The website is pretty and all but there is no information anywhere. How much does it cost? How long is the lease for? I would hope I don't need to make an account just to get that information.
I'm the perfect target for this kind of service — I've been living as a "digital nomad" since July last year, primarily using Airbnb for accomodation, working in cafes and coworking spaces.
The website seems really light on information (at least without signing up) — how much is it going to cost?
$1600/mo for a bedroom with en-suite bathroom. Also included are a communal kitchen, co-working space and perfect wifi/internet signal and speed. Some places have a pool :)
This sounds like a good idea, but the price seems high for the location you're offering.
I'm not trying to be overly critical here, but what else are you bringing to the table? At $1600 in SE Asia, I can get my own 1bdrm apartment, coworking space, and eat out for every meal. I'm currently in Bangkok - I pay $750 for a very large, serviced 1 bdrm, $150 for a coworking membership, and couldn't spend $800 on food if I tried. Admittedly, Bangkok is about the cheapest example - but that is probably why there are so many nomads here.
Bali is just the first location we launched and Miami being the next we open soon. Many more to come, any regions in particular you'd like to see one opening up?
But why would a user want a subscription if they're going to spend a month or months at locations that don't warrant the price? I don't want to subsidize the nicer places if I'm not currently there.
The price is intended to be across a global network and there are more locations coming. The space in Bali is completely brand new with contemporary architecture, and an adjacent restaurant and open rooftop space where there are regular acroyoga jams and capoeira classes.
If you want to find an individual room or villa to have by yourself, there are cheaper alternatives in the area. But the reality is that the inventory of larger properties -- say 20 to 50 units -- that are large enough to support an internal community, is much smaller across the whole island and the world, frankly speaking. The whole point of the project is community living in multiple parts of the globe, not being on your own or moving day-to-day from different Airbnbs (which is totally fine too!) So it really depends on your personal preferences of what kind of living space you think is right for you. (And lots of people have lots of different preferences, and that's OK.)
$1600 will get you a room in more than 10 locations by the end of the year, that's where the real value is. I am actually staying the the Ubud location at the moment. It's very well done, the community is great and location is just right. This is not something you can find on Airbnb.
So can you occupy rooms in more than one location at the same time?
No?
Then it's just a really expensive room with high booking/cancellation flexibility and customer lock-in (you won't pick another room in a city if you've already paid for this).
So this seems to be basically just a premium version of what a youth hostel line membership gets you. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I can imagine that the business model might work.
(If the answer is actually "Yes" then I'm surprised and 1600$ doesn't seem so bad.)
Here is one scenario that I see happening - "I leave my $2500 apartment in NYC and I put my freelance developer job in my carry-on. I buy my flights and pay rent for a year at The Roam. I want 2 months in Bali, 4 months in Japan and 6 months Miami." I am taken care of and I don't have to worry about searching for the right location or meeting the right people. It seems pretty good to me.
$1600 is roughly an 8 night stay in Miami, at a decent hotel. I think this is a great deal for me as I can stay anywhere they are available when I want. I already pay over $2000 for a single bedroom apartment in downtown Fort Lauderdale - and I am stuck here in a lease for a year.
Looks pretty similar to the room in Ubud a motorbike tout found me for about $6 per night on a short term basis.
That said, most of the startup oriented stuff in Ubud seems to peg its prices to the Western world rather than local norms: there's coworking space in the City of London that costs about the same as Hubud, for example. Guess it depends on whether the community is worth paying the sort of premium the average middle class Australian holidaymaker won't.
Again, the price is intended to be across a network. There will be another U.S. location in the next few months, and then more to come after that.
For Ubud, it's a two-dozen unit, newly-opened boutique hotel with contemporary design and architecture, rooftop open space for dance, capoeira and Bahasa Indonesia or Bahasa Balinese language classes, along with an adjacent vegan, raw food restaurant.
If you want to be on your own, find your own Airbnb or have a private home, that's great. There are lots of options in Ubud, and the rest of Bali. People should find the housing that is right for them. The point of this is to have a larger community with events, communal dinners, activities, and involvement with local institutions and leaders. The space is already evolving as is. Have had two dance classes this week, two acro jams, and a capoeira class coming on Sunday. People are working on their own projects and startups, and organizing nights for talks.
The plan is to have the price be fixed initially, but if we discover seasonality in movement across the network, then we might have to adjust prices based on that later. We'd like to keep it flat for as long as possible.
