It also is found most podcasts; if you hear a recommendation in a podcast, there is a high likelyhood that the recommended company sponsors|ed the podcast -- either through money, access, or 'perks'. Even in cases where…
This demonstrates why native matters; something like this would be impossible without being written and tuned for the target processor.
I'd your architecture is that complicated, you might be architecting your systems poorly.
What happens is that end users get stuck with complex black boxes that they can't fix or debug. VM appliances haven't take off for a reason.
If you guarantee that your binary has source, it has source. Guaranteed. If users only want binaries that guarantee they have source, they can insist on only downloading/acquiring binaries from people that guarantee…
> "Google contributed ports of NaCl for ARM and Amd64." So, Mono/C# in Chrome? If NaCl/PNaCl becomes available outside the Chrome App Store, that could be pretty exciting -- Mono does an excellent job with AOT…
> No, the 'point' you've been trying to push during this entire conversation is that proprietary software gives the end user the 'freedom' to choose not to use it, but somehow you claim that developers don't have that…
> Your 'logic' is ridicoulus, GPL is no more 'enforcing' sharing than proprietary software is 'enforcing' non-sharing. You call my logic ridiculous, and then you reiterate my entire point. The GPL is enforcing sharing…
> You dislike GPL because you as a proprietary developer can't use that code, which for some reason you think you have a 'right' to. You're being obtuse; I've never said what you claim. What I've said, repeatedly, is…
> If we speculate wildly, why not an "asm.js restricted operating mode"? Because we already had Jazelle, and it sucked, and we learned our lesson. A Jazelle that operates on ASCII-encoded bytecode with traps for…
All you need to do is perform NaCL validation of pages before marking them executable; this is what NaCL already does. You can either do this through a high-level "JIT API" that generates safe machine code from a…
> And how is the GPL intellectually dishonest? Replacing proprietary software by giving free software developers an advantage is an explicit goal of the GNU project. How is it dishonest? The usual explanation is "four…
> ... who are aren't going to make the jump as soon as HTML5 delivers everything they need? When will that be, exactly? The promise has been a long time coming, and in the meantime, the constitution of the industry is…
> You know what, never mind; you're an argumentative ill tempered child who doesn't know how to have a discussion properly. Have a nice day. One of us has stuck to discussing the topic, the other, discussing the person.…
> No such thing is happening ... You're asserting that there hasn't been a significant management and hiring shift in engineering departments over the past 5 years, moving away from what became a web monoculture in the…
What's your excuse? Mobile is growing hand-over-fist and web apps developers are still arguing about whether they're fast enough to compete, and whether we could possibly maybe actually move past HTML/CSS/JS sometime in…
No. As someone intimately involved in startup hiring, there's been a massive shift in the make-up of technology organizations. Mobile has gone from a side-show farmed out to consulting organizations to a mainstream…
> I don't follow that. You can't make a fast JS runtime in your previous examples (the JVM, PNaCl, .NET, etc.). I included ones you could, such a NaCL. And I should probably have also included the native platforms…
> There are far far worse systems for evolving widely used platforms. That's fine, but perhaps it would behoove Mozilla to not participate in dooming the web as a competitive application platform simply due to a…
Yes, the reality is that proprietary application platforms are taking over the application market, and that the web is slowly losing one of its major market advantages: a huge brain trust of web-only engineers and…
> I see; you're the type who thinks he's smarter than everyone in the industry ... You mean, like Google, who continually pushes to do exactly what I've described here, only to be stymied by: - Apple, who has no reason…
> What is your goal - speed? Code size? Portability? Security? That depends on the target. I selected them because they represent different aspects of the state of the art. > ... and I would argue that modern JS VMs are…
That didn't stop them from trying to launch a mobile phone platform in competition with Apple, Microsoft, and Google. If they're willing to accept that risk, by comparison, how large of a risk is trying to push through…
Actually, as an liberally licensed open-source author, I wish to "escape the network effects of the GPL" because I want proprietary companies to use my software, too. That means I have to escape the GPL despite your…
It's reality because Mozilla makes it a reality. See how this is a circular argument? Meanwhile, native mobile and desktop keep growing, and growing, and the web as an application platform loses out, because none of the…
It also is found most podcasts; if you hear a recommendation in a podcast, there is a high likelyhood that the recommended company sponsors|ed the podcast -- either through money, access, or 'perks'. Even in cases where…
This demonstrates why native matters; something like this would be impossible without being written and tuned for the target processor.
