> Ideally type-checking, linting, highlighting and formatting would run in one language service doing incremental parsing and updates to a shared AST on every keystroke. I think this is the reason Biome (originally…
Here is the answer I got from vjeux: > There's a lot of fast web tooling being written in rust those days. https://twitter.com/Vjeux/status/1722769322299609565 I don't buy it. I think vjeux is riding the hype.
Sean Baxter is doing a decent job with his Circle compiler, so I hear. https://www.circle-lang.org/
Unfortunately, we live in the real world where compilers do not do the things that you suggest that they ought to.
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about the benchmarks? I run `cargo clean` before each benchmark. That should clean up changes to third-party crates, right?
I'd love to try Zig and Jai for this purpose, but they are not stable yet. If either becomes stable, I'll happily re-run this experiment. Nim doesn't look like the language for me.
> Definitely check [Val and Carbon] out if you're looking for a C++ replacement! I don't want to base my project on an experimental language like Carbon or Val. I want a C++ replacement which compiles quickly. Do Carbon…
> If your main conclusion is based on full builds, i would urge you to re-evaluate. It's not. I show several charts comparing incremental builds too.
Good question. The author of Zig claims that dev build times will be amazing. One technique is to avoid LLVM. Another technique is to integrate the linker. But all of that is a work-in-progress project.
> I don't know enough C++ or Rust to judge but is it possible that they are optimized around Rust that isn't C++ style? I know I have seen articles about other languages where some very minor changes make a huge…
I have found Clang's -ftime-trace flag helpful in finding bloated #include-s and templates. Also, I have analyzed the .ninja_log file (for CMake+Ninja) to find slow-to-compile .cpp files.
> They seem to have chosen to use mold for C++ and not for Rust after seeing that it gave little benefit for small projects, but I would expect that to change as the project scales. The benchmarks show Mold for both…
> I’m very confident that Rust would fare considerably better with 24 17.1k-line crates (410k lines, larger due to duplicating the entire thing rather than just the lexer) than with the one 104.4k-line crate apparently…
> if I want faster development (among other things), I use an interpreted scripting language. If I want a fast end product (among other things) I compile and optimize to machine code beforehand I want both. I was hoping…
> I assume it also reduces size of created object-files? Normal template instantiations are deduplicated by the linker. Total object file size is smaller with explicit template instantiations, but the size of the final…
Current settings according to BIOS: Target CPU Speed: 3400MHz Target DRAM Frequency: 800MHz Target FCLK Frequency: 1800MHz DRAM timings: 19/20-19-19-19-39 (The DRAM CAS# Latency setting is set to 19, but "CHA" and "CHB"…
> I would expect an idiomatic implementation to drastically go down in lines of code Can you give an example of where something in the project could be, say, 20 lines of code instead of 30?…
> Raise the FCLK (Fabric Clock) to 1900. Hmm, I think I did this, or something like this. I'llcheck tomorrow. (If I did, then my comment about not overclocking the CPU is misleading!)
> I just randomly looked at one part: linked vector. How would Rust LinkedVector's implementation have fewer lines than C++'s linked_vector? > It would be a great experiment to use lots of external libraries. You might…
> A recent change[0] on nightly rustc might help with incremental builds. I tested with rustc Git commit c7572670a1302f5c7e245d069200e22da9df0316, which (I think) includes that change. > And for repeated clean + full…
>> Someone has to implement them. Note that they're also implemented in the C++ code, so the comparison is fair. > > I'm not sure I buy this argument in code like yours which almost invariably should just use the…
No, I'll stay far away from them, thanks. ;P
> Of course it exists in C++, and has done since before Rust even existed. Not in C++'s standard library until C++20.
It is a beast. I love my MacBook Pro!
I'd wager that the C++ compiler does more work churning through #include-s than the Rust compiler does tracking borrows.
> Ideally type-checking, linting, highlighting and formatting would run in one language service doing incremental parsing and updates to a shared AST on every keystroke. I think this is the reason Biome (originally…
Here is the answer I got from vjeux: > There's a lot of fast web tooling being written in rust those days. https://twitter.com/Vjeux/status/1722769322299609565 I don't buy it. I think vjeux is riding the hype.
Sean Baxter is doing a decent job with his Circle compiler, so I hear. https://www.circle-lang.org/
Unfortunately, we live in the real world where compilers do not do the things that you suggest that they ought to.
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about the benchmarks? I run `cargo clean` before each benchmark. That should clean up changes to third-party crates, right?
I'd love to try Zig and Jai for this purpose, but they are not stable yet. If either becomes stable, I'll happily re-run this experiment. Nim doesn't look like the language for me.
> Definitely check [Val and Carbon] out if you're looking for a C++ replacement! I don't want to base my project on an experimental language like Carbon or Val. I want a C++ replacement which compiles quickly. Do Carbon…
> If your main conclusion is based on full builds, i would urge you to re-evaluate. It's not. I show several charts comparing incremental builds too.
Good question. The author of Zig claims that dev build times will be amazing. One technique is to avoid LLVM. Another technique is to integrate the linker. But all of that is a work-in-progress project.
> I don't know enough C++ or Rust to judge but is it possible that they are optimized around Rust that isn't C++ style? I know I have seen articles about other languages where some very minor changes make a huge…
I have found Clang's -ftime-trace flag helpful in finding bloated #include-s and templates. Also, I have analyzed the .ninja_log file (for CMake+Ninja) to find slow-to-compile .cpp files.
> They seem to have chosen to use mold for C++ and not for Rust after seeing that it gave little benefit for small projects, but I would expect that to change as the project scales. The benchmarks show Mold for both…
> I’m very confident that Rust would fare considerably better with 24 17.1k-line crates (410k lines, larger due to duplicating the entire thing rather than just the lexer) than with the one 104.4k-line crate apparently…
> if I want faster development (among other things), I use an interpreted scripting language. If I want a fast end product (among other things) I compile and optimize to machine code beforehand I want both. I was hoping…
> I assume it also reduces size of created object-files? Normal template instantiations are deduplicated by the linker. Total object file size is smaller with explicit template instantiations, but the size of the final…
Current settings according to BIOS: Target CPU Speed: 3400MHz Target DRAM Frequency: 800MHz Target FCLK Frequency: 1800MHz DRAM timings: 19/20-19-19-19-39 (The DRAM CAS# Latency setting is set to 19, but "CHA" and "CHB"…
> I would expect an idiomatic implementation to drastically go down in lines of code Can you give an example of where something in the project could be, say, 20 lines of code instead of 30?…
> Raise the FCLK (Fabric Clock) to 1900. Hmm, I think I did this, or something like this. I'llcheck tomorrow. (If I did, then my comment about not overclocking the CPU is misleading!)
> I just randomly looked at one part: linked vector. How would Rust LinkedVector's implementation have fewer lines than C++'s linked_vector? > It would be a great experiment to use lots of external libraries. You might…
> A recent change[0] on nightly rustc might help with incremental builds. I tested with rustc Git commit c7572670a1302f5c7e245d069200e22da9df0316, which (I think) includes that change. > And for repeated clean + full…
>> Someone has to implement them. Note that they're also implemented in the C++ code, so the comparison is fair. > > I'm not sure I buy this argument in code like yours which almost invariably should just use the…
No, I'll stay far away from them, thanks. ;P
> Of course it exists in C++, and has done since before Rust even existed. Not in C++'s standard library until C++20.
It is a beast. I love my MacBook Pro!
I'd wager that the C++ compiler does more work churning through #include-s than the Rust compiler does tracking borrows.