More feedback is obviously welcome though! This is an experiment to see if we can get people to move in groups to less obvious locations, and then to contribute or integrate with local communities. I personally dislike the "nomad" term, even though I've been technically living this way for 10 years.
Like others have mentioned, you keep saying "boutique hotel with contemporary design" but if you're going after the common nomad, they don't care too much. I've been location independent, mostly in se asia, for over a year now and had almost exactly what you mention here, co-living with multiple nomads in a beautiful villa in Ubud, for around $400/mo (one quarter of what you have here). I understand it is part of a bigger plan but as a potential customer, I see no reason to use your service for the few months a year I want to spend in a cheap location like Asia, and would rather unsubscribe during that time. That is probably why you will require a yearly membership, or something of that sort :)
I was surprised that most of the open jobs are not remote, I expected the company to be very open about this and possibly even promoting/preferring this, sort of eating your own dog food.
It should be cheaper, but more importantly, we've got to own a share.
It should [also] work like that: you deposit say $200k, you get live in any location described, later on you can sell your share at market price that factors in all the property Roam owns multiplied by your share.
It's like instead of buying a home, you buy a slot in Roam.
Yes, that is a very cool future vision. :) Difficult to execute at this particular moment in time, so seeing if people will bite at location-independent leases is a first step.
There is Hapimag of Switzerland, who's been doing that for holidays in Europe for quite some time. Nearly impossible to get rid of the shares we inherited though.
That's just a timeshare, right? Timeshare initial deposits are notoriously bad investments; the ongoing fees are sometimes closer to break even vs. other housing/hotel choices, but with less flexibility.
(You can buy timeshares on eBay for close to $0)
From their FAQ: "
Is Hapimag a timeshare company?
In legal terms, Hapimag is a public limited company whose shareholders are simultaneously the users of the offer. In this respect, Hapimag is a user- and not profit-oriented cooperative of like-minded people. Hapimag members purchase rights of residence for all Hapimag resorts. This idea has been successful for over 50 years. Hapimag is considered to be the inventor of points-based rights of residence and enjoys the reputation of a professional, trustworthy provider."
I know a few people who are (separately from one another) working on the same concept. Good luck. The idea is right, and there can be multiple winners in the space. Paying a monthly subscription to be able to "live" in a few major cities is inevitable. The world is getting smaller every day and this is very feasible now.
I spent about 3 years full time on Airbnb, living in various places (Shanghai, Berlin, NYC, DC, SF, LA...). I wouldn't call myself a "digital nomad", but I think I'm familiar enough with this concept to formulate an opinion:
- Without a network of locations, what you have is effectively a boutique hotel (an expensive one at that).
- If you're starting with Ubud at 1,600 USD/month, how will you make the economics work once you open pricier locations (e.g. Miami).
- User experience is really bad. Even after getting some hints from the comments here, I struggled to sign up and still have absolutely 0 idea of what's happening or what I should I do after I did.
- No info upfront is pretty shady. You're literally expecting to sign people up with a logo and a blurry picture.
- No Instagram pictures? Why linking it then? Why linking to AngelList too? How's that relevant to the average user?
- Who is the user here? People with very high disposable income who are into Capoeira and creating startups?
The list goes on.
Overall, I'm just confused. It looks like a boutique hotel for yoga/health fanatics, at a high price and with little to no information to explain the value.
If you're serious about it:
- Hire somebody to rethink your user experience,
- Rethink your pricing,
- Maybe wait until you have at least a second location before calling it a network.
If anyone is interested in co-living around the world with other people in tech, Hacker Paradise will be in Bali from March 13 - April 9 with ~30 people.
We've been up and running for a year and a half now, organizing 1-3 month trips for developers, designers, and entrepreneurs all over the world (Bali, Costa Rica, Barcelona, Tokyo, etc.).
Before Bali, we'll be in Vietnam. Afterwards, we'll be in Thailand for a month and then in Portugal for the summer.
Check out our site for more info:
www.hackerparadise.org
Even if this is a global network, if this is your game it seems like just sticking around Central America and Southeast Asia and you can live at a fraction of the cost with plenty of amenities.
44 comments
[ 5.4 ms ] story [ 101 ms ] threadSome of you might know this from last year when we put the idea out there with a wonderfully unpronounceable name http://www.thecaravanserai.co ...
The website seems really light on information (at least without signing up) — how much is it going to cost?
