Yep, my mention of do/end or squigglies was just a caveat on the Ruby-is-more-terse-in-this-example statement in the context of anonymous functions or blocks. I wish there was a language that won on both terseness…
First of all, your objection to anonymous functions with an example that names the function in two different places kind of takes us off topic from the discussion of "anonymous" functions, but I will still respond.…
I don't think the fights should be vicious, but I think the stakes are fairly high, and even though Ruby and Python are close cousins in the grand scheme of things, they really do represent profoundly different…
You might be taking the statement out of context, and you are certainly quoting it out of context (although brevity is appreciated.) The statement in the talk was made to illustrate the differences between Ruby and…
Decorators and annotations are very useful in Python, but I still like the terseness of Ruby--no need to define "hello()". Of course, Python wins on a different kind of terseness--no do/end--but that is mostly…
I wholeheartedly agree that all languages should be judged on the quality of their libraries and implementation, as well as the success of the projects implemented on top of them. Ruby and Python have a pretty good…
No worries. I am actually curious to your thoughts about DSLs. I love Python, but it is not really optimized for DSLs. You can obviously implement a DSL in Python, but embedding it is another story.
The Laurnence Olivier analogy is stupid, inaccurate, and irrelevant.
If 0.001% of the world's population uses it, I think that comes out to something like 60,000 people. You can see here that I've already solved the problem of sharing SHPAML output using HTML:…
This seems like a wild exaggeration: "The behaviour of every function in a mutable, imperative environment is dependent upon the state of all of the other (variables|attributes|bindings|whatever) in your program at the…
I understand the objection to having too many mutually incompatible data formats, but I don't understand how Markdown is exempt from that concern. It achieves the goal of looking like what "people would write anyway,"…
If my post made it sound like I am trying to stop people from doing anything, then it just came out wrong. I do think there are legitimate reasons to mostly build documents within a full-featured programming language,…
It is not a promise, or even a goal, of SHPAML that it will relieve you the burden of understand the final output syntax, whether that is HTML or HTML combined with some template language. SHPAML users are expected to…
First of all, sorry about the name. SHPAML is not a pseudo-programming syntax. It is purely a markup language, so there are no programming constructs. SHPAML very deliberately tries to be a lightweight abstraction on…
Modern IDEs inject close tags and angle brackets into the source document. The SHPAML preprocessor injects that syntax into the target document. The use case applies to the person who wants clean syntax in the source…
The reason I made SHPAML a one-way preprocessor is that my use cases haven't yet given me a compelling reason to write a round tripper, and preprocessing is simple to automate. I do not know what your criteria are for…
Other folks have tried to solve the problem of cleanly creating HTML from within Python itself, which I think is what you are alluding to. It's not a goal for me. To the extent that my markup is pretty static, but the…
I did not post the link here, nor did I call anything "beautiful," but I presume that the reason the original poster posted the link on a "discussion" site was to solicit "discussion." Immediate and forceful…
I understand the use case, and if people are frequently sending you patches for your HTML, you probably want to make HTML the authoritative source. Do people frequently send you patches for HTML that you author? SHPAML…
Ah, that is indeed a nice feature. When I first looked at haml, I was all about the indentation (being from Python) and rather skeptical of the CSS sugar. But once I ported the CSS sugar to SHPAML, I found I started…
My problem with HTML is not its lack of simplicity; it is its verbosity. SHPAML solves the (fairly) trivial problem of making HTML less verbose. The abstraction pays off for me insofar as I expect to use SHPAML for the…
You don't technically need to install python to use SHPAML. You can try it online: http://shpaml.webfactional.com/tutorial/7 SHPAML is mostly targeted at Python users for now. If you are not using Python, but you like…
I wrote the comment about Wikipedia only to illustrate that HTML, like any standard, is not perfect for every use case. I find HTML expressive and generally easy to use. I wrote SHPAML in a way that I hope preserves the…
SHPAML is definitely targeted at Python users and people who like meaningful whitespace (and associated terseness). Glad you like it! I have also been hand writing HTML for well over a decade too (as well as other means…
The movitation behind SHPAML isn't necessarily just to make the markup easier to write; it also tries to make it easier to read.