I'd your architecture is that complicated, you might be architecting your systems poorly.
What happens is that end users get stuck with complex black boxes that they can't fix or debug. VM appliances haven't take off for a reason.
If you guarantee that your binary has source, it has source. Guaranteed. If users only want binaries that guarantee they have source, they can insist on only downloading/acquiring binaries from people that guarantee…
> "Google contributed ports of NaCl for ARM and Amd64." So, Mono/C# in Chrome? If NaCl/PNaCl becomes available outside the Chrome App Store, that could be pretty exciting -- Mono does an excellent job with AOT…
> No, the 'point' you've been trying to push during this entire conversation is that proprietary software gives the end user the 'freedom' to choose not to use it, but somehow you claim that developers don't have that…
> Your 'logic' is ridicoulus, GPL is no more 'enforcing' sharing than proprietary software is 'enforcing' non-sharing. You call my logic ridiculous, and then you reiterate my entire point. The GPL is enforcing sharing…
> You dislike GPL because you as a proprietary developer can't use that code, which for some reason you think you have a 'right' to. You're being obtuse; I've never said what you claim. What I've said, repeatedly, is…
> If we speculate wildly, why not an "asm.js restricted operating mode"? Because we already had Jazelle, and it sucked, and we learned our lesson. A Jazelle that operates on ASCII-encoded bytecode with traps for…
All you need to do is perform NaCL validation of pages before marking them executable; this is what NaCL already does. You can either do this through a high-level "JIT API" that generates safe machine code from a…
> And how is the GPL intellectually dishonest? Replacing proprietary software by giving free software developers an advantage is an explicit goal of the GNU project. How is it dishonest? The usual explanation is "four…
> ... who are aren't going to make the jump as soon as HTML5 delivers everything they need? When will that be, exactly? The promise has been a long time coming, and in the meantime, the constitution of the industry is…
> You know what, never mind; you're an argumentative ill tempered child who doesn't know how to have a discussion properly. Have a nice day. One of us has stuck to discussing the topic, the other, discussing the person.…
> No such thing is happening ... You're asserting that there hasn't been a significant management and hiring shift in engineering departments over the past 5 years, moving away from what became a web monoculture in the…
What's your excuse? Mobile is growing hand-over-fist and web apps developers are still arguing about whether they're fast enough to compete, and whether we could possibly maybe actually move past HTML/CSS/JS sometime in…
No. As someone intimately involved in startup hiring, there's been a massive shift in the make-up of technology organizations. Mobile has gone from a side-show farmed out to consulting organizations to a mainstream…
> I don't follow that. You can't make a fast JS runtime in your previous examples (the JVM, PNaCl, .NET, etc.). I included ones you could, such a NaCL. And I should probably have also included the native platforms…
> There are far far worse systems for evolving widely used platforms. That's fine, but perhaps it would behoove Mozilla to not participate in dooming the web as a competitive application platform simply due to a…
Yes, the reality is that proprietary application platforms are taking over the application market, and that the web is slowly losing one of its major market advantages: a huge brain trust of web-only engineers and…
> I see; you're the type who thinks he's smarter than everyone in the industry ... You mean, like Google, who continually pushes to do exactly what I've described here, only to be stymied by: - Apple, who has no reason…
> What is your goal - speed? Code size? Portability? Security? That depends on the target. I selected them because they represent different aspects of the state of the art. > ... and I would argue that modern JS VMs are…
That didn't stop them from trying to launch a mobile phone platform in competition with Apple, Microsoft, and Google. If they're willing to accept that risk, by comparison, how large of a risk is trying to push through…
Actually, as an liberally licensed open-source author, I wish to "escape the network effects of the GPL" because I want proprietary companies to use my software, too. That means I have to escape the GPL despite your…
It's reality because Mozilla makes it a reality. See how this is a circular argument? Meanwhile, native mobile and desktop keep growing, and growing, and the web as an application platform loses out, because none of the…