EDIT: Just took a quick look at Airbnb for Indonesian rentals. I found this: https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/5021049 It's cheaper than a room from Roam.
If you want to find an individual room or villa to have by yourself, there are cheaper alternatives in the area. But the reality is that the inventory of larger properties -- say 20 to 50 units -- that are large enough to support an internal community, is much smaller across the whole island and the world, frankly speaking. The whole point of the project is community living in multiple parts of the globe, not being on your own or moving day-to-day from different Airbnbs (which is totally fine too!) So it really depends on your personal preferences of what kind of living space you think is right for you. (And lots of people have lots of different preferences, and that's OK.)
No?
Then it's just a really expensive room with high booking/cancellation flexibility and customer lock-in (you won't pick another room in a city if you've already paid for this).
So this seems to be basically just a premium version of what a youth hostel line membership gets you. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I can imagine that the business model might work.
(If the answer is actually "Yes" then I'm surprised and 1600$ doesn't seem so bad.)
That said, most of the startup oriented stuff in Ubud seems to peg its prices to the Western world rather than local norms: there's coworking space in the City of London that costs about the same as Hubud, for example. Guess it depends on whether the community is worth paying the sort of premium the average middle class Australian holidaymaker won't.
For Ubud, it's a two-dozen unit, newly-opened boutique hotel with contemporary design and architecture, rooftop open space for dance, capoeira and Bahasa Indonesia or Bahasa Balinese language classes, along with an adjacent vegan, raw food restaurant.
If you want to be on your own, find your own Airbnb or have a private home, that's great. There are lots of options in Ubud, and the rest of Bali. People should find the housing that is right for them. The point of this is to have a larger community with events, communal dinners, activities, and involvement with local institutions and leaders. The space is already evolving as is. Have had two dance classes this week, two acro jams, and a capoeira class coming on Sunday. People are working on their own projects and startups, and organizing nights for talks.
The plan is to have the price be fixed initially, but if we discover seasonality in movement across the network, then we might have to adjust prices based on that later. We'd like to keep it flat for as long as possible.
More feedback is obviously welcome though! This is an experiment to see if we can get people to move in groups to less obvious locations, and then to contribute or integrate with local communities. I personally dislike the "nomad" term, even though I've been technically living this way for 10 years.
I was surprised that most of the open jobs are not remote, I expected the company to be very open about this and possibly even promoting/preferring this, sort of eating your own dog food.
It should [also] work like that: you deposit say $200k, you get live in any location described, later on you can sell your share at market price that factors in all the property Roam owns multiplied by your share.
It's like instead of buying a home, you buy a slot in Roam.
Of course you can make shares tiered.
(You can buy timeshares on eBay for close to $0)
From their FAQ: " Is Hapimag a timeshare company?
In legal terms, Hapimag is a public limited company whose shareholders are simultaneously the users of the offer. In this respect, Hapimag is a user- and not profit-oriented cooperative of like-minded people. Hapimag members purchase rights of residence for all Hapimag resorts. This idea has been successful for over 50 years. Hapimag is considered to be the inventor of points-based rights of residence and enjoys the reputation of a professional, trustworthy provider."
- Without a network of locations, what you have is effectively a boutique hotel (an expensive one at that).
- If you're starting with Ubud at 1,600 USD/month, how will you make the economics work once you open pricier locations (e.g. Miami).
- User experience is really bad. Even after getting some hints from the comments here, I struggled to sign up and still have absolutely 0 idea of what's happening or what I should I do after I did.
- No info upfront is pretty shady. You're literally expecting to sign people up with a logo and a blurry picture.
- No Instagram pictures? Why linking it then? Why linking to AngelList too? How's that relevant to the average user?
- Who is the user here? People with very high disposable income who are into Capoeira and creating startups?
The list goes on.
Overall, I'm just confused. It looks like a boutique hotel for yoga/health fanatics, at a high price and with little to no information to explain the value.
If you're serious about it:
- Hire somebody to rethink your user experience,
- Rethink your pricing,
- Maybe wait until you have at least a second location before calling it a network.
We've been up and running for a year and a half now, organizing 1-3 month trips for developers, designers, and entrepreneurs all over the world (Bali, Costa Rica, Barcelona, Tokyo, etc.).
Before Bali, we'll be in Vietnam. Afterwards, we'll be in Thailand for a month and then in Portugal for the summer.
Check out our site for more info: www.hackerparadise.org
Also happy to answer questions here.