Yep, my mention of do/end or squigglies was just a caveat on the Ruby-is-more-terse-in-this-example statement in the context of anonymous functions or blocks. I wish there was a language that won on both terseness…
First of all, your objection to anonymous functions with an example that names the function in two different places kind of takes us off topic from the discussion of "anonymous" functions, but I will still respond.…
I don't think the fights should be vicious, but I think the stakes are fairly high, and even though Ruby and Python are close cousins in the grand scheme of things, they really do represent profoundly different…
You might be taking the statement out of context, and you are certainly quoting it out of context (although brevity is appreciated.) The statement in the talk was made to illustrate the differences between Ruby and…
Decorators and annotations are very useful in Python, but I still like the terseness of Ruby--no need to define "hello()". Of course, Python wins on a different kind of terseness--no do/end--but that is mostly…
I wholeheartedly agree that all languages should be judged on the quality of their libraries and implementation, as well as the success of the projects implemented on top of them. Ruby and Python have a pretty good…
No worries. I am actually curious to your thoughts about DSLs. I love Python, but it is not really optimized for DSLs. You can obviously implement a DSL in Python, but embedding it is another story.
The Laurnence Olivier analogy is stupid, inaccurate, and irrelevant.
If 0.001% of the world's population uses it, I think that comes out to something like 60,000 people. You can see here that I've already solved the problem of sharing SHPAML output using HTML:…
This seems like a wild exaggeration: "The behaviour of every function in a mutable, imperative environment is dependent upon the state of all of the other (variables|attributes|bindings|whatever) in your program at the…
I understand the objection to having too many mutually incompatible data formats, but I don't understand how Markdown is exempt from that concern. It achieves the goal of looking like what "people would write anyway,"…
If my post made it sound like I am trying to stop people from doing anything, then it just came out wrong. I do think there are legitimate reasons to mostly build documents within a full-featured programming language,…
It is not a promise, or even a goal, of SHPAML that it will relieve you the burden of understand the final output syntax, whether that is HTML or HTML combined with some template language. SHPAML users are expected to…
First of all, sorry about the name. SHPAML is not a pseudo-programming syntax. It is purely a markup language, so there are no programming constructs. SHPAML very deliberately tries to be a lightweight abstraction on…
Modern IDEs inject close tags and angle brackets into the source document. The SHPAML preprocessor injects that syntax into the target document. The use case applies to the person who wants clean syntax in the source…
The reason I made SHPAML a one-way preprocessor is that my use cases haven't yet given me a compelling reason to write a round tripper, and preprocessing is simple to automate. I do not know what your criteria are for…
Other folks have tried to solve the problem of cleanly creating HTML from within Python itself, which I think is what you are alluding to. It's not a goal for me. To the extent that my markup is pretty static, but the…
I did not post the link here, nor did I call anything "beautiful," but I presume that the reason the original poster posted the link on a "discussion" site was to solicit "discussion." Immediate and forceful…
I understand the use case, and if people are frequently sending you patches for your HTML, you probably want to make HTML the authoritative source. Do people frequently send you patches for HTML that you author? SHPAML…
Ah, that is indeed a nice feature. When I first looked at haml, I was all about the indentation (being from Python) and rather skeptical of the CSS sugar. But once I ported the CSS sugar to SHPAML, I found I started…
My problem with HTML is not its lack of simplicity; it is its verbosity. SHPAML solves the (fairly) trivial problem of making HTML less verbose. The abstraction pays off for me insofar as I expect to use SHPAML for the…
You don't technically need to install python to use SHPAML. You can try it online: http://shpaml.webfactional.com/tutorial/7 SHPAML is mostly targeted at Python users for now. If you are not using Python, but you like…
I wrote the comment about Wikipedia only to illustrate that HTML, like any standard, is not perfect for every use case. I find HTML expressive and generally easy to use. I wrote SHPAML in a way that I hope preserves the…
SHPAML is definitely targeted at Python users and people who like meaningful whitespace (and associated terseness). Glad you like it! I have also been hand writing HTML for well over a decade too (as well as other means…
The movitation behind SHPAML isn't necessarily just to make the markup easier to write; it also tries to make it easier to read.