I just realized I forgot to mention this before: that shim actually did exist for about 10 years. It was deprecated in GTK3 and then finally removed in GTK4. If 10 years is too short a warning to give for removing a…
>Having a compatibility shim in GTK and testing that, once, would save any downstream user from having to do any work at all for this change. No it wouldn't, the downstream users would still have to test. Because in…
>Also your focus on the form and the distinction between the GNOME Desktop and the GNOME Foundation is deflective when we are primarily talking about user satisfaction for which you made no argument at all besides your…
> I was expressing my personal frustration and disappointment I understood that but that's different from saying everyone is being done a disservice. When you say that, what you're actually doing is accusing them of…
No, that's incorrect. It's not more efficient at all, and even if it was it would still be less efficient to do it in the toolkit instead of in a separate shim. I explained this in detail in my other comment. Also the…
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None of those apps need a tray though. Personally I have no problem using chat and email apps with only notifications. Something not being to your liking does not mean it's sabotage. >what GNOME did was to try and force…
I don't have any relationship or agenda. If you really want to know, I had an account here long ago but I received some very rude, hateful and harassing comments so I stopped posting and then lost the password. Is it…
>The end user of the kernel -- user space -- never sees any of this I mentioned it because despite that difference I don't think it's practically much different from a developer perspective. Big changes are still about…
>GNOME is most people's first experience of a Linux desktop. Perhaps that's proof that it isn't as bad as the vocal minority says it is? And if it was really that bad, wouldn't that be the distros' fault for continuing…
That's why I asked you some questions. If you don't answer my questions or clarify anything then there isn't any other way I can understand your point of view, sorry. You are the only one who can explain yourself.
Sorry but that's a really poor example and IMO not a valid complaint. I don't think they made the wrong decision there. There are quite a lot of other API changes in GTK4 so some tiny shims for only a couple APIs…
I can't agree with that, Wine has been around for a long time and it never really took off for that use. IMO the future of cross-platform is still the web, because "cross-platform" also includes smartphones now.…
>This thread is full of people trying to share experiences that you seem to not allow, Gnome 2 themes working well (for them) being one of them. The mistake you are making here is that someone not experiencing a bug…
>To me, most native apps look out-of-place and I avoid if possible That doesn't make sense, "out-of-place" here means with respect to the rest of the system and the shell. Doing things that way is guaranteed to result…
The themes didn't work well for me and I've talked to lots of other users who had the same experience. It was a broken feature and it was correct to remove it. If you're denying my experiences and telling me they're not…
Yeah and I'm saying that's not a bad thing or even a rare occurrence. Sometimes PRs can be de-prioritized or forgotten for reasons that are outside of anyone's control, developers are human beings so that just happens.…
You shouldn't avoid discussing what happened, I'm saying you should avoid making unfounded bad faith accusations. >We can all see with our own eyes how much GNOME cares about collaboration and interoperability with…
It is in the normal control panel, see "Reduce Animation" in the accessibility page. >All I want is literally the widgets Windows had 20 years ago in all platforms. This seems to me a very bizarre request. I mean, you…
I have no idea what you're referring to. Nothing changed, because it didn't actually work in the GTK2 days either. Actually it was worse then. Themes would break apps constantly. I remember always having to edit gtkrc…
>warn everyone who uses or is interested in Linux about it See, I think now you are being too overly dramatic. It's not that bad, I haven't encountered the scrolling bug in a long time. And let's not pretend that Cosmic…
That isn't possible in any scalable way in any toolkit. There's a good reason all the major commercial operating systems basically only support light/dark mode and maybe a couple other theme variants/options and that's…
The reason you aren't getting any feedback from GNOME developers is because this is a huge long rant without any real new information in it. The developers are already aware of what bugs are present and what features…
It's odd you say those things because I've been enjoying GNOME for years and I find they make great additions all the time. For me GTK4 has been a massive improvement over GTK3. There aren't actually any GNOME…
>I think it's fair to say, though that GTK4+libadwaita is "the GNOME toolkit", and GTK4 alone is just a much less capable, less extensible, less "batteries included" toolkit than GTK3 Your example shows the opposite…
