As a youngster I rode a unicycle ... Now I want one of the self.balancing motorized ones. The "transportation" device described in this article is totally unappealing compared to both powered and unpowered skateboards.
Cool toy but seems gimmicky. The research just keeps piling up about how sitting at our desks all day is terrible for our health... That we need to get up and walk and move, the exact thing this product seems to be trying to outsource. Too bad we evolved to move about our environments using our legs, instead of stay immobile in a dark swampy cave with bio-luminescent algae interfaces.
Between this, electric skateboards and scooters, and the half dozen other devices I've seen popping up - every day we're inching farther along a trajectory to Wall-E status. These devices are inherently anti-walking and anti-exercise (contrasted to, say, a car, which can be used as such, but also provides utility far beyond what walking can accomplish).
Cars are infinitely more anti-walking, inasmuch as they require the creation of non-walkable environments (and, correspondingly, the elimination of walkable environments). These, in contrast, can easily coexist with walking.
Nothing is stopping you from being active with purpose. Go to the gym, run, bike, etc. I currently own a solowheel and it's been a lifesaver. I'd just be taking transit otherwise, I'd say doing this over transit is better for you.
That's true, but humans are generally creatures of convenience and follow the path of least resistance. Today people are forced to walk in many situations where they have no feasible alternative (can't afford it, transit doesn't go there, etc). It seems pretty evident that, on the whole, the proliferation of these devices will contribute to less exercise and more obesity.
It was gimmicky for me until it showed him walking with his mom. My grandmother used to love going for walks but now gets too tired too fast. I'm not saying I'd buy one of these just for that use case, but that's the moment that made me see realistic applications. Could work well with a "granny grocery cart", extending the time a person can stay independent as they age without being as cumbersome as a wheelchair.
The lack of movement causes bone degeneration. In the majority of broken hip cases, the hip breaks AND THEN the person falls. What your grandmother needs is to do squats and have mild but abrupt force applied to her bones.
My thought, exactly. This model obviously isn't suitable, but with a rapidly aging population here in Japan (and elsewhere), I'm glad to see new(-ish) innovation being made.
Once the tech is there, the need will drive the eventual designs.
A few of us at my work bought some similar type devices, but with two wheel, like a mini-segway. They are definately more of a toy -- they're a lot of fun to ride around on but not that appropriate for day to day transport. They're actually very stable and intuitive and very easy to get on and off. The learning curve is < 60 seconds. The big issue is that with the small hard wheels small bumps cause it to lurch and can throw you off face first. Had someone with a minor wrist sprain and a fractured elbow basically hitting small bumps and falling off. Would surely not want my grandma using one.
I would argue that the typical Japanese consumer walks much more than in the US. Thus, I imagine users would augment their current walking routines. Getting around in a large metropolitan area is the problem, but how you do it can vary. walk+bike, walk+train, cooltoy+walk+train, etc.
I, for example, love walking - on average 15k steps a day. But some days I simply don't have the time. Or I have so many errands to do that I can spend over 4 hours to get everywhere unless I use a cab or public transport.
That's why I just got myself onewheel (still on the way to me). I expect it to be faster than any other mean of a transportation.
Based on its design, I can't imagine it going very far or very fast. The appear (what there was) of the Segway is that it will allow a normal human to go much further, much faster than would be possible by walking. And without breaking a sweat.
With the tiny wheels, I'd think it would be a rough ride anywhere near where I live... with the uneven sidewalks and other transitions needed.
One practical if very niche use I could see for this would be doing steady shots when filming. I don't think it would let you do anything new but it might make doing some types of shots easier.
I want one of these so bad. The two wheel self balancing boards that are popping right now are so cool and this looks way cooler.
That said, the current ones are heavy as hell because they are all battery, I'm interested to know what the deal is with capacity / weight for this one.
i think a lot of power gets wasted on self balancing. this things balancing gets taken care of by the four wheels and frees the battery into pure propulsion. also maybe it can recharge on downhill slopes, something a self balancer cant do.
Agreed. As a 20 year+ street skateboarder, I can tell you that even with larger and softer urethane (85-90A) wheels, a pebble the size of a tic tac will send you to ground rapidly.
The key is to over time develop skills of controlling weight on your board. I suppose this design could be modified some, but more likely that the driver/rider will need to learn some skills from skateboarders :)
I have a piece of titanium in my orbital bone from when I ran over a little rock when inline skating. If this thing hits a rock you'll go flying. Really hard.
I suspect that what's more likely to happen is that the board will wedge in a hole, stop moving, and you'll simply find yourself stepping forwards off it.
The standing posture means that you're braced for a step anyway, and the speed is totally compatible with your mark I human undercarriage system. It's not like you're on a skateboard going at 30kph. Plus you're not fastened into it.
I actually think it's a really interesting and subtle piece of design. I want one. (Plus I have to admire anything that looks quite that stupid.)
In the video he does run on tiled stones even and over a small gap, see 0:39 to 0:49. It looks like he's not struggling but it's such a closeup that you cannot see if he lost balance or not afterwards. I'm still very skeptical though, that gap would be quite hard to cross on a skateboard without a small jump and on a skateboard your center of gravity is almost 2 feet further back than on this thing. Maybe the propulsion in the wheels help.
