I'm not attacking you or asking you to defend a position, I'm asking for clarification because I legitimately do not understand what the issue is. I totally agree with you, it is not helping anyone to become defensive…
On Windows, if there has been value in putting those tasks in a GUI in the control panel, they will do it. It's the same deal. Yes you can technically build a system without dbus or systemd or polkit or gettext or the C…
>I asked my computer to do something as basic as play sound, something that worked for decades without GUI sudo Sure, security also was not great for decades. I know what you mean you don't have time to vet packages,…
>Please don't speak for everyone. It's exactly this patronizing we-know-better-than-you attitude that makes users hate their corporate software vendors. I'm not speaking of corporations here, this is basically every…
After a lot of recent events, I don't feel comfortable judging any open source project on the speed at which they fix bugs or the way they communicate about it. In open source there is no obligation for anyone to fix…
I can't figure out what the problem here is, are you trying to run systemd with a kernel with cgroups compiled out? I don't see how that's a show stopping bug, from the discussion there it was never supported.
>If I need elevated privileges it's always a one-off job, which means I need a commandline anyway. This is why polkit actions are the way they are, so you actually have a chance of being able to encode those one-off…
I don't understand what you mean by a few people get to define it. This stuff is used by basically every desktop environment on Linux. You have to either use it or write something very similar to it if you want to have…
I agree it's not particularly useful for home users, I expect most would go with the defaults provided by their distro and leave it there. This is meant for corporate deployments where sysadmins might need to write more…
Yes, polkit does have some overlap with sudo. What it has over sudo is a real API, programs can use it to authenticate an IPC request for an action to a privileged daemon while that daemon is running.
If those checks always fail, you've now lost that functionality to do anything requiring elevated permissions and made your system less useful. You could get it back by installing a suid root tool like sudo/doas but…
Is that really any dumber than doing any similarly dangerous industrial jobs that require a lot of training? Or something else dangerous in entertainment like being a Hollywood stuntman, or being Siegfried & Roy? I'm…
I'm sorry, now I really don't understand. If these libraries shipped with your distro, you asked for them. If they were dependencies of a package you installed, you asked for them. It's bizarre to me that there are…
Sorry but if you keep falling back to the terminal to do things I would say you're not really using a desktop. What's the purpose of pointing this out? Yes, you can do whatever you want in Linux by opening the terminal…
I detailed this in another comment, the reason desktops use it is to get those macOS-style permission dialogs that pop up when you try to take some privileged action. I don't think any desktop distribution wants to ask…
You can still get realtime priority for threads without rtkit but you will have to set the appropriate permissions on your user. See the section on privileges: https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/sched.7.html I…
Or it could be because those libraries actually do something and users want them? I really don't get these complaints. Is the C library an "invasive weed" because C programs require an ABI compatible C library to run?
Creating another group every time and asking the sysadmin to add you to the group when you want a new permission is not an appropriate solution for the desktop. It also isn't fine grained (what if you want to only grant…
>given the "move fast, break things, wontfix" approach the systemd authors currently have with the project. I don't understand where anyone is getting this impression from, that describes the opposite of my experience…
Thanks for the clarification. In practice what that means to me is you need more people backporting fixes to the old branch. My experience: it's boring, thankless work and it doesn't pay unless there is some serious…
If I'm wrong then I'm interested to know why. I'm willing to listen to what you have to say, but you have to actually say something. Thanks.
A pid file is never actually reliable though. Since the supervised process has control over it, it can write any number it wants in there and trick the service manager into signaling the wrong process. As long as the…
That doesn't seem very practical. Viewing something as dumb before learning anything about it is holding a prejudice towards it.