I just realized I forgot to mention this before: that shim actually did exist for about 10 years. It was deprecated in GTK3 and then finally removed in GTK4. If 10 years is too short a warning to give for removing a…
>Having a compatibility shim in GTK and testing that, once, would save any downstream user from having to do any work at all for this change. No it wouldn't, the downstream users would still have to test. Because in…
>Also your focus on the form and the distinction between the GNOME Desktop and the GNOME Foundation is deflective when we are primarily talking about user satisfaction for which you made no argument at all besides your…
> I was expressing my personal frustration and disappointment I understood that but that's different from saying everyone is being done a disservice. When you say that, what you're actually doing is accusing them of…
No, that's incorrect. It's not more efficient at all, and even if it was it would still be less efficient to do it in the toolkit instead of in a separate shim. I explained this in detail in my other comment. Also the…
[flagged]
None of those apps need a tray though. Personally I have no problem using chat and email apps with only notifications. Something not being to your liking does not mean it's sabotage. >what GNOME did was to try and force…
I don't have any relationship or agenda. If you really want to know, I had an account here long ago but I received some very rude, hateful and harassing comments so I stopped posting and then lost the password. Is it…
>The end user of the kernel -- user space -- never sees any of this I mentioned it because despite that difference I don't think it's practically much different from a developer perspective. Big changes are still about…
>GNOME is most people's first experience of a Linux desktop. Perhaps that's proof that it isn't as bad as the vocal minority says it is? And if it was really that bad, wouldn't that be the distros' fault for continuing…
That's why I asked you some questions. If you don't answer my questions or clarify anything then there isn't any other way I can understand your point of view, sorry. You are the only one who can explain yourself.
Sorry but that's a really poor example and IMO not a valid complaint. I don't think they made the wrong decision there. There are quite a lot of other API changes in GTK4 so some tiny shims for only a couple APIs…
I can't agree with that, Wine has been around for a long time and it never really took off for that use. IMO the future of cross-platform is still the web, because "cross-platform" also includes smartphones now.…
>This thread is full of people trying to share experiences that you seem to not allow, Gnome 2 themes working well (for them) being one of them. The mistake you are making here is that someone not experiencing a bug…
>To me, most native apps look out-of-place and I avoid if possible That doesn't make sense, "out-of-place" here means with respect to the rest of the system and the shell. Doing things that way is guaranteed to result…
The themes didn't work well for me and I've talked to lots of other users who had the same experience. It was a broken feature and it was correct to remove it. If you're denying my experiences and telling me they're not…
Yeah and I'm saying that's not a bad thing or even a rare occurrence. Sometimes PRs can be de-prioritized or forgotten for reasons that are outside of anyone's control, developers are human beings so that just happens.…
You shouldn't avoid discussing what happened, I'm saying you should avoid making unfounded bad faith accusations. >We can all see with our own eyes how much GNOME cares about collaboration and interoperability with…
It is in the normal control panel, see "Reduce Animation" in the accessibility page. >All I want is literally the widgets Windows had 20 years ago in all platforms. This seems to me a very bizarre request. I mean, you…
I have no idea what you're referring to. Nothing changed, because it didn't actually work in the GTK2 days either. Actually it was worse then. Themes would break apps constantly. I remember always having to edit gtkrc…
>warn everyone who uses or is interested in Linux about it See, I think now you are being too overly dramatic. It's not that bad, I haven't encountered the scrolling bug in a long time. And let's not pretend that Cosmic…
That isn't possible in any scalable way in any toolkit. There's a good reason all the major commercial operating systems basically only support light/dark mode and maybe a couple other theme variants/options and that's…
The reason you aren't getting any feedback from GNOME developers is because this is a huge long rant without any real new information in it. The developers are already aware of what bugs are present and what features…
It's odd you say those things because I've been enjoying GNOME for years and I find they make great additions all the time. For me GTK4 has been a massive improvement over GTK3. There aren't actually any GNOME…
>I think it's fair to say, though that GTK4+libadwaita is "the GNOME toolkit", and GTK4 alone is just a much less capable, less extensible, less "batteries included" toolkit than GTK3 Your example shows the opposite…