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Ask HN: If you could live anywhere in the world, where would you live?

18 points by maclo ↗ HN
In a recent HN post a dev asked for advice to work/live in the US and some commenters suggested trying other countries first. What if the situation is different. Let's say you are a developer and already have permanent residence status in the US, would you stay there or move to another country? Is there such thing as the best country for software developers?

30 comments

[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 74.6 ms ] thread
a3n
Probably best is to figure it out for each individual. Make a list, try them out, decide. The process will be interesting.
miguelrochefort
Canadian here.

I'd move to the US in a heartbeat.

- Access to most online services on day one (Pandora, Netflix, etc)

- Amazon.com

- 35% less taxes

- Groceries are 50% cheaper.

- Restaurants are 25% cheaper.

- Fuel is 25% cheaper

- Salaries are 200% to 300% higher (in tech)

- Housing is cheaper (on average)

- Superbowl ads

- Best TV shows

- Better health care

- More exciting politics

- Less regulation

- Better culture

- Best universities

- Stores are open longer (some are even 24h)

Too bad immigration is so difficult.

victorhn
>Canadian here. ... >Too bad immigration is so difficult.

What about TN1 ?

miguelrochefort
They won't let "Software Developers" get one. I would need to somehow demonstrate that I'm a "Computer Analyst". Doesn't seem to easy from what I read, on top of the fact that it's unreliable and arbitrary.

Also [1]:

> Canadian citizen must demonstrate an intention to return to his/her home country upon the expiration of the TN visa.

[1] http://www.canadiansinusa.com/Working-in-the-US/tn-visa.html

kat
Software Engineers are covered by TN visas though, under the 'Engineers' category. That might be easier for you instead of 'Computer Analyst'. You need a degree and a job offer (where the title is Software Engineer). I think most large software companies in the US will happily hire TN visa people. Also large companies usually have immigration lawyers on tab which makes the visa process much more reliable.
maclo
Thanks for your perspective. I don't know a lot about Canada but from what I know, I think most of what you say is true. Except:

> 35% less taxes

I'm not so sure. In a state without income tax, if you are single and make $100K, your average federal tax is 18%. In California, you probably own another 7%. So 1/4th of your income goes to tax. How about Canada?

> Better health care

Everywhere I read, healthcare in Canada can't possibly be worse than in the US. I remember a research pointed out that the per capita cost for healthcare in Canada is like half of that of the US.

miguelrochefort
> I'm not so sure. In a state without income tax, if you are single and make $100K, your average federal tax is 18%. In California, you probably own another 7%. So 1/4th of your income goes to tax. How about Canada?

According to this [1] website (for an income of $100,000 in my province):

"Your average tax rate is 35.3% and your marginal rate is 51.8%."

Add 15% sales tax on top of that.

> Everywhere I read, healthcare in Canada can't possibly be worse than in the US. I remember a research pointed out that the per capita cost for healthcare in Canada is like half of that of the US.

You read that from people who don't know. I've been waiting years for a family practician. An appointment with a specialist (i.e., a dermatologist) can easily take 6 months. You'll wait years on a list to get a non-urgent surgery. Average waiting time in emergency rooms is 21 hours. If you can't wait, you need to pay $200-300 per visit at private clinics.

In the US, a private insurance would give me MUCH better services, and might even cover non-basic treatments, eye care and dental care.

[1] http://www.tax-services.ca/income-tax-calculator-canada/

yitchelle
> - Amazon.com

Really??

miguelrochefort
What's so surprising about that?

Amazon.ca barely has 0.1% of what's available on Amazon.com, and most items are 50% to 100% more expensive there. Shipping is rarely free.

I don't think you realize how convenient being able to shop on Amazon.com is. If anything, that would be in my top 3 reasons to move.

yitchelle
This is surprising for me because access to a specific online business is not typically on a list of requirements to relocate, for me anyway.

Is there an online business, equivalent to Amazon, that is killing it in Canada?

TuringNYC
I would be surprised as well, but then i moved to the middle east. Want to buy a closet rod...fly to Dubai to get it, or pay $30 to have a $4 item shipped internationally. Want to buy a particular brand of children's clothing, pay a 150% premium.

You dont realize how good you have it until you lose it!

miguelrochefort
There's no equivalent here.

I still use Amazon.com, but it costs around $50 of shipping for each item.