I'd be super worried riding this in anything other than a smooth indoor environment, as it looks like the smallest chunk of gravel could send you flying.
But I think the non-self-balancing but still weight-sensing control scheme has a lot of promise (I've built a few of theses myself: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=49557...). I've found segway-style vehicles really twitchy to ride (since they'll literally tip over if they don't react quickly and forcefully enough), whereas basic weight sensing control is super intuitive (much more so than, say, the hand control on the Boosted boards).
Is it possible that the front wheels being powered could climb up a small stone, unlike a skateboard that is kind of pushed horizontally into it by momentum?
Its great to see so many new approaches. I'm the last person to know which will catch on, but with all this variety we're likely to converge on the right device.
The expensive lesson of the Segway: people don't want to look like a dork. It's hard to quantify exactly but only mall cops look natural on a Segway.
So twice normal walking speed is good. I can walk at 10 kmph, and I can walk 12 km. But I can't walk 12 km at 10 kmph. However, I can't imagine that I could balance on such a small, short platform, moving at 10 kmph. Even on a smooth surface. And the shape seems wrong. I'd be far more comfortable on a board. Sideways is cool, but only when leaning backward. Catching an edge is so not fun.
Unlike skateboards, the four wheels on this platform make almost a square. There's a chance that it can handle pot holes better, since three wheels will still be enough. But yeah, I share your feelings about edges.
I would get one of these for living in SF. It would make lots of otherwise unwalkable neighborhoods perfectly accessible while only using it to go uphill.
Alternatively just walk those neighborhoods and they won't feel unwalkable very shortly! My 89 year old grandmother used to walk from her house in Japantown to Chrissy Field and back, regularly--your legs get used to it and suddenly the city feels a lot more accessible.
I believe this will be most awesome on tradeshows or on large company premises.
I'd be interested to see how it can deal with gravel, rain, wind and what happens when you encounter that small step that is just a tad bit higher than the device can take.
Seems incomplete. Surely one would want simple foot controls to allow stopping without having to jump off. Or even moderate speed control.
Also having recently seen first hand how much losing ones mobility to illness, this could be a really great product for older people if it were modified into a walker that carried you. Also if it were setup as a walker for the elderly basic hand controls could be added.
Very interesting product I all be very interest to see how this develops and improves with an iteration or two.
There are parts of the video where he slows down and speeds up. Tilting forwards and backwards, maybe? I think the jumping off feature is being demonstrated more as a safety system, rather the main way you control the speed.
It's true, it looks to be better in every respect (especially price). The only downside to the Chinese electric unicycle is the size (the Japanese one fits in a backpack).
I love watching tourists crash on those things here in Barcelona ;P. I see them as being too unbalanced, compared to the small scooter bikes that are being rented as well [1]. I see the similar thing with these "platforms". The wheels almost reminds me office chairs :), and i know how bad the sidewalks are for example, not to mention holes and other objects.
>> And how we all thought of it as the new way of human transportation?
>No, I don't remember that bit.
I remember my American born English teacher back then really thinking that. I also read later years later somebody who explained that phenomenon as a reaction to 9/11, as a way for Americans to think about good news and a better future.
Mandatory quote from Paul Graham. He says they've received too much money too early, which didn't require them to work iteratively and deal with adoption, as a consequence people look like a dork on a Seagway.
It's unfortunate that we have such restrictive and inconsistent rules around the place concerning these light electric vehicles. I realize that electric bikes really push the motorbike-bike line, but this stuff is being invented and experimented on at a clip and it's hard to figure out the best form factors when the rules are all defined around what was available and popular at some point.
And, it's important to advance... All these little electric vehicles are potentially really helpful. No emissions, low energy, far less infrastructure than cars and trains. All the segway fantasies could actually come true, in some form as these things improve. They just need to keep improving the battery tech and let these guys experiment with form factor.
Here's my request for the V2: double the size and design it to be used sitting in the lotus position. It'd be a flying carpet... that flies really low.
Imagine two of these colliding head on in a mall or campus. Potential 15mph head banger. Definitely dangerous and maybe fatal. That's why these rules are proliferating. Fact is the radius in which any of these motorised mobility aids is safe is much larger than that of a pedestrian. Our legs, torsos are very strong, with dozens of muscles wired directly to our brains for minimum latency, so we can stop or dodge essentially instantly. These tools are therefore appropriate only in less densely travelled areas (factories, warehouses, etc) or on special pathways with strict traffic rules.
One question is, how fast would they have to be to be useful? Is a speed of 3-5 km/h or even slower already fine? (Maybe for people who cannot walk far due to sickness or age?)
The "double speed" interpretation of a head-on impact is incorrect. The physics don't work out that way unless one of the people has far more mass (like so much mass that they aren't using this board anyway). Two people colliding head on while moving at 6.2mph is not at all like, e.g., one stationary person getting hit by a car moving at 12.4mph. It's much more similar to getting hit by a car at 6.2mph, or jogging into a tree at 6.2mph, both of which could kill you, but neither of which likely will.