>is way too complex for the given functionality, and is completely unneeded in the first place--yes, get rid of the damn thing. Unless of course you enjoy getting "your" system OWNED and dominated by bad actors. This is…
>Ownership attestation is a pretty common service. Law companies do the same thing for home titles during real estate purchases, and there's definitely more than one provider of that service! Sure, but now we're back to…
I'm not attacking you or asking you to defend a position, I'm asking for clarification because I legitimately do not understand what the issue is. I totally agree with you, it is not helping anyone to become defensive…
On Windows, if there has been value in putting those tasks in a GUI in the control panel, they will do it. It's the same deal. Yes you can technically build a system without dbus or systemd or polkit or gettext or the C…
>I asked my computer to do something as basic as play sound, something that worked for decades without GUI sudo Sure, security also was not great for decades. I know what you mean you don't have time to vet packages,…
>Please don't speak for everyone. It's exactly this patronizing we-know-better-than-you attitude that makes users hate their corporate software vendors. I'm not speaking of corporations here, this is basically every…
After a lot of recent events, I don't feel comfortable judging any open source project on the speed at which they fix bugs or the way they communicate about it. In open source there is no obligation for anyone to fix…
I can't figure out what the problem here is, are you trying to run systemd with a kernel with cgroups compiled out? I don't see how that's a show stopping bug, from the discussion there it was never supported.
>If I need elevated privileges it's always a one-off job, which means I need a commandline anyway. This is why polkit actions are the way they are, so you actually have a chance of being able to encode those one-off…
I don't understand what you mean by a few people get to define it. This stuff is used by basically every desktop environment on Linux. You have to either use it or write something very similar to it if you want to have…
I agree it's not particularly useful for home users, I expect most would go with the defaults provided by their distro and leave it there. This is meant for corporate deployments where sysadmins might need to write more…
Yes, polkit does have some overlap with sudo. What it has over sudo is a real API, programs can use it to authenticate an IPC request for an action to a privileged daemon while that daemon is running.
If those checks always fail, you've now lost that functionality to do anything requiring elevated permissions and made your system less useful. You could get it back by installing a suid root tool like sudo/doas but…
Is that really any dumber than doing any similarly dangerous industrial jobs that require a lot of training? Or something else dangerous in entertainment like being a Hollywood stuntman, or being Siegfried & Roy? I'm…
I'm sorry, now I really don't understand. If these libraries shipped with your distro, you asked for them. If they were dependencies of a package you installed, you asked for them. It's bizarre to me that there are…
Sorry but if you keep falling back to the terminal to do things I would say you're not really using a desktop. What's the purpose of pointing this out? Yes, you can do whatever you want in Linux by opening the terminal…
I detailed this in another comment, the reason desktops use it is to get those macOS-style permission dialogs that pop up when you try to take some privileged action. I don't think any desktop distribution wants to ask…
You can still get realtime priority for threads without rtkit but you will have to set the appropriate permissions on your user. See the section on privileges: https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/man7/sched.7.html I…
Or it could be because those libraries actually do something and users want them? I really don't get these complaints. Is the C library an "invasive weed" because C programs require an ABI compatible C library to run?
Creating another group every time and asking the sysadmin to add you to the group when you want a new permission is not an appropriate solution for the desktop. It also isn't fine grained (what if you want to only grant…
>given the "move fast, break things, wontfix" approach the systemd authors currently have with the project. I don't understand where anyone is getting this impression from, that describes the opposite of my experience…
Thanks for the clarification. In practice what that means to me is you need more people backporting fixes to the old branch. My experience: it's boring, thankless work and it doesn't pay unless there is some serious…
If I'm wrong then I'm interested to know why. I'm willing to listen to what you have to say, but you have to actually say something. Thanks.
A pid file is never actually reliable though. Since the supervised process has control over it, it can write any number it wants in there and trick the service manager into signaling the wrong process. As long as the…
That doesn't seem very practical. Viewing something as dumb before learning anything about it is holding a prejudice towards it.
>is way too complex for the given functionality, and is completely unneeded in the first place--yes, get rid of the damn thing. Unless of course you enjoy getting "your" system OWNED and dominated by bad actors. This is…
>Ownership attestation is a pretty common service. Law companies do the same thing for home titles during real estate purchases, and there's definitely more than one provider of that service! Sure, but now we're back to…