AnimalMuppet
You can't get Super Bowl ads in Canada? That one's easy. Wait an hour after the game, and they're on YouTube.
dennybritz
I'm actually in that situation. I'm originally from Europe but I have permanent resident status in the US and have studied/worked there for most of my adult life. I don't understand why people on HN are crazy about moving to the US (or the bay area). It looks glamorous from the outside but it's not as great as people make it out to be. If it wasn't necessary to stay in the US to keep my resident status I'd be gone in a heartbeat. I just applied for a re-entry permit that allows me to stay away for at least 2 years, possibly longer.

I believe that location is becoming increasingly irrelevant for software developers. Distributed teams are gaining popularity and there are lots of remote positions. So the question for me isn't really what's the "best" country for developers, but rather what's the country that fits my personality and cultural values the most? That answer will be different for everyone.

So far I've lived in (not travelled) Europe, Brazil, Thailand and Japan. Personally I'd move back to Japan if I could (currently can't since I was just there for 6 months). Japan sucks for software developers if you work for a Japanese company, but if you work remotely it's a great place to live. It's cheap (compared to the bay area), food is amazing, lots of stuff to do, and I like the culture. Thailand is another good place to live. You have a luxurious lifestyle on little money. An apartment that'd be $6000/month in the bay area is $1000/month in Thailand. Also lots of good food, nightlife, and beaches. South Korea is next on my list but I'm expecting the lifestyle to be quite similar to Japan.

In the list of countries I want live in the US probably wouldn't make the top 10. I love California, but there are so many other amazing places around the world.

maclo
I like the sound of living in Japan and Thailand. What type of visa did you use to stay in those countries? Travel visa?
dennybritz
Yes.

Depending on where you're from you can stay in Japan either 3 or 6 months at a time. Some people leave for a few days and then come back but that could be risky as your next visa may be denied.

Thailand has various visa options and is less strict with their policies. Many people keep renewing their tourist visas for years.

artartart
I'm currently in Bangkok and wanted to add that if you keep on the low and spend your money here there are no problems. It sucks as soon as you try to speak up, buy property, make money from this place, or do anything where the rule of law is important. You will miss the rule of law, i.e. republic, of well-established nations.
dennybritz
I'm currently in BKK as well. Hit me up if you want to grab a drink, email is in my profile.
jimsojim
Hey denny, I can tell you South Korea is great. I am studying here at a Uni. In particular, I would recommend seoul (ofc), its a great place to be in. Although, traditionally the Koreans are known for their hardware, the market for software developers is increasing here at a very promising rate. Night life is awesome. Food is great, too. Although culturally I had some problems, but as you mentioned you've been to Japan and enjoyed their culture, you won't have any problem in adjusting here. And as you might expect Koreans (chicks) are very fond of foreigners haha (if it matters to you at all?).

Hit me up if you ever plan to visit here.

maclo
What is the visa situation like in Korea for non-students?
jimsojim
Well, if you're US passport holder you can stay upto 90 days without visa (business/travel). For the rest of the cases, you need to get one. If you get a proper job, employers will sponsor your visa.
tmpforareason
Silicon valley, tech beside one of the best places to live!
pmdulaney
I've always lived in California, so that's what I know. Carpinteria, Santa Barbara, San Luis Obispo, Santa Cruz, Fort Bragg, Ferndale are all nice (though the last two might prove too wet). I've never been to the continent of Europe, but I've always imagined the Pyrenees and Northern Italy would be nice.
kleer001
> If you could live anywhere in the world, where would you live?

On the coast, near a large port city. Hopefully in a college town, or at least a town that's in the middle of gentrifying. I really like mountains in the near distance too. English speaking populace would be best, as that's the only one I know. Good local food, decent libraries and infrastructure. Would be best if sex work were legal or at least decriminalized.

Sydney Australia?

bbcbasic
Having kids, Australia where I live now is probably one of the best places.

However UK and EU countries in general offer cheaper cost of living whilst being able to earn as much (sometimes more) as a software dev.

Not so keen on USA but would move for an awesome gig or if I have a startup idea that requires ycombinator or similar. Would have to be SF/SV if USA.

I'd also consider Singapore and Japan.

If no kids I'd consider a remote job then go live somewhere where I'd want to travel to, so really anywhere in the world is in question assuming it is safe enough :-)

Gustomaximus
I'm surprised more people don't hit the Bahamas/Caymans or lower tax locations in nice tropical locations. At least for pre-kids years.

I've lived in Australia, England and Norway. Each has it's benefits and I could be happy in any of these. I've chosen to put roots down in Sydney. I was born here so perhaps that was the calling. My Norwegian partner and I also felt it was the best location to raise kids. It would have been Norway for almost every rational reason when we listed options but the winter is just too long. If I was young and single again I'd chose London. It's a great pre-kids city but I want my family to grow-up more free-range than they would be there.