make your mark there.
I know the valley is a mystical, magical place, but if you're putting salary/equity high up on your list of "Pros", consider that you could do just as well, or better, in the area (when looking at purchasing power, cost of living, etc).