You shouldn't be getting downvoted - you're right. Doubling your speed against a brick wall quadruples the energy involved in the collision, but two equivalent objects colliding at the original speed only doubles it. If they have the same or similar mass, the energy is absorbed equally by both, and so if two equal-sized people run into each other at 10 kph, each one of them will feel an impact equivalent to running into a brick wall at 10 kph, not 20 kph.
at 10 km/h (3 meters/second, 4-5 times faster than the average walking speed), it's plausible that you could to fall off, hit your head on the pavement and... die, yes.
How fast do you normally walk? 3m/s divided by five is around 60cm/s or about 2 km/h, that's pretty slow. I walk at around 5 mph or 8 km/h, although that is a little faster than most. I think average walking speed is normally about 5 km/h so this is really only twice walking speed at best...
The simple solution is to eliminate street parking and use it for all the other better alternatives for driving. Most of the rules are there because of how incredibly dangerous cars and trucks are.
Rather than something for me to ride, I'd rather have something that I can toss things onto, that would follow behind me (like Tensor's Floating Disc).
For heavy load, they have wild cat[wildcat] and for lighter loads, they have spot [spot]. For Ussain Bolt, there is the cheetah [cheetah] that can keep up with the pace peaking at over 29 miles per hour. All these are at various stages in development and as far as I understand not ready for production.
cool concept. Put handle on it like a scooter and my Mom got a new way to get around. Oh wait, clearly, I wasn't thinking big enough. Add self-steering with collision avoidance on this deck and now you can stare at your phone the entire way from the train to the office. Google, are you listening?
134 comments
[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 192 ms ] threadNot a doctor.
Once the tech is there, the need will drive the eventual designs.
That's why I just got myself onewheel (still on the way to me). I expect it to be faster than any other mean of a transportation.
With the tiny wheels, I'd think it would be a rough ride anywhere near where I live... with the uneven sidewalks and other transitions needed.
It's amazing that the tiny battery can run 7.4 miles...
http://venturebeat.com/2015/08/07/pocket-sized-personal-tran...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UYzaWGTov0
https://vimeo.com/77716627
That said, the current ones are heavy as hell because they are all battery, I'm interested to know what the deal is with capacity / weight for this one.
The standing posture means that you're braced for a step anyway, and the speed is totally compatible with your mark I human undercarriage system. It's not like you're on a skateboard going at 30kph. Plus you're not fastened into it.
I actually think it's a really interesting and subtle piece of design. I want one. (Plus I have to admire anything that looks quite that stupid.)
But I think the non-self-balancing but still weight-sensing control scheme has a lot of promise (I've built a few of theses myself: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=49557...). I've found segway-style vehicles really twitchy to ride (since they'll literally tip over if they don't react quickly and forcefully enough), whereas basic weight sensing control is super intuitive (much more so than, say, the hand control on the Boosted boards).
The expensive lesson of the Segway: people don't want to look like a dork. It's hard to quantify exactly but only mall cops look natural on a Segway.
Humanity! F Yeah!
I'd be interested to see how it can deal with gravel, rain, wind and what happens when you encounter that small step that is just a tad bit higher than the device can take.
Also having recently seen first hand how much losing ones mobility to illness, this could be a really great product for older people if it were modified into a walker that carried you. Also if it were setup as a walker for the elderly basic hand controls could be added.
Very interesting product I all be very interest to see how this develops and improves with an iteration or two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGWR-KQlEBs
Yeah.
> And how we all thought of it as the new way of human transportation?
No, I don't remember that bit.
I almost rented one for the first time on vacation this spring... then I just walked instead.
1: http://bcnshop.barcelonaturisme.com/shopv3/en/product/21110/...
I remember my American born English teacher back then really thinking that. I also read later years later somebody who explained that phenomenon as a reaction to 9/11, as a way for Americans to think about good news and a better future.
http://www.paulgraham.com/segway.html
It's unfortunate that we have such restrictive and inconsistent rules around the place concerning these light electric vehicles. I realize that electric bikes really push the motorbike-bike line, but this stuff is being invented and experimented on at a clip and it's hard to figure out the best form factors when the rules are all defined around what was available and popular at some point.
And, it's important to advance... All these little electric vehicles are potentially really helpful. No emissions, low energy, far less infrastructure than cars and trains. All the segway fantasies could actually come true, in some form as these things improve. They just need to keep improving the battery tech and let these guys experiment with form factor.
Here's my request for the V2: double the size and design it to be used sitting in the lotus position. It'd be a flying carpet... that flies really low.
Anyone can die anywhere, you can die of an infection because of a papercut, but come on. 10km/h is not a dangerous speed.
For heavy load, they have wild cat[wildcat] and for lighter loads, they have spot [spot]. For Ussain Bolt, there is the cheetah [cheetah] that can keep up with the pace peaking at over 29 miles per hour. All these are at various stages in development and as far as I understand not ready for production.
spot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE3fmFTtP9g
wildcat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE3fmFTtP9g
cheetah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chPanW0QWhA